Gasper on Chad Jackson

[cstjohn17]

I'm curious..... how many catches do you think Jennings would have had last season had he missed most of the year due to injury and then returned to a lineup featuring Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney and Washington?

I didn't mention Jennings, I have minimal knowledge of him other than he is by all accounts a quick study and a hard worker. He earned his roster spot by learning the Packers system and being very productive when given a chance. Jackson broke in with the Patriots in 2006 when the WR core was extremely suspect, dare we remember the names Gabriel, washed up Troy Brown, etc.

We can use all the excuses, here are some of the usual ones:
- too young, too immature, injured, mis-remembers the playbook, doesn't have BB's confidence (or Tom Brady's), too good looking, mis-used, etc.

The bottom line is that trading a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a junior WR was very risky, all or nothing. Draft picks in general are about 50/50 to ever make any contribution, keeping the two original draft slots minimizes the risk.

I hope Jackson can emerge, but he will have to earn it, nothing will be given to him. Even if all he does is run crazy fly patterns like Bethel it will be a big improvement from what we have seen so far.

 

[BelichickFan]

We can use all the excuses, here are some of the usual ones:
- too young, too immature, injured, mis-remembers the playbook, doesn't have BB's confidence (or Tom Brady's), too good looking, mis-used, etc.

Honestly I have no idea what part of "Torn ACL" you don't understand. His rookie season was a little disappointing but had flashes. Then he tore his ACL which usually significantly slows a player's speed and quickness for a year - and we signed Moss, Stallworth and Welker. Coming off a torn ACL behind a really good WR corps that stayed healthy. That's not an excuse it's simple reality.

 

[BionicPatriot]

The dude comes in barely older than a high school student, has minimal impact his rookie year. That's fine, that has happened before. His second season he suffers a major injury, that sucks. I think by year 3 if he continues to be hurt or not understand the system, we need to cut our losses. A lot of WRS bust out in their 3rd or 4th year, believe it or not. I for one was never high on Bethel Johnson because he never had the excuses Jackson has had up to this point.

 

[cstjohn17]

Honestly I have no idea what part of "Torn ACL" you don't understand. His rookie season was a little disappointing but had flashes. Then he tore his ACL which usually significantly slows a player's speed and quickness for a year - and we signed Moss, Stallworth and Welker. Coming off a torn ACL behind a really good WR corps that stayed healthy. That's not an excuse it's simple reality.

Come off it, it is not like he was a rising star before he got injured. He came back from the injury and was a healthy scratch for most of the final games.

For any receiver especially one with his size/speed and practice skill to end a season with zero receptions is almost impossible. What part of 0 receptions do you not understand. So far despite being the best mini camp player of all time he has averaged less than 7 receptions per year.

Again, I hope he turns the corner this year but don't expect a lot and there is even a chance he could be cut since his ability in special teams is moderate.

 

[cstjohn17]

duplicate, please delete

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Honestly I have no idea what part of "Torn ACL" you don't understand. His rookie season was a little disappointing but had flashes. Then he tore his ACL which usually significantly slows a player's speed and quickness for a year - and we signed Moss, Stallworth and Welker. Coming off a torn ACL behind a really good WR corps that stayed healthy. That's not an excuse it's simple reality.

Having suffered a torn ACL,PCL, MCL and torn patella tendon in college, I can tell you that the first year back is difficult mentally (how much can I push it, will it swell up?) and physically (cutting is the hardest). The second year is a lot easier because you know what you can do and can not do and make adjustments off of that.

Having said that however, I never thought Jackson's inability to get on the field had much to do with the physical ability to play the position of maturity, but everything to do with intelligence or lack thereof in learning how to run option routes. His entire rookie year he rarely made the correct post snap adjustments in his routes based on the defense and I think that is why the coaching staff lost confidence in him.
It was extremely evident in TC of his rookie year, he was clueless. And even though the coaching staff had chats with him after almost every play, you could see he didn't get it.

I have no idea if he has gotten better since his rookie year, but if anyone goes to TC this year, please report back on how many "after the play chats" the coaches have with Jackson. Even a private word or two isususally a sign he missed a read.

I am hoping for the best with him and cautiously optimistic he has a shot at the 4th WR spot. (Gaffney the third)

 

[BelichickFan]

What part of 0 receptions do you not understand.

And what part of Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Gafney do you not understand ?

 

[cstjohn17]

And what part of Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Gafney do you not understand ?

Still not even one catch? just one please? Vrabel, Eckel and Mankins had at least one each.

 

[BelichickFan]

Still not even one catch? just one please? Vrabel, Eckel and Mankins had at least one each.

Yeah and they play a similar role to Jackson

Kelly Washington is a perfectly capable sub receiver too and he had no catches. Between our WR, TE, RB we simply didn't need a #5 WR last year.

 

[cstjohn17]

Yeah and they play a similar role to Jackson

Kelly Washington is a perfectly capable sub receiver too and he had no catches. Between our WR, TE, RB we simply didn't need a #5 WR last year.

But I thought Jackson was good or something, shouldn't he have been able to get one ball thrown to him?

Ok, horse dead beat. Anything else we can pummel until training camp starts?

 

[MKats31]

I can't wait to attend Patriots Training Camp and see Action Jackson

 

[Deus Irae]

But I thought Jackson was good or something, shouldn't he have been able to get one ball thrown to him?

Ok, horse dead beat. Anything else we can pummel until training camp starts?

Moss took over 90% of the snaps at his position last season, and Stallworth took 60% from his side. That left less than 50% of the snaps available to the #3 (non-slot) receiver. Now, Gaffney was healthy and established, so it should come as no surprise to anybody that he'd get a majority of those snaps. Welker was the slot receiver and I'm sure you would admit that subbing any 2nd year receiver for Welker last season would have been a very, very rare occasion on any team.

Now, with the Patriots using the TE as the 4th receiver and the RB as the 5th receiver, where exactly was Jackson supposed to come up with all these lost catches? Your "just one" argument notwithstanding, there were clearly not going to be a whole lot of passes available. Are you seriously going to gripe because a player recovering from serious knee injury didn't catch, say, 4-5 passes last season?

Most of us defending Jackson aren't claiming that Randy Moss, Jr. is just waiting to break out. What we are saying is that wide receivers don't usually get it done as rookies, and Jackson's second season was essentially ruined by injury. Judge him as if this season were his second, not his third, and give the kid a fair shake.

 

[Kontradiction]

Moss took over 90% of the snaps at his position last season, and Stallworth took 60% from his side. That left less than 50% of the snaps available to the #3 (non-slot) receiver. Now, Gaffney was healthy and established, so it should come as no surprise to anybody that he'd get a majority of those snaps. Welker was the slot receiver and I'm sure you would admit that subbing any 2nd year receiver for Welker last season would have been a very, very rare occasion on any team.

Now, with the Patriots using the TE as the 4th receiver and the RB as the 5th receiver, where exactly was Jackson supposed to come up with all these lost catches? Your "just one" argument notwithstanding, there were clearly not going to be a whole lot of passes available. Are you seriously going to gripe because a player recovering from serious knee injury didn't catch, say, 4-5 passes last season?

Most of us defending Jackson aren't claiming that Randy Moss, Jr. is just waiting to break out. What we are saying is that wide receivers don't usually get it done as rookies, and Jackson's second season was essentially ruined by injury. Judge him as if this season were his second, not his third, and give the kid a fair shake.

:ditto::agree::yeahthat:

 

[sebman2112]

Good article, and hopefully he lives up to the potential some of us witnessed. We'll simply have to wait and see...

 

[jeffbiologist]

Potential doesnt make this team. Age doesnt MATTER on this team. We run a 3wr set most of the time, so our 4th wr gets a decent amount of playing time. A 5th wr that plays ST is necessary, it was only 3 years ago we had to play like 8 wr's because they kept getting hurt right?
A year after drafting CJ we go out and sign Moss, Stallworth AND Welker.That tells you what BB thinks of CJs future. I am NOT comfortable with Washington as my #4 reciever(he may be fighting with Aiken for the 5th wr/ST to even MAKE the team given his cap hit). CJ is not a little guy, he is tall/skinny/FAST and runs UPRIGHT. To me he doesnt cut well to begin with, less so with a bum knee. The fact that we didnt draft a guy to compete with him after letting Stallworth go says he should make the team, but 4th wr is a position BB likes to work guys on and off the PS too. It would not surprise me to see him traded part way through camp if we could get anything for him. I doubt it, but its a deep position for us.
I like his potential and he should get more playing time but even that doesnt mean he will be thrown to or if we do- that he catches it. He has used up all his "he is young" credits and must show something QUICKLY or he will be working elsewhere soon. You read articles just like this on him every few months but its always in the offseason, never on the field.

 

[Metaphors]

Potential doesnt make this team.

You mean besides rookies that make the team every year. And young players coming off injuries. And Vrabel.

A year after drafting CJ we go out and sign Moss, Stallworth AND Welker.That tells you what BB thinks of CJs future.

Nope. CJack was coming off ACL surgery so he wasn't going to provide much last year. Now that he is 18 months after surgery, they let Stallworth go. Those voices telling you what BB thinks are apparently not reliable.

I am NOT comfortable with Washington as my #4 reciever(he may be fighting with Aiken for the 5th wr/ST to even MAKE the team given his cap hit).

Do you even know how much Washington makes? Is there even a cap difference between Washington and Aiken? Washington may not make the team, but I seriously doubt his cap hit will be the reason.

CJ is not a little guy, he is tall/skinny/FAST and runs UPRIGHT.

6'1", 215 lbs. Not amazingly tall and certainly not skinny.

To me he doesnt cut well to begin with, less so with a bum knee.

He had ACL surgery 18 months ago. Do you have any inside information to indicate his knee is anything but 100%?

The fact that we didnt draft a guy to compete with him after letting Stallworth go says he should make the team, but 4th wr is a position BB likes to work guys on and off the PS too.

Assuming you mean 4th best WR on the depth chart, you are totally making stuff up. Here are the 4th WRs (in some cases 5th) since 2001:
Charles Johnson
David Givens
Donald Hayes
David Patten
Bethel Johnson
Dedric Ward
Tim Dwight
Chad Jackson
Jabar Gaffney
None of them spent a day on the Pats practice squad.

He has used up all his "he is young" credits and must show something QUICKLY or he will be working elsewhere soon.

CJack turned 23 in March. When exactly do you lose the "he is young" credits?

 

[jeffbiologist]

Wow, you are pretty quick to defend a guy that really hasnt done much on this team. I am not sure who the quote is from but I love it"potential can get you fired". CJ has had the chance to play with Brady and be the guy. The fact that he hasnt gotten on the field to make a catch is significant. He works for a coach that will put JR Redmond in as the starting back in the Super Bowl.....so if he showed something he would make it on the field. I say STOP making excuses for him, its time to let the binky go--sink or swim.
To compare his injury...to say McNabb, he came back and played all last year right? Compare him to anyone with a knee injury, given that kind of time he should have shown something....and I am not talking about a couple kickoff returns. Comparing him to a rookie or Vrabel isnt accurate either because he didnt make it on the field to do anything. That has got to be because he hasnt showed enough in practice to earn that. Why is that? You dont hear how endeared he is to his coach and teammates, you dont hear that he stays late for extra help, you dont hear anything extra good to make you think that he is going that extra mile to help this team.
We have become accustomed to that 5'10 reciever with moves on this team.....that athlete that may not have the fastest time but can work to get open.... He had that natural speed and downfield ability but I dont see him making a living going over the middle. And when you blow out your knee and get it fixed its NEVER 100% no matter who says what.
Maybe I was referring to the 5th wr spot more than the 4th...but Childress, Tucker, Caldwell, that guy from Brown, that other Raider WR, pretty sure Gaffney and several others -some have been wheeled in and out, back and forth from dressing/waivers several times. Even Troy Brown.Bottom line, from that list of recievers you made do you see ONE name that ever lived up to the billing you are handing to CJ?? Givens is the only one left in the league right? On this team now where would he be in his prime?? I made my point.

 

[Metaphors]

Wow, you are pretty quick to defend a guy that really hasnt done much on this team. I am not sure who the quote is from but I love it"potential can get you fired". CJ has had the chance to play with Brady and be the guy. The fact that he hasnt gotten on the field to make a catch is significant. He works for a coach that will put JR Redmond in as the starting back in the Super Bowl.....so if he showed something he would make it on the field. I say STOP making excuses for him, its time to let the binky go--sink or swim.
To compare his injury...to say McNabb, he came back and played all last year right? Compare him to anyone with a knee injury, given that kind of time he should have shown something....and I am not talking about a couple kickoff returns. Comparing him to a rookie or Vrabel isnt accurate either because he didnt make it on the field to do anything. That has got to be because he hasnt showed enough in practice to earn that. Why is that? You dont hear how endeared he is to his coach and teammates, you dont hear that he stays late for extra help, you dont hear anything extra good to make you think that he is going that extra mile to help this team.
We have become accustomed to that 5'10 reciever with moves on this team.....that athlete that may not have the fastest time but can work to get open.... He had that natural speed and downfield ability but I dont see him making a living going over the middle. And when you blow out your knee and get it fixed its NEVER 100% no matter who says what.
Maybe I was referring to the 5th wr spot more than the 4th...but Childress, Tucker, Caldwell, that guy from Brown, that other Raider WR, pretty sure Gaffney and several others -some have been wheeled in and out, back and forth from dressing/waivers several times. Even Troy Brown.Bottom line, from that list of recievers you made do you see ONE name that ever lived up to the billing you are handing to CJ?? Givens is the only one left in the league right? On this team now where would he be in his prime?? I made my point.

Not defending CJack. This is CJack's first fully healthy training camp to get on the same page as Brady. If he isn't getting significant 1st team snaps early this season, you have to question what is wrong.

My main point is that you make definitive statements that are completely false:

Never recover to 100% from ACL surgery? While it can take upwards of 2 years, there are literally hundreds of examples of getting back to normal after ACL surgery. You are just ignoring reality.

4th WR on the Pats going back-n-forth to the practice squad? Has never happened under Belichick. Now you change your point to the 5th WR getting waived occasionally (like that is some brilliant insight).

Players don't make the team on potential.
Belichick signed Stallworth and Moss because he didn't want to play CJack.
CJack is skinny.
Washington may get beaten out by Aiken because of his cap hit.
On and on and on...

There is plenty of legitimate criticism you can throw at CJack. You don't have to make stuff up.

 

[jeffbiologist]

Now I dont claim to have timed him, but I am thinking that because of his surgery he has lost some of his top end speed(a common thing for knee injuries)and I am not making this up,not ignoring reality.

4th WR on the Pats going back-n-forth to the practice squad? Has never happened under Belichick. Now you change your point to the 5th WR getting waived occasionally (like that is some brilliant insight).
Until last year we didnt use so many 3wr sets so our 5th wr last year is basically the equivalent of a 4th wr in past years....my mistake.

Players don't make the team on potential.
Players make the team on production--potential only gets them in the building. We cut draft picks every year because they didnt PRODUCE.
Belichick signed Stallworth and Moss because he didn't want to play CJack.
Well, they were 1 yr contracts(Moss and Stallworth), that doesnt give CJ an excuse for not being ready to make a contribution in the playoffs like my example of JR Redmond.
CJack is skinny.
CJ is skinny for his hieght.
Washington may get beaten out by Aiken because of his cap hit.
I believe Washingtons cap hit to be 1.5M, Aiken's I dont know but I dont think its more than 1M, thats a big difference for a STer.
On and on and on...
No on and on, thats it....
And what of my comment of comparing CJ to those guys on your list as 4th wr? What did those JAGS do from that position? Could Givens make this team??

 

[sebman2112]

Potential doesnt make this team. Age doesnt MATTER on this team. We run a 3wr set most of the time, so our 4th wr gets a decent amount of playing time. A 5th wr that plays ST is necessary, it was only 3 years ago we had to play like 8 wr's because they kept getting hurt right?
A year after drafting CJ we go out and sign Moss, Stallworth AND Welker.That tells you what BB thinks of CJs future. I am NOT comfortable with Washington as my #4 reciever(he may be fighting with Aiken for the 5th wr/ST to even MAKE the team given his cap hit). CJ is not a little guy, he is tall/skinny/FAST and runs UPRIGHT. To me he doesnt cut well to begin with, less so with a bum knee. The fact that we didnt draft a guy to compete with him after letting Stallworth go says he should make the team, but 4th wr is a position BB likes to work guys on and off the PS too. It would not surprise me to see him traded part way through camp if we could get anything for him. I doubt it, but its a deep position for us.
I like his potential and he should get more playing time but even that doesnt mean he will be thrown to or if we do- that he catches it. He has used up all his "he is young" credits and must show something QUICKLY or he will be working elsewhere soon. You read articles just like this on him every few months but its always in the offseason, never on the field.

Don't be an idiot. I said hopefully he lives up to the potential some of us witnessed, and we'll have to simply wait and see...do you actually understand that statement, at all? I'm saying I still have some hope for him to blossom, but none of us know for sure if he will, hence the wait and see. You don't need to explain how far potential will get you in this business to me, thanks.