Welcome to PatsFans.com

Hmmmmmmmm

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by KontradictioN, Jan 10, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    1. Where are all of the people today that were trying to say that this defense was good last week? Are they around? I would love to hear from them about how the defense is still good. I would love for them to point out the Pats over-inflated defensive ranking. I would love to hear that the Ravens scored so much because of a strip-sack and an INT. I would love for them to, afterward, try to explain how a team that was basically playing without the use of it's quarterback managed to score 21 more points. Where are you guys? Here are some fun facts: 234 yards rushing, and 10/16 on third down. This was against a team WITHOUT THEIR QUARTERBACK! This defense is BAAAAAAD. It's been bad all year, and it was bad today. Were we ranked high? Sure. But it sure as hell wasn't due to the fact that we were shutting down high quality offensive competition.

    2. An orgy of errors, starting in the offseason, have taken us up to this point.

    3. Letting Seymour go without a capable back-up that can play well against the run and the pass was, quite obviously, a mistake. When we first traded him to the Faiders, I posted that this would only be a good move if someone stepped in which made his loss almost invisible. I stated that Belichick had to have seen someone who was capable of shutting down the run and being effective in the pass game step up (such as a Myron Pryor) which was why he let him go, that BB would never do something like that without first making sure things were in place that would ensure that the defense would not miss a beat. I was wrong. We were absolutely dreadful against the run and not much better against the pass.

    4. We all knew Brady was injured going into the game, but I wouldn't be suprised to hear that he was further injured on that Ray Lewis pancake sack. Sure, he hasn't been "himself" all year. But he was even less than that today, and it wasn't because of the Ravens' defense.

    5. We really could have used Galloway today. The guys that suck Belichick's teats and worship every move he makes, no matter how wrong, can disagree all they want. Going into the season, Galloway was really our only capable WR3. In the couple of games he played, he showed that he was still able to get behind the defense with his speed. The problem with Galloway was that he was, essentially, an old dog trying to learn new tricks. In retrospect, we should have simplified the offense for him (God forbid!) and eased him into things. Starting with Week 1, he should have only been allowed to run routes that he was comfortable with. The loss of Galloway hurt... badly. Like it or not, Sam Aiken is a career special teamer. There is a reason for that. That reason is that being on special teams is the only thing that he truly excels at. He really had no business as a WR3 in our offense. 20 receptions for 326 yards and 2 TD's showed that. With Welker and Moss getting all of the looks from the defense, Aiken should have had a career year. He did not. Galloway, though old, was at least capable of beating single coverage. Letting him go was a mistake.

    6. How anybody could still defend the decision to play the big three (Brady, Moss, Welker) last week, which ultimately resulted in Welker blowing his ACL and MCL, is beyond me. The decision was a bad one then, and it still is a bad one.

    7. I would really love to see the defense move into a 1-Gap 3-4 defense next season. REALLY love it. Of course, it won't. But it's just something that I would like to see. IMO, the linebackers that we currently have would be much more effective with one less gap responsibility.

    8. It's time to concentrate some day one draft picks and possibly some free agent moves on the offensive line. Last year, I was on the "draft Oher" bandwagon (yet, I know what we got for not drafting him) only to see the team move oyt of the first round, despite there being talent available, and into the second round. This season, we shouldn't ignore the offensive line. I do believe that Vollmer will be good. However, Kaczur can stand to be upgraded. The fact that he got an extension means absolutely nothing to me. He's good depth and that's about it. Neal is older. Koppen has done well, but he does have a tendency to struggle against bigger NT's. Today, he got absolutely ran through on a couple of plays. Mankins is good and should be re-signed. And Light, like Neal, is older. Brady is the franchise. If we're not going to spend money to protect him then his career isn't going to last much longer.

    9. It's time to open up the checkbook, wisely, on linebackers. Mayo has a bright future with this team, but Guyton could very easily be upgraded. As far as I'm concerned, he should not be starting. He should only be on this team as a back-up. I'm not sure what we have with McKenzie, but I don't think we should take any chances. Adalius Thomas should be let go in the offseason, and probably will be. He's a great athlete. He always has been. But the amount of money we're paying him seems almost exorbitant for his production. I mean, defend him all you want, but the bottom line is that he should be much, MUCH better in this defense than 34 tackles with 3 sacks (none since Week 12). TBC has been solid in the passing game this season, but is still a liability at times in the run game. He should be kept as only a pass specialist. I sincerely hope that we're active in the offseason when it comes to the LB corps.

    10. Speaking of "linebackers" the Derrick Burgess trade was not very good.

    11. I would really like to see the linebackers used a lot more in the passing game. Watson is a good receiving tight end. However, with the bad O-Line play this season, he has had to be in on the blocking game more often. If we improve the offensive line play, it will open up yet another dynamic to the passing game. I do not want to see Baker re-signed next year.

    12. The bright side: next season, Brady should be better. He certainly was not himself all year. Next season, Brady will have had one year on the job recovery from the two tears that ended his 2008 season. Edelman looks to be a very effective slot receiver. Kevin Faulk is as tough as nails.

    13. I certainly do not think our window has closed. But, if another year of poor decisions are made, it will close.

    I'm sure this will be a popular thread. :rolleyes: I can't wait to be told how I'm wrong and how there is absolutely nothing wrong with the team...
     
  2. teknos1s

    teknos1s Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Other than the start of the game with the long run the defense wasnt "BAAAAAD" this game. Honestly, all the ravens TD's came from 30 yards out. They were given HORRIBLE field position. be real.

    the problem today was offense not being able to get anything done. putting the defense in a spot where they just couldn't win
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  3. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    Yeah, twice. This defense is bad, buddy. They allowed 21 points to a team whose quarterback was taken out of the gameplan. That's BAAAAAD.
     
  4. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree with everything you said and hope # 13 isn't true.
    We do need a good off season with FA and the draft or we are in trouble.


    13. I certainly do not think our window has closed. But, if another year of poor decisions are made, it will close.
     
  5. Patdown93

    Patdown93 Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Offensive line needs to be upgraded badly. I do think the defensive problems are mostly from lack of a consistent pass rush... although that doesn't really excuse today.

    That was a mix of turnovers and well... I wish I knew.
     
  6. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    11,161
    Likes Received:
    42
    Ratings:
    +132 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    The defense let up 2 bad drives all day. And of those drives, the one in the 2nd half came with Baltimore starting at midfield. I'm not saying they were great, but they weren't as bad as you're saying. The offense did them no favors with 4 turnovers that let Baltimore start in our territory. How can you pin those points on the defense. And after Brady's 3rd quarter pick was returned to our 20, who made the red zone stop to keep it a 2 posession game?? The defense wasn't good today but they gave our offense more than enough chances to get back into it, and the offense didn't do anything. Not even off a great pick by TBC that gave us great field position, and the Edelman return that gave us the ball in Bmore territory. They did NOTHING... they hung the defense out to dry today.
     
  7. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,323
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +14 / 1 / -0

    If I had to pick one of the two for the blame. I would take the offense, hands down. Both units have to have some cohesion to make for a great or even good team. This offense hasn't been able to put together timely drives or make key plays when need be. Sure, the D should get some blame. If your passing out blame pie I think the O gets a 70% piece.....
     
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,245
    Likes Received:
    174
    Ratings:
    +496 / 37 / -7

    You can choose to believe that the patriots lost roday because of the defense and lost during the year because the defense produced less than expected. I would strongly disagree with bot assessments. The Defense failed to save the offense from their collapses. The defense was not the 2003 and 2004 defense.

     
  9. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,321
    Likes Received:
    105
    Ratings:
    +253 / 2 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    11. I would really like to see the linebackers used a lot more in the passing game.

    ?????
     
  10. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,921
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    There is window and as long with BB and Brady we have a chance.

    today moss played a bit but man look at GB and Cardinals. they had legit 5 receivers. We have 1 or 1/2 as he was injured from the way he was running.then 2 QB who are learning the WR position and 1 SPl team guy.really you are saying we could not matchup. i always believed the 06 was a bad group but i think today was definitely there



    What LB are you talking about we run a 3-4 with 1 good LB in Mayo.
    Banta would be a great 3rd down guy ,thomas is done ,burgess the best OLB we ever had according to BB sucks. come on we got a 1st for seymour and gave a 2nd and 5th for this junk.Guyton is again a 3rd down guy as he is not phsical enought to play on early downs.


    Cannot wait for the people who tell me i am idiot for wanting a downhill big brusing ILB to run stuffing and inside crashing of gaps.


    Vollemer has some games on tape and you can see that asap he came on the RT side they isolated him and ray started to crash the B gap. Johnson was scott free to do what ever as i think vollmer is not good at identifing his Man. Move him to the right gaurd and draft another tackle. He has the size to smash some 3-4 ends

    DL from strength has become a weak spot. Now they double vince and move him to the right with TY knowing that Green is smaller and can be run on .Its complicated by banta playing there. green is 290and banta 260 against a tackle and gaurd.Compare to last year when seymour at 310 and Thomas at 270 caused trouble. They physically moved the right side line every down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  11. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    You destroy your point by stating that "the defense wasn't good today". Without having to defend in the passing game, the defense should have been the closest thing to a shut down defense today. They haven't been that all year. What happens when we have to play against more than just three good offenses in a season? Because, by my count, that's all we played this season.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  12. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    I meant tight ends. Not sure why I posted "linebackers".
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    LOL, you can always tell who didn't read passed the first paragraph of a post.
     
  14. teknos1s

    teknos1s Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    by no means is the defense good - but i wouldn't say its bad either - honestly its mediocre which isnt good enough - but not BAD. with a bad defense we wouldn't even be in the playoffs. today the D played o.k other than the big play. your putting your D in a tough spot when the other time is starting at your 17, 42, 9, 22, 50 - ouch
     
  15. The Coon

    The Coon On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    Agree with the OP. This defense has some good players but as a whole unit, they are bad. The Ravens were able to get 5-6 yrds at will on first down and had far more 3rd and shorts than 3rd and longs. This defense didnt improve this last month, they were just playing bad competition like id thought.

    The offensive line needs major improvements. OL and LBs are the weakest links (and we have some good players on both units) but we also have guys on those units that shouldnt be starting (Kaczur and Guyton being 2 of the obvious)

    We need to use all of our picks this year to upgrade OG, OT, LB,DL, WR, RB,FB,TE. Just thinking about it, we had a ton of needs this offseason. Belichick and the scouting dept. better be on their game.
     
  16. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    11,161
    Likes Received:
    42
    Ratings:
    +132 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I never said this defense was a championship defense. It's a defense that can contain a team like B-more who has an above average offense to around 17-20 points under normal circumstances and hope our 'explosive' offense can score 20+. And they could have done that if we didn't hand the Ravens the ball in our territory 4 times. What more could the defense have done... maybe stop them at the end of the 2nd quarter, that MAY have led to 3 points but even that we don't know considering the offense couldn't move the ball more than 15 yards on the previous drive. The offense blew this one.
     
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    DE is a HUGE need. Dare I say that it's just as big of a need as RG is?
     
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    43,496
    Likes Received:
    792
    Ratings:
    +2,718 / 134 / -97

    Disable Jersey

    There's a lot in your thread I'm in agreement with. Unfortunately, there will be homers who go ostrich, so we'll hear the same crap about this team for another year, unless Belichick does a much better job of both front office work and coaching.
     
  19. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,323
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +14 / 1 / -0

    You make a great point. Also I think it's worth noting that this D needed time to mature and gel, gain confidence. They were abandoned by their offense in the most critical formative moments. Jets-game 1, Indy, Miami-game 2, Houston and Denver. I am sure I missed one or two. This offense was terrible to watch this year. Long gone are the days of a pass catching FB and the play action pass.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    28,017
    Likes Received:
    788
    Ratings:
    +2,454 / 33 / -54

    No Jersey Selected

    The offense sucked a big one today as well. I thought that would have been obvious given my post, but I guess I should make it more obvious. However, the defense should not be excused. One would think it's easy to shut down a one dimensional offense. Apparently, for the 2009 Patriots, it is not. Should I post the statistics the defense managed against the three good offenses we have faced this season to make a point?

    Look, the offense was dreadful this year and in this game. They have a lot to improve on. However, the defense this year was just flat out bad. Baltimore was given 14 points today from our offense. They still earned 21 against our defense. That's way too many considering the defense only had defend against one aspect of the offense: the run game.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>