Hobbs had torn labrum in shoulder

[bradmahn]

What is with all the Hobbs hate? Look yeah he does get abused every now and then due to his size but he holds his own for the most part. Name another corner on our current roster who could have done better at #2.

I think people have a pretty unrealistic idea of what number two cornerbacks do in this league, and how effective they are at stopping the receivers they are up against (and most aren't playing against a team's number one receiver for most of two games, i.e., Hobbs against Plax in week 17 and that other game). Hobbs plays a lot against the best wide receivers (before his injury in '06 he was shadowing Laverneus Coles and Lee Evans, and doing so more than effectively). He has exceeded expectations, if those expectations are reasonable considering the role he has been asked to meet. But fans want to remember a busted team coverage against Pittsburgh that allowed Najeh Davenport to score a ridiculous touchdown, or Hobbs falling down to allow a 47-yard TD to Parrish, or the 35 yard reception where he had excellent coverage but an high ball and giving up eight inches to one of the better receivers in the league led to a reception... do you know why? Because when he has good coverage WE DON'T SEE IT. The reason why Asante Samuel (who plays with the same cushion, has just as much safety help, actually gets beaten for TDs more often) is widely considered "way better" is because of his gambles. Hobbs doesn't intercept as many passes as Samuel, but you know what? at this point in Samuels's career (ie., after three seasons) he wasn't picking off as many passes, either, and wasn't doing even close to as good a job as Hobbs has. In fact, it took Hobbs's insertion in the starting lineup to make a **** secondary in '05 look remotely serviceable, and that included the sixty million dollar man.

 

[captain stone]

Maybe KR for a starting DB isn't such a good idea. Kind of like FB for the franchise DL.

It was at the time (a 108-yard KOR for TD), and has been in the past (see: Mike Haynes, Raymond Clayborn, et. al.), but will probably no longer be in the future for Hobbs.

I feel that this revelation underscores our need for a legitimate, permanent KR/PR. Imagine the collective apoplexia should Wes Welker be felled while returning a punt. (Though I wish that a reverse by Welker had been attempted on the last KOR of the SB. Just another example of the coaching staff's failure to think with any imagination throughout the game.)

I realize that this is a question for the draft board, and I'm positive that it will be asked therein during the coming weeks, but: Who are the potential Returners in April's draft? Then again, why wait for the draft: Who are the potential Returners in Free Agency? I know of one whom I would love to see as a member of the NEP - Mewelde Moore. As Jean-Luc Picard might say: Make it so.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Maybe KR for a starting DB isn't such a good idea. Kind of like FB for the franchise DL.

Post of the year.

 

[Afterlifemobile-86]

In fact, it took Hobbs's insertion in the starting lineup to make a **** secondary in '05 look remotely serviceable, and that included the sixty million dollar man.

You're 100% right.....God 05!!! Don't remind me!! Only in New England would a 10-6 season feel like an 8-8 one.....

 

[HSanders]

Hobbs doesn't intercept as many passes as Samuel, but you know what? at this point in Samuels's career (ie., after three seasons) he wasn't picking off as many passes, either, and wasn't doing even close to as good a job as Hobbs has. In fact, it took Hobbs's insertion in the starting lineup to make a **** secondary in '05 look remotely serviceable, and that included the sixty million dollar man.

THANK YOU! Asante was drafted in 2003 and came to what became a VERY GOOD DEFENSE with GOOD CB play...so he could learn as the nickel CB that whole rookie year. Hobbs was thrown into the starting lineup of what was a horrible horrible defense for most of his rookie year, and held his own. 2006 and 2007 he was playing with significant injuries on much worse defenses than Asante played on in his year 2 in 2004 (YET ANOTHER GOOD PATS DEFENSE). How long did it take for Asante to develop into a guy who you thought of as a good starting CB? About 3 HEALTHY years!

As to the last TD in the SB...if you blitz and do not get to the passer, Champ Bailey would probably look pretty pathetic too. Hey wait, Den had no pass rush this past year, how DID Bailey look...even with a pretty decent CB on the other side in Bly?

I agree with the poster who said Hobbs looks better in man coverage. He seems to be a smart kid, so I am hoping film study will help him improve in zone. As to when the last time I saw Pats CBs play press...I am thinking 2004!!!!!!

I am glad he had Andrews do the surgery too. The guy is the best in the biz. He did Brees' surgery.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

No offense, but what the hell are you talking about? An INC stops the clock.

It isn't about giving up yards and running the clock. Itis about stopping the opposing team. An incomplete pass is one less down the opposition has to use. You only get 4 downs to make 10 yards and the odds of making thise yards go decrease with every incompletion.

I never said that Ellis was the second coming of Chris Canty (the DB not the DL), I just said he was the worst starting corner in the league. There might be a worse one somewhere, but when he retires...

The Pats "bend but don't break" defense in aimed at keeping the ball in the middle of the field, keeping the clock running and stopping the long sideline passes. Ellis gets thrown at more often than Assante because he is an easier completion. Assante is a nice kid who is going to make a killing in FA because Ellis is on the other side. Assante had a bad Super Bowl, he dropped the game winner. Ellis had a bad Super Bowl, he gave up the game winner. All you people who seem to love his play are delusional. He isn't that good. I don't know who teaches him his technique or whether he is doing what is expected of him. I suspect that he was the best of a bunch of mediocre options.

You don't know what I know or don't know, but my guess is that nobody on this board knows what the coaches think of his play. I am willing to wait until training camp to see if Ellis gets replaced. My guess is that they will try like hell to find somebody better. My opinion is that it won't be that difficult to find that DB. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you are. Time will tell.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Originally Posted by jbb9s
Maybe KR for a starting DB isn't such a good idea. Kind of like FB for the franchise DL.

Post of the year.

You are aboolutely right, make Ellis a full time KR and find a full time CB either im free agency or the draft.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1074767&srvc=patriots&position=1

“He was in a lot of pain. The (groin) injury became incredibly painful,” said the source. “You could see him limping off the field a couple of times because of it. Nobody knew anything about the shoulder during the season. It’s not Ellis’ way to talk about stuff like that. He just pretty much played in a lot of pain. And that’s not to make excuses. That touchdown pass in the Super Bowl, he won’t use that as an excuse, but I can tell you, the double move by Burress, it wasn’t to his advantage with the groin.”

I could hear the violins playing as I read this article. Damage control is only needed to repair damage. I haven't heard many coaches come out in his defense. As a matter of fact Dean Peese was the guy I stole the line about defenses not being designed to give up completions from. His opinion of Ellis could be described as tepid. I heard in either on 'eei or Felger's show.

Who do you think the "source" is?

 

[dhamz]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

Just because the offense didn't do anything useful with Ellis' great INT return doesn't mean it didn't happen. Suggesting that he had a terrible Super Bowl is as far off the mark as you can get.

I don't think anyone ever argues that Hobbs isn't great with the ball in his hands.

That said, I really can't give him a lot of credit for the pick itself outside of catching the ball when it bounced to him. That shouldn't be taken for granted (see Meriweather, B.) but Hobbs was badly beaten on the play. He was lucky that he got the chance to make the play.

A good pass by Eli and it was an easy first down and Smith is likely 1 on 1 with a LB/S for a TD. Even with the low throw, an NFL WR should make that catch every single time. Smith didn't and Hobbs to his credit made the most of the poor Giant execution but it was hardly a play that highlights his ability to cover.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

I don't think anyone ever argues that Hobbs isn't great with the ball in his hands.

That said, I really can't give him a lot of credit for the pick itself outside of catching the ball when it bounced to him. That shouldn't be taken for granted (see Meriweather, B.) but Hobbs was badly beaten on the play. He was lucky that he got the chance to make the play.

A good pass by Eli and it was an easy first down and Smith is likely 1 on 1 with a LB/S for a TD. Even with the low throw, an NFL WR should make that catch every single time. Smith didn't and Hobbs to his credit made the most of the poor Giant execution but it was hardly a play that highlights his ability to cover.

Badly beaten? How do you come up with that?

 

[dhamz]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

Badly beaten? How do you come up with that?

I watched the play. He was not in position to either make a play on the throw or make a tackle. That is badly beaten.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

I watched the play. He was not in position to either make a play on the throw or make a tackle. That is badly beaten.

watch the play again.

 

[onegr8om]

OK, so after all 10 pages(so far) and countless arguments its clear that nobody can't state WHY Hobbs is a good cornerback. As you all know, i'm not sold as Ellis being a starting corner on this team(Especially if he has to be the #1 Corner next year, That would be SCARY). BUT, I'm NOT just a Hobbs hater. I truly like the man. I do admire his toughness and truly BELIEVE he CAN be better. Asante Samuel took 4 years to become as good as he his and maybe(hopefully) Ellis Hobbs will eventually do the same. My ONLY argument is that it seems like if ANYONE doubts Ellis, Dispute's his greatness or questions his play here at patsfans.com, they get attacked. But when someone simply asks WHY Ellis Hobbs is a good cornerback worthy of all the love he gets here(Besides the fact he's simply a New England Patriot) nobody can come up with a good reason. Not ONE game changing play. Thats all. I'm done with this post. Great Debate everyone. I appreciate the fun football talk.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

It isn't about giving up yards and running the clock. Itis about stopping the opposing team.

The Pats "bend but don't break" defense in aimed at keeping the ball in the middle of the field, keeping the clock running and stopping the long sideline passes.

Whatever man.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, so after all 10 pages(so far) and countless arguments its clear that nobody can't state WHY Hobbs is a good cornerback. As you all know, i'm not sold as Ellis being a starting corner on this team(Especially if he has to be the #1 Corner next year, That would be SCARY). BUT, I'm NOT just a Hobbs hater. I truly like the man. I do admire his toughness and truly BELIEVE he CAN be better. Asante Samuel took 4 years to become as good as he his and maybe(hopefully) Ellis Hobbs will eventually do the same. My ONLY argument is that it seems like if ANYONE doubts Ellis, Dispute's his greatness or questions his play here at patsfans.com, they get attacked. But when someone simply asks WHY Ellis Hobbs is a good cornerback worthy of all the love he gets here(Besides the fact he's simply a New England Patriot) nobody can come up with a good reason. Not ONE game changing play. Thats all. I'm done with this post. Great Debate everyone. I appreciate the fun football talk.

Do you realize how ridiculous this post is? You dodged every question and you turn that around on others. As for 'game changing plays', did you forget the interception in the first Giants game? It's not as if it's a tough one to remember. You've brought essentially nothing to this discussion except unsubstantiated claims that he falls down, probably on purpose, when he gets beaten.

 

[emoney_33]

OK, so after all 10 pages(so far) and countless arguments its clear that nobody can't state WHY Hobbs is a good cornerback. As you all know, i'm not sold as Ellis being a starting corner on this team(Especially if he has to be the #1 Corner next year, That would be SCARY). BUT, I'm NOT just a Hobbs hater. I truly like the man. I do admire his toughness and truly BELIEVE he CAN be better. Asante Samuel took 4 years to become as good as he his and maybe(hopefully) Ellis Hobbs will eventually do the same. My ONLY argument is that it seems like if ANYONE doubts Ellis, Dispute's his greatness or questions his play here at patsfans.com, they get attacked. But when someone simply asks WHY Ellis Hobbs is a good cornerback worthy of all the love he gets here(Besides the fact he's simply a New England Patriot) nobody can come up with a good reason. Not ONE game changing play. Thats all. I'm done with this post. Great Debate everyone. I appreciate the fun football talk.

He is very good in man coverage.
He has good technique.
He has good speed and quickness.
He has good ability to play a receiver and make a play on the ball.
He is very intelligent and can be seen putting himself in positions to make plays when other teammates blow coverage (see the almost great play against Davenport touchdown where Hobbs was not supposed to be anywhere near Davenport but coverage broke down).
He is extremely tough.
He is strong.
He is a good tackler.
As BB and Seymour have said "HE IS GOOD FOR THIS TEAM".


Funny how you claim you only remember him "falling down" when he's fallen down what once or twice this year?

Why don't you do me a favor now, go find all the team's #1 wide receivers and tell us how they did against Hobbs. And then go tell me how these wide receivers did against other teams secondaries. After that go watch the amazing job Hobbs did on CJ in the Bengals game. Hobbs is a helluva lot closer to a "shutdown corner" than Samuel is. Asante is never given the task of locking down the team's best receiver, and rarely gets man assignments. This is to play to his strengths and to benefit the entire team. Hobbs is assigned the #1 receiver in man coverage a lot more frequently.

They are both good, they both have their strengths and weaknesses (not being the same though), and they are both GOOD for this team. The money Samuel may want however may not be good for this team.

Hobbs is the patriots best cornerback, has been for a few years now. He and Samuel are both talented and both bring something different to the table. Samuel will cost more than he is worth.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What is with all the Hobbs hate? Look yeah he does get abused every now and then due to his size but he holds his own for the most part. Name another corner on our current roster who could have done better at #2.

It's the killer combination of arrogance and ignorance. Which is why you can't reason with them either. They know what they know because they just know it. I call it Felger-itis.

You will often find they are the same armchair geniuses who fully accept that when we win it's because our offense executed so well their grandmother could have called the plays and when we lose it's because "skippy", which is whomever the OC at the time is, is worthless as a playcaller. That is known as NEM-itis. They can't pull the same crap on defense, since it's BB's baliwick, so when we lose on D it's select worthless players Bill for some reason persists (apparently due to alien forces) on putting on the field and never deficiencies in the scheme some dogged opponent found ways to capitalize on. The same players who held opponents to less than 17 PPG all season irrespective of scheme. Most of them need to go...and be replaced with legit pro bowlers or at least guys whose names these fans recognize from watching select highlight reels. :rocker:

 

[tobias funke]

Great post, man (emoney). Too bad it will be ignored by the intended recipient.

edit: two great posts that will be ignored. you guys are on a roll

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Re: Hobbs was Banged Up

Whatever man.

You must be a reporter

 

[patsfan47]

He is very good in man coverage.
He has good technique.
He has good speed and quickness.
He has good ability to play a receiver and make a play on the ball.
He is very intelligent and can be seen putting himself in positions to make plays when other teammates blow coverage (see the almost great play against Davenport touchdown where Hobbs was not supposed to be anywhere near Davenport but coverage broke down).
He is extremely tough.
He is strong.
He is a good tackler.
As BB and Seymour have said "HE IS GOOD FOR THIS TEAM".


Funny how you claim you only remember him "falling down" when he's fallen down what once or twice this year?

Why don't you do me a favor now, go find all the team's #1 wide receivers and tell us how they did against Hobbs. And then go tell me how these wide receivers did against other teams secondaries. After that go watch the amazing job Hobbs did on CJ in the Bengals game. Hobbs is a helluva lot closer to a "shutdown corner" than Samuel is. Asante is never given the task of locking down the team's best receiver, and rarely gets man assignments. This is to play to his strengths and to benefit the entire team. Hobbs is assigned the #1 receiver in man coverage a lot more frequently.

They are both good, they both have their strengths and weaknesses (not being the same though), and they are both GOOD for this team. The money Samuel may want however may not be good for this team.

Hobbs is the patriots best cornerback, has been for a few years now. He and Samuel are both talented and both bring something different to the table. Samuel will cost more than he is worth.

I liked this post a lot although I'm not 100% sure that Hobbs is better than Asante. I can't remember when it was but NFL network was covering the pats and showed combine tape of Hobbs in his backpedal during a drill and then changing directions, I think it was Mike Mayock saying how good his footwork was and how smooth his hips were. He even went so far as to call Hobbs a technician. His technique is very sound and he will be a very good player for us next year.