Gasper on Chad Jackson

[Metaphors]

Now I dont claim to have timed him, but I am thinking that because of his surgery he has lost some of his top end speed(a common thing for knee injuries)and I am not making this up,not ignoring reality.

Can't help you here. There are hundreds of players that have had ACL surgery and returned to 100% of their pre-injury skills. There are likely some that don't recover as well, but I would imagine they were older or had other issues. I'm not going to bother building a list of players to support this because your contention about ACL injuries is just silly.

Players make the team on production--potential only gets them in the building. We cut draft picks every year because they didnt PRODUCE.

Draft picks make rosters because of potential. They have no production to speak of since they have never taken a regular season snap. If you think Kevin O'Connell is making this team because of production (or he will be cut for lack of production)...well, I think you would be alone in that perspective.

CJ is skinny for his hieght.

He is 6'1" and 215 lbs. David Givens (our big receiver during his time here) was about the same build. TO is taller and only a couple of pounds heavier. Anquan Boldin is almost the exact same size and nobody describes him as skinny. CJack is ripped and in no way could be described as "skinny".

I believe Washingtons cap hit to be 1.5M, Aiken's I dont know but I dont think its more than 1M, thats a big difference for a STer.

Go ahead and look up the cap hits for Washington and Aiken and report back to us on the difference. Facts are fun once you give them a try.

And what of my comment of comparing CJ to those guys on your list as 4th wr? What did those JAGS do from that position? Could Givens make this team??

A healthy Givens could absolutely make this team, taking Gaffney's role. Just not at the money he was looking for. You are the only one comparing CJack to those players. He is competing for the starting flanker position. If he stays healthy and still can't earn significant reps at that position, something is wrong and he will have one foot out the door.

 

[PatsFan37]

Washington may get beaten out by Aiken because of his cap hit.
I believe Washingtons cap hit to be 1.5M, Aiken's I dont know but I dont think its more than 1M, thats a big difference for a STer.

Before you start spreading any more misconceptions, let me give you a hand. Go to patscap.com and check out Aiken and Washington's figures for "2008 Cap Room Gained if Released Today." That is the relevant number, not the cap hit, which includes money you won't see again even if you cut the player.

I'll give you a hint. Aiken and Washington are the same, down to the penny.

I can't believe you think Chad Jackson is skinny. I mean, the guy's ripped. Solid. Big. Not skinny. If he were a RB, he might be skinny, but certainly not for a WR.

Don't mean to pile on, but I want to clear up those misconceptions about my binkie, Mr. Washington, who, BTW, will give Mr. Jackson a run for his money.

 

[jeffbiologist]

I am on Miguels page and it says:

Washington-$4M/5=800K bonus, 900K salary--about 1.7M
Aiken-$225K/2=$112K bonus, 605K salary--about 700K

BIG DIFFERENCE. I would say that they are paying him 4th wr $$ which means between Aiken, Washington and CJ only 2 SHOULD make the team barring injury. Am I reading this correctly?? Pile on,lol. Here are the links:

Aiken--http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#aiken
Washington--http://www.patscap.com/2007capfootnotes.html#washington

 

[Deus Irae]

I am on Miguels page and it says:

Washington-$4M/5=800K bonus, 900K salary--about 1.7M
Aiken-$225K/2=$112K bonus, 605K salary--about 700K

BIG DIFFERENCE. I would say that they are paying him 4th wr $$ which means between Aiken, Washington and CJ only 2 SHOULD make the team barring injury. Am I reading this correctly?? Pile on,lol. Here are the links:

Aiken--http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#aiken
Washington--http://www.patscap.com/2007capfootnotes.html#washington

Miguel has Washington's salary at $605k, the same as Aiken.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Miguel has Washington's salary at $605k, the same as Aiken.

PLEASE go to the link I posted on Miguels website. It has his adjusted cap figure for 07 as 1.5+ and he didnt take a pay cut. I dont think its been corrected if its wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

PLEASE go to the link I posted on Miguels website. It has his adjusted cap figure for 07 as 1.5+ and he didnt take a pay cut. I dont think its been corrected if its wrong.

I don't know what to tell you, except to point out, once again, that Miguel's most recent chart numbers give Washington a $650k salary. Miguel's 2/13 'update' doesn't apply because Washington signed the 'redone' deal with the Patriots on February 29th.

 

[PatsFan37]

PLEASE go to the link I posted on Miguels website. It has his adjusted cap figure for 07 as 1.5+ and he didnt take a pay cut. I dont think its been corrected if its wrong.

There's a lot of numbers and I understand you're confused. When you're discussing the benefit in cap dollars to releasing a player, it's not about cap hit, it's about cap gained upon release. Because they gave Washington a bigger signing bonus than Aiken, he has a bigger cap hit, although their salaries are the same.

When you release a player, you don't get back the signing bonus. That's why you're making a mistake to compare the cap hits. Compare instead the "2008 Cap Room Gained if Released Today", as mentioned in my post above.

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. Someone other than Jeff. Thanks.

 

[jeffbiologist]

This is not someone other than Jeff,lol, but can you see how I got to those numbers? It says his number for 07 was 1.5+M, and you know he didnt take a pay cut. If his salary is $600K, I used his $800K number as thats the last number I can find on his bonus(the difference is workout bonus,etc)to come up with 1.7M. I did not use any of those numbers on the chart, I used them on the link. But I can see how the numbers look screwy on both sides, maybe Miguel could help.

 

[Metaphors]

Washington--http://www.patscap.com/2007capfootnotes.html#washington

Ummm...no.

Washington--http://www.patscap.com/capfootnotes.html#washington

You are actually quoting the original deal he signed, not the reworked deal. The $4M option bonus and subsequent salaries were a fantasy that the Pats were never going to pick up. Try again.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Sorry, got that info from Miguels page....and its the most up to date under his name. Is his signing bonus really only $200K? Last year he got 1/5 of $4M ($800K)as a signing bonus and his salary.......I didnt think he was going to be that willing to take such a big pay cut given his cult status here,lol. I havent seen the details on his signing bonus I only saw what was on that link.....

 

[Metaphors]

Last year he got 1/5 of $4M ($800K)as a signing bonus and his salary

The $4M was an option bonus due in 2008 that the Pats declined (as everyone knew they would). He didn't get any of it in 2007. Declining the bonus made him a free agent, but he chose to re-sign with the Pats for the figures on Miguel's cap page.

To repeat, the $4M option bonus for Washington was a contract fantasy (like the $8M option bonus for Stallworth). It was declined and Washington never saw a penny of the bonus or subsequent 5 years of salaries.

 

[spacecrime]

Sorry, got that info from Miguels page....and its the most up to date under his name. Is his signing bonus really only $200K? Last year he got 1/5 of $4M ($800K)as a signing bonus and his salary.......I didnt think he was going to be that willing to take such a big pay cut given his cult status here,lol.

I have never seen one guy put out so much wrong information in one thread since RS1918 posted here back in 2002.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Hey man, all I did was quote Miguels page and then apologize that it was wrong....get over it.

 

[mtbykr]

Nice read.....I don't expect much so it will be nice to see if he can come into his own!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Uh, oh!
http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/PatsBlog/2008/07/training-camp-s-3.html

"It was not a good morning for Chad Jackson. When he was fielding punts, he dropped one and then had the ball knocked away by a defender on another try, earning him a talking-to. Later, he dropped a long ball from Tom Brady on an otherwise successful trick play."

 

[fgssand]

The age aspect is also interesting for the folks that feel like Hobbs has reached his ceiling and isn't a starting caliber CB:

Ellis Hobbs = 05/15/83
J. Wilhite = 02/23/84

Since Hobbs is only 9 months older than a draftee in this years draft, people might want to give him a little more time before drawing conclusions on his potential.

At the risk of hijacking this thread (I think all that can be said at this point about CJack has been said).....Metaphors, this was a great observation on your part regarding HOBBS.

I did not realize how young he is especially when you consider he is now going into his forth year, having started more than 2/3's of games played since he arrived here ( 33 out of 48). The kid is smart, fast, good hands has the right mindset for the position and now has to be called a young veteran.

There is no reason that we cannot look to Hobbs to excel this year. He should be able to learn a lot from Bryant, Webster and L. Sanders, not to mention what Capers can add to his game.

I am less concerned about our DB's than most, I think there are other areas of concern on this team (OL?).

 

[captain stone]

I am less concerned about our DB's than most, I think there are other areas of concern on this team (OL?).

While I share your concern over the OL, i.e. the right side thereof, I can't share your confidence in the CBs.

Bryant is servicable, but does not create turnovers;
Webster is injury-prone & also doesn't create turnovers;
Sanders is probably better-suited for FS;
Wheatley & Wilhite are unknowns;
and Hobbs is recovering from 2 surgeries.

Back to topic, I would've signed DJ Hackett as the #4, in case CJ & KW are incapable of assuming greater responsibilities in the regular offense. Hey, Tim Dwight is still available; he could still be a decent backup slot WR & Returner if his medical issues are behind him.

 

[BPF]

Some commentary from Kirwan and Ryan of Sirius NFL Radio on both Chad Jackson and the secondary.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/07/time_to_get_sir.html

Time to get Sirius
Posted by Mike Reiss, Globe Staff July 27, 2008 11:05 AM

FOXBOROUGH -- Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius NFL radio are on site today, broadcasting from 12-4 p.m.

For hard-core NFL fans, Kirwan and Ryan are great to listen to, and with that in mind, I thought it would be interesting to catch up with them after the first practice today. They were asked the same question: "What were you looking for at today's practice?"

"I really wanted to see the impact of the new players," Kirwan responded after watching the practice from field level. "Watching Jerod Mayo, watching [Terrence] Wheatley, and seeing if they can contribute this year. Can they be effective players? It's a little premature, but I'd say the answer is that both guys are going to help a very good football be even better."

Added Ryan: "A couple of things I was looking at -- Chad Jackson and his development. I thought he looked good, for the most part, in practice today. Just his body language, and obviously running routes. I thought that was good. He's key. I was also looking at the secondary. When you think about it, there are a lot of [number] 2 corners. I don't know if there is a [number] 1 corner, but I think there are a lot of 2 corners, good corners, young corners. I think Wheatley is going to be pretty good at the end of the day. I think you can win with those guys, especially with a strong front seven."