Ha Ha A$ante $amuel$

[Deus Irae]

Agreed. But I could not care less about 16-0. As I watched the season progress it seemed like a slow motion train wreck. As the season reached December the 07 Pats looked weaker vs the enemy vs past years juggernaughts which played better late in the season. Opposing DCs once shock and awed began to experiment with effective schemes against the Pats. The flukey win over the Ravens (not that I didn't enjoy watching it) and the tough final season W at the Meadowlands vs the Giants seemed darkly foreboding to me.

And all said SB wiffs and all, it would be great to have Asante on the Patriots right now, contract details aside.

I think that most rational people can look back at the Samuel and Hobbs situations, and subsequent team success/failure, and see that both players should have been retained, although the amount of money Samuel got ended up making that impractical. Also, the irony of the Super Bowl is that the Patriots' defense spent the year struggling at safety and with linebacker coverage, while the defensive line and the cornerbacks were the strength. Then Asante decides to ignore BB's famous "just do your job" mantra, an entire season is undone with a fluke play as a result, and the cornerback position is suddenly in flux.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Only problem with that theory was they tried to and the money they offered to each was deemed insulting because they both had delusions of grandeur. In a capped league you can't give in to those and hope to succeed. They brought Mason in that offseason to let Deion know that there was 4/$20M available for a #1 WR. They offered Givens the same 5/$18.5M that Houston offered him. They wisely didn't match Tennessee's idiotic offer of 5/$24M...

Asante was offered a deal in the offseason before 2006 for reportedly $4.5M per. He was insulted although pundits were claiming after that season he had no trade value based on his performance in a Harrison-less secondary. Ellis Hobbs beat him out for the LCB slot in camp, and he only got it back after Ellis broke his wrist and managed to somehow remain available for duty only in a cast... By the end of that season as his INT's reached personal record best double digits, he was being offered $5.5-6M per. But by then he wanted top 3 money.

They probably sould have traded him under the tag but I doubt there was much interest as teams were waiting to see if he was legit. Philly guessed wrong and a touch of buyers remorse is setting in. A top three CB makes at least one if not two or all three of the plays he miscalculated on in that superbowl... Asante gambled he would feast on Eli in that Superbowl, and we lost as a result. We kept him under the tag and LOST. So please stop making him out to be the missing link ever since... We'd have been better off today if they'd flipped him in 2007 for a future draft pick because that record setting offense was what got us to that superbowl and absent it Asante Samuel wasn't a difference maker in 2007.

you can spend another 3 paragraphs justifying it, but...........the fact remains that branch would have been a difference-maker in 2006......so one could argue that he WAS worth the extra money....that is if you value winning the SB.......branch shot his way out of town and took the money.......and the only thing that angers the homers is that branch managed to wield power over BB

I don't put samuel in the same light, but the anyone laughing at samuel's success or lack of is pretty pathetic considering the amount of money samuel has already gotten paid between his deal and the franchise year here......he has 2 SB rings and a ton of money.........if his career ended now, he is pretty well set and has had a more complete career than most will ever have.

 

[alamo]

you can spend another 3 paragraphs justifying it, but...........the fact remains that branch would have been a difference-maker in 2006

Just because you state it's "the fact" doesn't make it one.

That's your opinion of how things might have gone. Given how Deion has fared since then there's no guarantee he wouldn't have had a bad year. Or gotten injured. Or that he would have made a difference.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just because you state it's "the fact" doesn't make it one.

That's your opinion of how things might have gone. Given how Deion has fared since then there's no guarantee he wouldn't have had a bad year. Or gotten injured. Or that he would have made a difference.

Barring injury, it makes no sense to claim that you don't know if Deion would have made a difference. All it takes is a look at his previous seasons in the system to know that he pretty clearly would have made a positive difference. I'm more than just a little confident that Branch would have been an upgrade over a guy like Gabriel, for example.

The more reasonable question is how keeping him would have impacted the team's future. Would Gaffney still have been signed? What would the team have done after losing its 1st round pick if it hadn't had the pick from the Branch trade? Would the team still have gone after Moss and/or Welker? Those, among others, are areas where having a healthy Branch on the team would have potentially caused a divergence.

 

[Patjew]

Barring injury, it makes no sense to claim that you don't know if Deion would have made a difference. All it takes is a look at his previous seasons in the system to know that he pretty clearly would have made a positive difference. I'm more than just a little confident that Branch would have been an upgrade over a guy like Gabriel, for example.

The more reasonable question is how keeping him would have impacted the team's future. Would Gaffney still have been signed? What would the team have done after losing its 1st round pick if it hadn't had the pick from the Branch trade? Would the team still have gone after Moss and/or Welker? Those, among others, are areas where having a healthy Branch on the team would have potentially caused a divergence.

Minor point, but with a guy like Deion (who I like and hope to see back), I don't think you can ever bar injury.

 

[eom]

there's 9 pages of get rich to this, but I believe asante got signed for something like $9m/yr, and when we traded cassel we were right at the cap.
throughout the regular season we had just a few million wiggle room.

if somebody wants to trim $9m/yr off the payroll to fit him in there I'd be interested to see it.
if he wanted $1m/yr the pats were foolish to let him go.

 

[patfanken]

there's 9 pages of get rich to this, but I believe asante got signed for something like $9m/yr, and when we traded cassel we were right at the cap.
throughout the regular season we had just a few million wiggle room.

if somebody wants to trim $9m/yr off the payroll to fit him in there I'd be interested to see it.

Sorry EOM, your post make just TOO much sense to be of value to some people. It would seem that they want the Pats to pay EVERYBODY what they want. They fail to recognize that a signing here means someone else leaving. For years I have been saying that the first rule of capology is that for every dollar you give one player there is ONE less dollar for everyone else. Its like a mantra, yet some fail to grasp its very simple concept.

If the HAD signed Samuel, there would have been CONSEQUENCES somewhere in the roster. People FAIL to understand this. They want to pay Seymour, Samuel, Law, Hobbs, Branch, and then with PERFECT 20/20 hindsight lay claim to a superior opinion....without considering the ripple effect of a big contract signing.

I strongly believe that BB regrets some of his moves over the years, but not matching the Eagles offer to Assante Samuel, ISN'T one of them.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry EOM, your post make just TOO much sense to be of value to some people. It would seem that they want the Pats to pay EVERYBODY what they want. They fail to recognize that a signing here means someone else leaving. For years I have been saying that the first rule of capology is that for every dollar you give one player there is ONE less dollar for everyone else. Its like a mantra, yet some fail to grasp its very simple concept.

If the HAD signed Samuel, there would have been CONSEQUENCES somewhere in the roster. People FAIL to understand this. They want to pay Seymour, Samuel, Law, Hobbs, Branch, and then with PERFECT 20/20 hindsight lay claim to a superior opinion....without considering the ripple effect of a big contract signing.

It's not that people aren't considering the ripple effect. It's that your mantra simply isn't completely true, because it's not the whole story. The salary cap is an accounting number, nothing more. The key is actual dollars spent. We've had multiple threads on this, and I've posted a link showing that the Redskins spent $150 million more in actual dollars than the Patriots did in the same 4 year span. New England has a salary structure and sticks to it. There's nothing wrong with that, but that's not the same thing as actually spending all the money available to spend.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

If you bother to take a few less sips of the kool-aid you'd would see that team is loaded with young talent, they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

Didn't you say last year they'd win maybe 6 games?

It's not 2003 anymore, there is no hot tub time machine for you to jump into.

that's for sure.

talk about needing a hot tub time machine, how's joe willie's rehab going ?

Ease up just a bit, PFK. I hate the jesters & that embarassing slob Tubby Wrecks more than most, but Gunns is about the most thoughtful & deferential green beans poster here. And hey, when you're right, you're right.

sorry, pfk's right. outside of beating the bungles and sd superchokers in a playoff tourney they shouldn't have even been in, what have the jets won in oh let's say 40 yrs. or the entire existence of the afc ?

 

[captain stone]

sorry, pfk's right. outside of beating the bungles and sd superchokers in a playoff tourney they shouldn't have even been in, what have the jets won in oh let's say 40 yrs. or the entire existence of the afc ?

It's true that the Jesters haven't really accomplished anything yet. It's also true that they have a few players on their team whom I would love to have on ours.

 

[drakehead]

Asante Samuel, Sheldon Brown don't show for Eagles workouts | ProFootballTalk.com

...and we're now hearing that Samuel and Brown quietly are available to any interested suitors, as part of a McNabb trade or separately.

haha

 

[Yehoodi]

Typical homers taking a shot at a guy who was a major contributor to some Super Bowl teams. Who needs Asante, we've got Whilhite.

first off he was a rookie in SB and did not start and did not see much action. he started in SB 39 but due to injuries to Poole and Law. Not sure how you get the point that a second year CB was a "major" contributor to our SBs runs

And btw, when he was a top dog CB in our 2007 season, in SB 42 he missed a game ending INT albeit it was high and tough catch, and was the typical "i am not gonna cover my guy (and my RESPONSIBLITY )" Samual and leave my guy and come underneath to try to get a pick. Well you might get a pick here and there and it looks cool on the stat sheet, and makes others think your great cuase you got some INTs, this time, like others, you got burnt and was one major major factor to us not stopping that last drive in SB 42. . .

 

[Yehoodi]

I'll take a physical corner who excels in both man and zone coverage any day over a guy who's good at making INTs but whiffs when it counts the most and disappears in the running game.

agreed, and bingo. yah in a way would loved to have kept Samuel. A lot of fans and coaches get too rapped up in stats. if a guy has a bunch in INTs but a lot of them are from ball hawking or u leaving your man to create a double teams and subsequent INT, one needs to put those int in perspective. cuase you need to look at all of the other times he leaves his man and see the results of those plays and balance them against the ints. as i mentioned about post about SB 42 and i remember in the nyg-phil playoff game he left his man more than once, did get an int but on another play left his guy wide open for a big gain and subsequent giant score. so some of those INTS are a wash against big plays by the offense. many just look at the ints and claim great cb, our #1cb, pro bowl, all-pro, etc. but when one balances those ints against the big plays its a much different story . . .

 

[tuckeverlasting]

i loved shonn greene coming out of iowa, but he's the enemy now. other than maybe david harris, there's nothing there i would want. not manGOLD, not keller and certainly not calvin "pick up the steroids and pick up the" pace.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Just because you state it's "the fact" doesn't make it one.

That's your opinion of how things might have gone. Given how Deion has fared since then there's no guarantee he wouldn't have had a bad year. Or gotten injured. Or that he would have made a difference.

heh....ok

I guess the pats really showed these guys a lesson by continuing to pile up trophies after they left......LMFAO

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Asante Samuel, Sheldon Brown don't show for Eagles workouts | ProFootballTalk.com

...and we're now hearing that Samuel and Brown quietly are available to any interested suitors, as part of a McNabb trade or separately.

haha

heh......yeah.....guess the world showed samuel a lesson......

 

[MoLewisrocks]

heh......yeah.....guess the world showed samuel a lesson......

Recently, Eagles coach Andy Reid said that cornerback Asante Samuel needs to play better.

Cornerback Asante Samuel has responded, sort of.

"The whole team needs to improve from the front office, to the head coach to the players," Samuel told Derrick Gunn of CSNPhilly.com.

Yikes...there's a problem in Philly, apart from the future of the team's long-term starting quarterback.

Asante Samuel reacts to Andy Reid's remarks | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Alright first off all its Samuel not Samuels.

2nd the INT on that play was far from an easy play. He was right along the sidelines and guarding a curl. He couldnt locate the ball until it was too close to him, that ball wasnt exactly to his chest, he had to levitate and try to grab it. Not an easy play by anymeans.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Alright first off all its Samuel not Samuels.

2nd the INT on that play was far from an easy play. He was right along the sidelines and guarding a curl. He couldnt locate the ball until it was too close to him, that ball wasnt exactly to his chest, he had to levitate and try to grab it. Not an easy play by anymeans.

Levitate... Although for $7.8M he should have...

He had to elevate, and he did, but his timing was off and it went right through his finger tips... It wasn't a gimme play, but it wasn't a play a top tier CB - which he openly professed to be - doesn't routinely manage to make with a freakin' game let alone a ring and an undefeated season on the line. And it was only the third play he blew that evening... two of which involved the seemingly immortal though shortly thereafter unemployed WR David Tyree...

 

[RyanP421]

He was in a position to make what should have been a makeable play on the ball, and he blew it. Just like Asante. It's one play that he missed, so rational people everywhere can at least shrug their shoulders and say "it sucks, but it happens to even the best players". That same standard applies to Asante too, though. You can't have it both ways, and discredit the entire career of guys like Asante and Woods for one play, while guys like Harrison, Brady, and Mankins all get the free pass. They all deserve the free pass.

Are you really comparing the worth of careers between Harrison and Samuel? Brady and Samuel, etc? Come on man. Samuel makes those mistakes FAAAARRR too often. Harrison's "mistake" you speak of wasn't a blown coverage or juts dropping the ball or making a play he damn sure should have made. Had Harrison stripped that ball from Tyree, you would be calling it a great play by Harrison. If Samuel caught the ball that hit him in the hands you would be saying he caught a ball that any CB would catch and that he SHOULD catch. By the way, the would have been great play by Harrison, had he made it, would have been in response to Samuel completly blowing that play. That play never would have happened in Samuel knew how to cover.

There is a HUGE difference in the examples you give, so please try not to make them sound like they're similar when they are far from that. The knock on Samuel is that he sucks at basically everything aside from being a ballhawk. I'm not a fan of ballhawks to be honest with you. Sure, it's the "sexy play" and whatnot, but ballhawks tend to blow a play more often than they get that big INT. Sure there are some exceptions (Polamalu, etc), but Samuel isn't one of them.

He is vastly overpaid. I would never want anything to do with him with the contract he has right now, and I'm glad we didn't pay him that.