Has the NFL caught up with Belichick?

[DonBlackmon55]

Hits to busts ratio is completely irrelevant. Compare number of hits by the Patriots to number of hits by other teams. Find 10 teams that have more hits over the last how ever many years than the Patriots.

Yea, i figured you'd weasel out now. This Pats we're talking about not other teams. Other teams have not had as many draft picks.

When facts came out you hightailed

 

[JackBauer]

Put up or shut up now...I will give the benefit - i will picks busts from 1-4 rounds only, and you can have 7 rounds(include Cassell as a hit) to comeup with the hits.

From 2003 to 2010. Exclude 2011 as its too early to judge.......and if you want me to go back to start of BB Era, i will add those years also.

Busts....

E. Wilson
B. Johnson
D. Klecko
B. Watson
M. Hill
Gus Scott
D Reid
Cedric Cobbs
Elliss Hobbs
L Maroney
C Jackson
David Thomas
Garrett Mills
B Merriwhether
Kareem Brown
Wheatley
Crable
O'Connell
Wilhite
Wheatley
Brace
Butler
Tate
McKenzie
Ohrenberger
Spikes
Price
Cunningham

For count, that 28 players that amounted to nothing with the Pats.

Prove your side now

I think you need some help on your definition of a bust.

 

[RayClay]

Yea, i figured you'd weasel out now. This Pats we're talking about not other teams. Other teams have not had as many draft picks.

When facts came out you hightailed

L out freakin L

Name 5 coaches in the NFL you'd take over Belichick.

Ok,

Tomlin, McCarthy, Payton, Ryan, Harbaugh

Last two years

Belichick 24-8
Payton 24-8
Harbaugh 21-11
McCarthy 21-11
Tomlin 21-11
* = Career
*Ryan 20-12

3 years

Belichick 35-13
*Harbaugh 32-16

4 years

Belichick 51-13
*Tomlin 43-21

5 years

Belichick 63-17
*Payton 49-31
*McCarthy 48-32

10 years

Belichick 3 Super Bowl championships, zero losing or even seasons, ****loads of wins

2 zero
3 zero
4 zero
5 zero
6 zero

 

[sbpatfan]

I think you need some help on your definition of a bust.

Anyone that isn't a first ballot HFer is a bust.

 

[JMarr]

And who is the idiot putting together the personnel having a boat load of draft picks every year? Instead of drafting impact players he keeps trading down picking up scrap heap players like Cunningham, Butler, Brace, chad Jackson, Spikes

Oh let me guess that must be the genius, whose Defense after 3 weeks is on pace to set all time worst record for total yards, passing TD's allowed

Wouldn't trade Belichick for any coach in the NFL, past or present, and no human can be right 100% of the time. That being said,

1. In hindsight it does look like letting Meriweather AND Sanders go was a serious, serious error--Seymour-esque, only worse. Oh well, at this point all you can do is try to plug the hole(s) and/or try to improve with what you got. Sign Sharper? Dowling at FS?....who knows. Chung coming back will help a lot.

2. With all due respect to Patchick and some others, I do agree with your take on trading back in the draft and the hoarding of draft picks BB seems to love to do. (even though he's traded picks for vets at times recently as well).

This is football, not economics. I get the "keep the team competitive over the long haul" argument, but that doesn't seem to win championships. I'm greedy like that, and Brady isn't getting any younger.

 

[Sciz]

Yea, i figured you'd weasel out now. This Pats we're talking about not other teams. Other teams have not had as many draft picks.

When facts came out you hightailed

No, it's that you expect me to prove point B when I'm arguing point A. You even tried a second time (bolded) to say my point and failed.

My point is not that the Patriots draft more hits than busts.
My point is not that the Patriots draft fewer busts than other teams.

My point is that the Patriots have drafted as many "hits" as the top 20% (top 6 teams or so) in the NFL. You have done absolutely nothing to counter that.

And your definition of a bust is a joke. Ellis Hobbs, for example, was a starting CB for 49 games. That's not a bust. And even then, you leave out 2011 for being "too soon" to evaluate, but want to evaluate 2010 already.

 

[jays52]

I think you need some help on your definition of a bust.

I think it's similar to a fuzziness scale. For example the let's just throw a name out there arbitrary "bust" label such as Spikes (who, if most can recall was a vital piece of last year's defense) gets what I call a mouse bust. The mouse busts are easily stored in ones pocket while migrant farming, but tend to be frail. Some more middle of the road busts ie a five year starting member of the team are bunny fuzzy. Bunnies are harder to catch than a mouse but are quite fuzzy. They are, however quite frail much like the mouse. Then there's the Chad Jackson or nice head of hair bust. So damn fluzzy it leads to sensory overload and a quick death.

 

[Tunescribe]

Classic bandwagon fans. Click on Patsfans.com after a loss and weep. Yes, Rob Ryan or some other DC will do a better job on defense then Bill Belichick.....................

No. PatriotSpy is a classic TROLL.

 

[RayClay]

If you have a top record every year using street free agentds, your drafts and acquisitions are successful. It's about winning, not filling out a bingo card.

What round was Welker drafted in?

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Decaf man. Have you forgiven the Pats for passing on Rice yet? I'm not going to argue the Matthews thing with you because there's no point. I could lay down the most eloquent, fact based post and you would just scream louder. There's no point. I also didn't say trade downs, I said pick volume. There's a difference. Relax my friend.

Passed on Junior Seau and traded down for 2 #1 picks...Chris Singleton and Ray Agnew. Both busts.

 

[Dufflebagz]

Passed on Junior Seau and traded down for 2 #1 picks...Chris Singleton and Ray Agnew. Both busts.

:trolls::ban?::idontgetit::banned2::blahblah: :violent:

That just about sums up my feelings about you

 

[Ron Sellers]

Show me other positives from the drafting. I dare you to show me facts. Need to get you myopic eyes fixed...read where i list hits vs busts.

Talk about cherry picking SB participants........you kinda forgot about those STEELERS, PACKERS, SAINTS. they've fallen off the cliff, yup. :bricks:

The quantity or percentage of draft pick 'busts' is irrelevant because every team starts with the same number of draft picks (seven). What the team does with those draft picks matters; that also includes both good trades of picks (Wes Welker, Randy Moss) and bad trades of picks (Burgess, Alex Smith, Greg Lewis).


But if you want to compare teams, fine; let's go through the first of your three cherry picked - oh excuse me, impartial teams.

Positive Draft Picks:
2000: Plaxico Burress, Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans
2001: Casey Hampton, Kendrell Bell
2002: Chris Hope, Larry Foote, Brett Keisel
2003: Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor
2004: Ben Roethlisberger
2005: Heath Miller, Chris Kemoeatu
2006: Santonio Holmes, Willie Colon
2007: Lawrence Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, Matt Spaeth
2008: Rashard Mendenhall
2009: Evander Hood, Mike Wallace
2010: Maurkice Pouncey

Many of those on the above list such as Spaeth, Colon and several others would merit derision as a bust if they played for the Patriots, but I'm trying to be objective here.

Other Draft Picks:
2000: Kendrick Clancy, Hank Poteat, Danny Farmer, Tee Martin, Chris Combs, Jason Gavadza
4 years combined as starters in the NFL

2001: Mathias Nkwenti, Chukky Okobi, Rodney Bailey, Roger Knight, Chris Taylor
0 years combined as NFL starters

2002: Kendall Simmons, Antwaan Randle El, Verron Haynes, Lee Mays, LaVar Glover
5 years combined as NFL starters

2003: Alonzo Jackson, Brian St Pierre, JT Wall
0 years combined as NFL starters

2004: Ricardo Colclough, Nathaniel Adibi, Bo Lacy, Matt Kranchik, Drew Caylor, Eric Taylor
0 years combined as NFL starters

2005: Bryant McFadden, Trai Essex, Fred Gibson, Rian Wallace, Shaun Nua, Noah Herron
1 year combined as NFL starters

2006: Anthony Smith (you surely remember him, right?), Willie Reid, Orien Harris, Omar Jacobs, Charles Davis, Marvin Philip, Cedic Humes
1 year combined as a starter (by the esteemed Smith)

2007: Ryan McBean, Cameron Stephenson, William Gay, Dallas Baker
2 combined years as an NFL starter

2008: Limas Sweed, Bruce Davis, Tony Hills, Dennis Dixon, Mike Humpal, Ryan Mundy
0 combined years as an NFL starter

2009: Kraig Urbik, Keenan Lewis, Joe Burnett, Frank Summers, RaShon Harris, AQ Shipley, David Johnson
1 combined year as an NFL starter

2010: Jason Worilds, Emmanuel Sanders, Thaddeus Gibson, Chris Scott, Crezdon Butler, Stevenson Sylvester, Jonathan Dwyer, Antonio Brown, Doug Worthington
0 combined years as an NFL starter

2011: one starter; four on roster; two released




Bottom line: the Pats draft record doesn't look quite so bad once you have some perspective, does it?

 

[Boltzzfan]

:trolls::ban?::idontgetit::banned2::blahblah: :violent:

That just about sums up my feelings about you

lol great!

 

[Boltzzfan]

just a thought, I don't think BB has been pasted up by the rest of the NFL, maybe he just knows his offense is the best in the league, that over the past few years he's been "getting younger" like many teams try. And for the time being is hoping the Pats O can carry the D while he fine tunes it. Don't forget your D is young, and didn't have a full summer camp, don't get all emo after 3 games.

 

[RayClay]

Passed on Junior Seau and traded down for 2 #1 picks...Chris Singleton and Ray Agnew. Both busts.

Do you do this comedy act on the road? You're moaning about the 1990 draft and calling a 10 year veteran with 22.5 sacks and 448 tackles a bust?

That's 21 years back you went for that, Rod Rust, fer Crissake.

Hey, they drafted Jim Nance in the 19th round, that was a pretty good deal, huh?

 

[vyrago]

His defenses don't fool anyone and over the past couple years has looked like swiss cheese. I mean, you look at all the great coaches and it always seems the game passes them by at some point. We need a Rob Ryan or some other DC like that to shore up this defense.

Oh Gawd, not this again.

 

[FalconHeavy]

L out freakin L





Last two years

Belichick 24-8
Payton 24-8
Harbaugh 21-11
McCarthy 21-11
Tomlin 21-11
* = Career
*Ryan 20-12

3 years

Belichick 35-13
*Harbaugh 32-16

4 years

Belichick 51-13
*Tomlin 43-21

5 years

Belichick 63-17
*Payton 49-31
*McCarthy 48-32

10 years

Belichick 3 Super Bowl championships, zero losing or even seasons, ****loads of wins

2 zero
3 zero
4 zero
5 zero
6 zero

I'm not questioning BB's record or legacy but 2 straight home loss in play offs is kind of annoying / worrisome and you can attribute it to this D big time and rapid fire offense.

with such an impeccable record, still not a single win in play offs

pats O looks like a damn fantasy football stats the beginning 2007

 

[TomPatriot]

If you have a top record every year using street free agentds, your drafts and acquisitions are successful. It's about winning, not filling out a bingo card.

What round was Welker drafted in?

Sometime after the 7th Round.

Stephen Neal and Joe Andruzzi also say hello.

 

[BigMike]

Do you do this comedy act on the road? You're moaning about the 1990 draft and calling a 10 year veteran with 22.5 sacks and 448 tackles a bust?

That's 21 years back you went for that, Rod Rust, fer Crissake.

Hey, they drafted Jim Nance in the 19th round, that was a pretty good deal, huh?

OP is trollin' ...................

 

[condon84]

Let's see

2004: Having passed on Stephen Jackson, took Wilfork who fell in the draft.... then could have added Karlos Dansby with 2nd #1. Everyone was looking for LB to help the D. Nope we'll take another TE, Ben Watson, when we had Graham already. Followed by Marquise Hill(RIP) - Rd 2 bust

2005: Makins9hit), followed by Hobbs in Rd 3(ugh)

2006: traded down for Maroney(bust). then traded up in rd 2 for chad Jackson(total Bust). Then, rd 3 &4 picks TE in each - both busts. LOL So, Graham, Watson, Thomas, Mills.

2007: Merriwhether(gone). Yea who needs a 3-4LB like Lamarr Woodley with 2nd #1 pick, or even trade down. But we get a nice DT in Kareem "dont call me Abdul Jabbar" Brown

2008: Wheatly and Crable, K. Oconnell, Wilhite - busts galore

2009 : Passes on clay Matthews when infact LB was a need. Patrick Chung(TBD), Brace(Bust), Butler(Bust) - Brace and Butler were picked 41 & 42, so back to back busts. Vollmer(hit). Tate(Bust) - COULD HAVE HAD MIKE WALLACE who Steelers took right after Tate!!! McKenzie(bust). Ornberger(bust)

2010: McCourty (TBD); Gronkowski(hit) Hernandez(hit) Spikes(looking like a bust); cunningham(looking like a bust when could have had Dunlap. with his buddy Urban Meyer, BB should have had a good read here). Taylor Price(looks like a bust just like Tate...injured and never makes it to a game now 2nd year in)


So, basically in last 6 yrs what they have to show is this
OL - 2 hits (Mankins, Vollmer)
TE - 2 hits (Gronk, Hernandez)
WR - 0 hits
RB - 0 hits

DL - 1 hit (Wilfork)
DE - 0
LB - 0
DB - 0 (McCourty , Chung TBD and BM was cut before finishing his rookie contract)


So, after all this wheeling and dealing over last half a dozen years what we have to show are 2 TE's, and 1 DL. For a coach hailed as Defensive genius pretty interesting how pathetic a record in recognizing talent and drafting D players, especially given ALL the draft picks he loads up every year with.

Looks like reality is a lot different than the "genius" who wears a hoodie.

Too much truth in this post. Can't possibly process.......