Has the NFL caught up with Belichick?

[The_Riddler]

Now go back and do this for every single other team. 80% will be worse. You can't look at past draft picks in a vacuum, because then every team would look horrendous.

Why don't you do the same analysis for another team and come back with the some facts instead of just saying 80% of other teams have done worse, prove that, can you ?

And in your analysis, factor in the number of picks, that's key here, the number of picks and the relative miss percentage per pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Which are BB's value rounds.

 

[The_Riddler]

So after cherry picking all the negatives while ignoring as many positives as possible, how do you explain why the Pats have not fallen off the map like other SB participants such as the Rams, Bucs, Raiders, Cardinals, Panthers, Colts, etc.?

Two words my friend, and this is the truth.

TOM BRADY

Brady has made this team, this franchise and yes this coach, you take Brady of this team, no one's talking about this man.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Two words my friend, and this is the truth.

TOM BRADY

Brady has made this team, this franchise and yes this coach, you take Brady of this team, no one's talking about this man.

You can say the same thing about the best player on any team, so that argument is meaningless.

By the way, how do you explain 2008?

 

[BendButDontBreak37]

So after cherry picking all the negatives while ignoring as many positives as possible, how do you explain why the Pats have not fallen off the map like other SB participants such as the Rams, Bucs, Raiders, Cardinals, Panthers, Colts, etc.?

Two words my friend, and this is the truth.

TOM BRADY

Brady has made this team, this franchise and yes this coach, you take Brady of this team, no one's talking about this man.

100% true, we're finding that since 08 the rest of the team has generally regressed. Cassell couldn't get those 11 wins with this team. So Brady is as much the pats as Manning is the Colts. Belichick is lucky to have had him.

 

[BendButDontBreak37]

Two words my friend, and this is the truth.

TOM BRADY

Brady has made this team, this franchise and yes this coach, you take Brady of this team, no one's talking about this man.

You can say the same thing about the best player on any team, so that argument is meaningless.

By the way, how do you explain 2008?

And I'll also add that Josh McDaniels had a lot to do with 08 success as well.

 

[Sciz]

Why don't you do the same analysis for another team and come back with the some facts instead of just saying 80% of other teams have done worse, prove that, can you ?

And in your analysis, factor in the number of picks, that's key here, the number of picks and the relative miss percentage per pick in Rounds 2 and 3. Which are BB's value rounds.

Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: Insider
It's slightly out of date, but the Pats can't have fallen too far from first this past offseason.

And why does Belichick need to be penalized for picking more? With the rare exception of the picks like the ones used on Solder and Chung, he's gained all of these picks by giving up other picks.

 

[The_Riddler]

You can say the same thing about the best player on any team, so that argument is meaningless.

By the way, how do you explain 2008?

That year, the Patriots not only had tremendous talent around Cassell to protect his ass, the Patriots had one of the easiest schedules in the history of their franchise that year. Check it out, that is fact.

Tom Brady has made BB what he is today, I will always believe that.

Tom Brady has made alot of people alot of money, from cast off WRs that he made into players who garnered big contracts to yes, even his head coach.

The greatness of Tom Brady cannot just be measured on the 3 rings, it's so much more.

 

[jsull87]

Let's see

2004: Having passed on Stephen Jackson, took Wilfork who fell in the draft.... then could have added Karlos Dansby with 2nd #1. Everyone was looking for LB to help the D. Nope we'll take another TE, Ben Watson, when we had Graham already. Followed by Marquise Hill(RIP) - Rd 2 bust

2005: Makins9hit), followed by Hobbs in Rd 3(ugh)

2006: traded down for Maroney(bust). then traded up in rd 2 for chad Jackson(total Bust). Then, rd 3 &4 picks TE in each - both busts. LOL So, Graham, Watson, Thomas, Mills.

2007: Merriwhether(gone). Yea who needs a 3-4LB like Lamarr Woodley with 2nd #1 pick, or even trade down. But we get a nice DT in Kareem "dont call me Abdul Jabbar" Brown

2008: Wheatly and Crable, K. Oconnell, Wilhite - busts galore

2009 : Passes on clay Matthews when infact LB was a need. Patrick Chung(TBD), Brace(Bust), Butler(Bust) - Brace and Butler were picked 41 & 42, so back to back busts. Vollmer(hit). Tate(Bust) - COULD HAVE HAD MIKE WALLACE who Steelers took right after Tate!!! McKenzie(bust). Ornberger(bust)

2010: McCourty (TBD); Gronkowski(hit) Hernandez(hit) Spikes(looking like a bust); cunningham(looking like a bust when could have had Dunlap. with his buddy Urban Meyer, BB should have had a good read here). Taylor Price(looks like a bust just like Tate...injured and never makes it to a game now 2nd year in)


So, basically in last 6 yrs what they have to show is this
OL - 2 hits (Mankins, Vollmer)
TE - 2 hits (Gronk, Hernandez)
WR - 0 hits
RB - 0 hits

DL - 1 hit (Wilfork)
DE - 0
LB - 0
DB - 0 (McCourty , Chung TBD and BM was cut before finishing his rookie contract)


So, after all this wheeling and dealing over last half a dozen years what we have to show are 2 TE's, and 1 DL. For a coach hailed as Defensive genius pretty interesting how pathetic a record in recognizing talent and drafting D players, especially given ALL the draft picks he loads up every year with.

Looks like reality is a lot different than the "genius" who wears a hoodie.

I enjoy your scoring system of unless you are a pro bowl caliber player your not a hit.

I also enjoy the skewed rankings of Mccourty (one pro bowl.. rookie season. 1st 3 games this year he hasn't played to well granted) chung and Merriweather (2 pro bowls 4 year starter in the NFL) as tbd or not counting yet people of the same time frame e.g brace, price, spikes, Cunningham and busts.

Your argument is true tho pats should be the only team in the NFL that drafts good players. You could do better right.. or at least name 16 teams that have drafted better than us in the same time frame... making us below average right? wait wasnt there that article in the offseason saying statistically pats are one of the best drafters in the league over bb's tenure? Stats and "reality" be damned... I WANT CLAY MATHEWS

After every loss do we have to repeat this cr@p?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

So after cherry picking all the negatives while ignoring as many positives as possible, how do you explain why the Pats have not fallen off the map like other SB participants such as the Rams, Bucs, Raiders, Cardinals, Panthers, Colts, etc.?

Show me other positives from the drafting. I dare you to show me facts. Need to get you myopic eyes fixed...read where i list hits vs busts.

Talk about cherry picking SB participants........you kinda forgot about those STEELERS, PACKERS, SAINTS. they've fallen off the cliff, yup. :bricks:

 

[PushnPencils]

I never said I was 'one of the enlightened ones' here, but if you want to learn something then I would suggest you pay attention to jays52, unoriginal, italia44, Metaphors, PatsNutME, Jack Bauer, and several others such as Box o Rocks and mayoclinic that unfortunately no longer comment here - most likely because they got sick and tired of the headaches they got from reading drivel such as yours that now permeates this site.


Tom Landry going 17-30 in his last three years could be construed as the NFL catching up with him.

Chuck Noll going 51-60 over his seven years in Pittsburgh could be construed as the NFL catching up with him.

Don Shula making the playoffs just twice in eight years could be construed as the NFL catching up with him.


Bill Belichick going 37-14 during a period of time which included one season
without the team's starting QB, and two years of which can best be described as a complete rebuilding of the team cannot in my opinion be construed as 'the NFL caught up with him'.

The guy is not god, the guy is not a genius, and he does not always make the right decision. But put any other coach in that position and we're looking at four straight losing seasons since '07.

I disagree with you. I'll tell you why momentarily. But your statement bolded above bothers me. The reason is it is not a statement based on fact. Not that I have a problem with that....as I respect everyones opinion....

But I get destroyed all the time for such statements and no one can prove me wrong, other than saying I'm wrong because they know football and I don't.

Technically I haven't taken apart the game of football like some. But I love the game.....watched hundreds of plays both Patriot and others. I understand the game...I can see why Brady is a better QB than Eli Manning. I can see what makes Ray Lewis great. I watch and see the individual battles on the field and see who is getting beat and who is setting the place on fire.

What bothers me most is someone will destroy an opinion I have....then post it as their own a couple of weeks later.

Back to my disagreement with you. Belichick has created a situation where his fingers are involved in all parts of the team.

IN MY OPINION...our greatest weakness at the moment is an ongoing lack of talent on the defensive side of he ball. Awful. The draft is a crapshoot but free agency and managing current personnell is not.

He is responsible...Maybe personnel decisions are not his forte...

So as much as I also respect some of the flks you mentioned above....like Belichick...none are genius', god....nor are they right all the time.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

His defenses don't fool anyone and over the past couple years has looked like swiss cheese. I mean, you look at all the great coaches and it always seems the game passes them by at some point. We need a Rob Ryan or some other DC like that to shore up this defense.

It will always be 11 on 11. There have been dominant offenses, and dominant defenses.
There are just so many twists you can place on your 11, that won't be "figured out".... after that, it's execution.
And expectations of the opponent, and execution on their behalf.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

I enjoy your scoring system of unless you are a pro bowl caliber player your not a hit.

I also enjoy the skewed rankings of Mccourty (one pro bowl.. rookie season. 1st 3 games this year he hasn't played to well granted) chung and Merriweather (2 pro bowls 4 year starter in the NFL) as tbd or not counting yet people of the same time frame e.g brace, price, spikes, Cunningham and busts.

Your argument is true tho pats should be the only team in the NFL that drafts good players. You could do better right.. or at least name 16 teams that have drafted better than us in the same time frame... making us below average right? wait wasnt there that article in the offseason saying statistically pats are one of the best drafters in the league over bb's tenure? Stats and "reality" be damned... I WANT CLAY MATHEWS

After every loss do we have to repeat this cr@p?

Point is they should have much better record of drafting given the picks he has hoarded last half a dozen plus years.

Keep drinking the coolaid. Statistically this is piss poor drafting and results are showing last 4+ years.

Trying to offset quality with quantity, and then having to scramble and pickup retreads like Gabriel, Burgess, Galloway has been a failure.

Yea, every loss.....How about that choke job in AFCC vs Colts in 2007, or how about the choke jon in SB vs Giants, or how about the choke job vs Ravens in 2009, or how about the choke job vs Jets in 2011

 

[Sciz]

Statistically this is piss poor drafting

You haven't even come close to proving this.

 

[Ring 6]

Point is they should have much better record of drafting given the picks he has hoarded last half a dozen plus years.

Keep drinking the coolaid. Statistically this is piss poor drafting and results are showing last 4+ years.

Trying to offset quality with quantity, and then having to scramble and pickup retreads like Gabriel, Burgess, Galloway has been a failure.

Yea, every loss.....How about that choke job in AFCC vs Colts in 2007, or how about the choke jon in SB vs Giants, or how about the choke job vs Ravens in 2009, or how about the choke job vs Jets in 2011

So your conclusion is that this team is a bunch of chokers who have no heart?
Does BB get credit for the tremendous effort it must have taken in personell to build a team so good that every time it loses in the playoffs its only because they choked?
I mean apparently this team would have won 3 of the last 4 SBs if only they didnt choke, and 4 in a row if Brady getting injured fits your defintion of choking as it would seem it should.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

You haven't even come close to proving this.

Put up or shut up now...I will give the benefit - i will picks busts from 1-4 rounds only, and you can have 7 rounds(include Cassell as a hit) to comeup with the hits.

From 2003 to 2010. Exclude 2011 as its too early to judge.......and if you want me to go back to start of BB Era, i will add those years also.

Busts....

E. Wilson
B. Johnson
D. Klecko
B. Watson
M. Hill
Gus Scott
D Reid
Cedric Cobbs
Elliss Hobbs
L Maroney
C Jackson
David Thomas
Garrett Mills
B Merriwhether
Kareem Brown
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell
Wilhite
Wheatley
Brace
Butler
Tate
McKenzie
Ohrenberger
Spikes
Price
Cunningham

For count, that 28 players that amounted to nothing with the Pats.

Prove your side now

 

[RayClay]

Point is they should have much better record of drafting given the picks he has hoarded last half a dozen plus years.

Keep drinking the coolaid. Statistically this is piss poor drafting and results are showing last 4+ years.

Trying to offset quality with quantity, and then having to scramble and pickup retreads like Gabriel, Burgess, Galloway has been a failure.

Yea, every loss.....How about that choke job in AFCC vs Colts in 2007, or how about the choke jon in SB vs Giants, or how about the choke job vs Ravens in 2009, or how about the choke job vs Jets in 2011

You mentioned 5 coaches, yet conveniently ignored that BB has as good or better record as every one of them for 2 years, plus 3,4,5 and 10, though none coached that long.

You draft to put a winning team on the field, so you are just full of it and ignore evidence that contradicts your rants.

I'd be happy to pull up that post again, took me a while to compile it.

Every year, every coach you named. Pwned, as they say.

 

[Sciz]

Hits to busts ratio is completely irrelevant. Compare number of hits by the Patriots to number of hits by other teams. Find 10 teams that have more hits over the last how ever many years than the Patriots.

 

[RayClay]

Put up or shut up now...I will give the benefit - i will picks busts from 1-4 rounds only, and you can have 7 rounds(include Cassell as a hit) to comeup with the hits.

From 2003 to 2010. Exclude 2011 as its too early to judge.......and if you want me to go back to start of BB Era, i will add those years also.

Busts....

E. Wilson
B. Johnson
D. Klecko
B. Watson
M. Hill
Gus Scott
D Reid
Cedric Cobbs
Elliss Hobbs
L Maroney
C Jackson
David Thomas
Garrett Mills
B Merriwhether
Kareem Brown
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell
Wilhite
Wheatley
Brace
Butler
Tate
McKenzie
Ohrenberger
Spikes
Price
Cunningham

For count, that 28 players that amounted to nothing with the Pats.

Prove your side now

They contributed to losing seasons? Quit being a child, and address what you mean by failed drafts in the light of BB out winning every single coach you mentione as recently as the last two years. You're a fraud.

 

[PushnPencils]

Put up or shut up now...I will give the benefit to stick to 4 rounds, and you can have 7 rounds(include Cassell as a hit) to comeup with the hits.

From 2003 to 2010. Exclude 2011 as its too early to judge.......and if you want me to go back to start of BB Era, i will add those years also.

Busts....

E. Wilson
B. Johnson
D. Klecko
B. Watson
M. Hill
Gus Scott
D Reid
Cedric Cobbs
Elliss Hobbs
L Maroney
C Jackson
David Thomas
Garrett Mills
B Merriwhether
Kareem Brown
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell
Wilhite
Wheatley
Brace
Butler
Tate
McKenzie
Ohrenberger
Spikes
Price
Cunningham

For count, that 28 players that amounted to nothing with the Pats.

Prove your side now

The scariest part of the list is Scott, Reid, Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather...and hopefully we won't have to add McCourty to the list.

How does that group of players impact what we see today?

 

[jays52]

Nevermind how patently insane some of that list was. It's pretty clear now that we're dealing with a crazy person. Not crazy in a good Off The Grid kinda way. Like a guy who will vote for Michelle Bachmann kind of crazy.