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Edelman to Defense?


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Sorry to say this because I do like the guy, but I'll be surprised if Julian makes the 53.
 
Edelman has the grand distinction of being the worst player on offense and the worst player on defense. I am hoping that a cornerback can return punts so we can cut him.

Good guy? Probably. Feisty? You betcha. Anything more than a funny storyline playing the secondary? Absolutely not. He filled in for a position of desperation, and it was admirable that he did so, but he was also the worst defensive back in the NFL.

In terms of offense, I think it's hilarious that people think he is even decent. Edelman has been a complete liability every time he's been with the offense since 2009. While he began his career looking like WW 2.0, he has become a completely unreliable target who is never on the same page as Brady and often leads to to turnovers when thrown the ball. The Patriots needed another option last year after Ochocinco stunk it up, and Edelman had a grand total of 4 receptions all season.

He's a good punt returner, but again, I'd rather have someone who can also add some value on either offense or defense.

I know my opinion is unpopular.
Did ya happen to catch his performance replacing Welker in the play-off loss to Baltimore 2 years ago? He was their leading receiver with 6 catches (targeted 8 times) for 2 TDs. A "complete liability" and "never on the same page as Brady" seems a stretch. He lost a lot of snaps on offense last year due to playing defense out of necessity. I think the idea that he can be a full-time, effective DB is a long shot, at best. I do think he's a very good special teams player on both sides and that he still has potential as a receiver. I think I recognize his limitations. Not sure you recognize his upsides. However, both positions are opinions we're entitled to.
 
How the heck could BB dump a guy that plays PR. WR, DB and KR all at replacement level or better. It's incomprehensible.

More like how can you keep a guy JUST because he has the physical ability to play three position even though he only does one above average?
 
I hope everyone in this thread stops calling Edelman a kickoff returner. He is a terrible kickoff returner; he is a good punt returner because of his quickness, but as a kick returner, he is just as bad as he is on offense and defense.
 
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Did ya happen to catch his performance replacing Welker in the play-off loss to Baltimore 2 years ago? He was their leading receiver with 6 catches (targeted 8 times) for 2 TDs. A "complete liability" and "never on the same page as Brady" seems a stretch. He lost a lot of snaps on offense last year due to playing defense out of necessity. I think the idea that he can be a full-time, effective DB is a long shot, at best. I do think he's a very good special teams player on both sides and that he still has potential as a receiver. I think I recognize his limitations. Not sure you recognize his upsides. However, both positions are opinions we're entitled to.

+1

There have been and will be uniformed players on the sidelines who will rarely see playing time (or none at all) which make the critiques on JE as if he is an underperforming starter rather ironic. This board frequently points out how BB sees and know things about a particular player and their respective role and value that we fans don't. That all flies out the window when it comes to JE. At this point who is more valuable to the Pats, slow mo Branch or JE?

To the JE detractors, does BB lose credibility with you if he doesn't cut him?
 
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ron brace.........no wait
jermaine cunningham......no wait
chad ochostinko.....no wait
anthony gonzalez.......no wait
ross ventrone......no wait
will allen......no wait


hey.....I'd prefer to discuss who will be the suprise to actually make the team
 
ron brace.........no wait
jermaine cunningham......no wait
chad ochostinko.....no wait
anthony gonzalez.......no wait
ross ventrone......no wait
will allen......no wait


hey.....I'd prefer to discuss who will be the suprise to actually make the team

Too quick on Brace and Allen.
 
Dear Julian, thanks for your service. Nate Ebner just called and thanked you for keeping his spot on the roster warm.

Edleman plays 1 position well (PR), a second position at an almost a JAG level (utility DB) and he's the boards binky. Go figure. Everything else he "does so well"... he really doesn't.

For those of you saying it will take 4 players to replace him, it's pretty laughable. Get another PR who can play WR poorly and get a DB who can fill the KR position poorly and you've covered everything Edleman brings... plus you've very likely upgraded the DB position.
 
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I hope everyone in this thread stops calling Edelman a kickoff returner. He is a terrible kickoff returner; he is a good punt returner because of his quickness, but as a kick returner, he is just as bad as he is on offense and defense.
Last year his average was average for punt returners. The year before he performed more admirably.

Aside from seeing if Ras-I will play the whole season, if Brian Waters will come back, Seabass's back, I'm interested in the question how Edelman will perform if asked to do punt returns. I suspect he won't improve much from last year. There's room for improvement.

The draft would have been an opportune time to get a guy for that. I was hoping for Keshawn Martin, a far more explosive athlete, WR, Michigan State, whom the Texans nabbed in the fourth round.
 
He's a better tackler than he is a receiver, I'll give him that much. The ONLY thing he has going for him is that he is barely adequate at multiple positions. He is not nor will he ever be capable of one half of what Welker can do as a WR. He is NOT a Welker replacement. Not even close.

If the Patriots were a mechanics tool chest, Edleman would be the equivalent of the duct tape in the back corner in the bottom drawer.

In his rookie year he was the only guy who showed up vs. Balto in the playoffs and looked to be more than capable of replacing Welker.

His only issue the last two seasons has been Welker's health which has not allowed him to play his natural position of slot WR.

I'm fairly confident he makes the team, but as another poster astutely pointed out, the Week 1 WR depth chart will be more likely be dictated by health than talent.
 
maybe for allen......seems like TC fodder


as for Brace......LOL.....keep holding your breath

I'm well aware of the history but see the big picture.

VW will be 31 in Nov and will be due for a restructuring after this year. He'll stay but he won't make $6.75m

When healthy, Brace played about 20% of the snaps in the latter 1/2 of 2010. If he truly sucked, BB would not play him (like 09 -1 game).

If VW goes down, they need a big body on the line, Warren is 34 and cannot play even 50% of the snaps over a 16 game schedule.

He has 3 years in the system, the team knows him and is a great insurance policy.

For Allen...the team needs about 8 guys who can line up in coverage (inc safeties). Is Allen one of them? Who knows but BB likes his vets and who knows how the draftees will make the team minus Wilson.
 
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In his rookie year he was the only guy who showed up vs. Balto in the playoffs and looked to be more than capable of replacing Welker.

His only issue the last two seasons has been Welker's health which has not allowed him to play his natural position of slot WR.

I'm fairly confident he makes the team, but as another poster astutely pointed out, the Week 1 WR depth chart will be more likely be dictated by health than talent.

I am just curious why a game in 2009 is relevant. In 2009, Adalius Thomas was still a promising player who was just having an "off-year", Joey Galloway was working his way into a playoff dark horse performance, and the board was still debating whether Laurence Maroney was the problem or the line was a problem. Darius Butler showed a lot of promise his rookie year, as did Brandon Tate.

Things have changed a lot.

If Edelman were half as good as he looked in '09, we never would have needed to trade for Branch half a season later.

It's disappointing, I know, but let's face it, if he had skills, he would be used. This isn't about depth. BB would work him into some gameplans when it called for him. He just isn't good. I had fantasies about Welker/Edelman slicing the field like a pair of scissors during Edelman's rookie year, and I thought he was going to be awesome, but he isn't. This happens a lot to players; he had some injuries, and I'm guessing he just isn't strong enough to play WR; guys jam him and beat him up- that's why he isn't Welker.
 
I am just curious why a game in 2009 is relevant. In 2009, Adalius Thomas was still a promising player who was just having an "off-year", Joey Galloway was working his way into a playoff dark horse performance, and the board was still debating whether Laurence Maroney was the problem or the line was a problem. Darius Butler showed a lot of promise his rookie year, as did Brandon Tate.

Things have changed a lot.

If Edelman were half as good as he looked in '09, we never would have needed to trade for Branch half a season later.

It's disappointing, I know, but let's face it, if he had skills, he would be used. This isn't about depth. BB would work him into some gameplans when it called for him. He just isn't good. I had fantasies about Welker/Edelman slicing the field like a pair of scissors during Edelman's rookie year, and I thought he was going to be awesome, but he isn't. This happens a lot to players; he had some injuries, and I'm guessing he just isn't strong enough to play WR; guys jam him and beat him up- that's why he isn't Welker.

I don't have any strong empirical evidence, I'm not one of these guys watching Tivo'd games, but my impression of Edelman is when he's in the slot he looks like an NFL caliber WR. Unfortunately, he rarely has found himself in that role the last two seasons and instead has been used in other ways where he clearly isn't as effective.

Of course that's because there is only room for one slot WR on the field at a time and Welker is the best in the NFL so it's tough luck for Julian, but maybe you're right, maybe he just had some beginners luck in 09 and even if he was playing fulltime in the slot he'd still be below average slot WR if given the opportunity.

I still think he makes the team over The Other Tony Gonzalez, Ocho, or Stallworth (but not Jab or Branch).
 
I don't have any strong empirical evidence, I'm not one of these guys watching Tivo'd games, but my impression of Edelman is when he's in the slot he looks like an NFL caliber WR. Unfortunately, he rarely has found himself in that role the last two seasons and instead has been used in other ways where he clearly isn't as effective.

Of course that's because there is only room for one slot WR on the field at a time and Welker is the best in the NFL so it's tough luck for Julian, but maybe you're right, maybe he just had some beginners luck in 09 and even if he was playing fulltime in the slot he'd still be below average slot WR if given the opportunity.

I still think he makes the team over The Other Tony Gonzalez, Ocho, or Stallworth (but not Jab or Branch).


I'd like to see a few spread formations this year, we certainly will be able to with the WRs we have, and mix the game plan up, run some spread, some 2 TE sets, some 3 TE sets, some pro-set, shotgun, I-Formation. We have the ability to run all of those formations, and with the versatility of a lot of our players we can even run them without switching out players a lot of the time.

patriots_spread_offense.jpg
 

I don't recall too many NEP formations where they go 4-5 WR and have two WRs lined up working the slot. I'd think you generally only want one offensive body running routes in the shallow center of the field which is where most of these guys operate, but I'm sure some ex-HS football players can correct me.
 
I don't recall too many NEP formations where they go 4-5 WR and have two WRs lined up working the slot. I'd think you generally only want one offensive body running routes in the shallow center of the field which is where most of these guys operate, but I'm sure some ex-HS football players can correct me.

I think it would depend on how you're viewing the definition of 'slot.' In your version, it may be more incorrect than correct.

In 4-5 WR sets, only 2 guys can be on the line of scrimmage at once, so in essence there is more than one 'slot' WR on the field at once.

If your argument was that the NEP offense already runs a lot of shallow to intermediate routes, and the emergence of the 2 TE's has only increased that, then your theory would possibly hold more water. With a plethora of guys who tend to have a lot of the same skillsets (as far as running certain routes and catching the ball), Edelman apparently is not one of the better WR options, at least in the mind of Bill Belichick anyway.

I will give you the fact that he does look like he plays with a lot of heart and passion, giving his 'all' on just about every play. He did look pretty good when taking over Welker's role in the 2009 playoffs, so one would think that he may be able to replicate that performance to some degree---but not anywhere on the level that Welker himself brings it. If Wes was gone or hurt, I would certainly want to see Edelman given another chance in that role again; but no one knows if that will ever happen, or if he can carve out a niche for himself with some other effective WR role, which seems doubtful with his skillset + the level of competition in front of him right now.

Personally I think he stays, and is a typical 'value' Belichickian player; one who offers versatility in all 3 phases with a low cost to boot. However, 'where' he is slotted position-wise, and how much he contributes is certainly up for much debate.

As AndyJohnson says is so many words (paraphrasing) "Edelman is kind of like a jack of all trades, but masters none." In other words, he can offer something as one of the roster #45-53 guys, but don't count on him to excel or contribute too much. I do think he is an effective punt returner, but that alone probably isn't enough to win over a job, as someone else could do it--to a lesser degree. I think his heart, committment, and versatility win him over a spot again this year, but I really don't want him as a DB again.

I think he stays without really ever being on the bubble as some think, but I can also understand the debate with the heightened roster competition. If Welker goes (which I certainly hope does not happen) then Edelman may be re-upped next year, otherwise I really think this may be his last yr here.

Keep in mind that I do appreciate him, and I am a Edelman supporter, but the level of competition has certainly increased in certain areas too.
 
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Edelman has the grand distinction of being the worst player on offense and the worst player on defense...

Did you see Sergio try to play defense? Or see Slater try to play defense, or offense?

Edelman should be cut only when Slater is cut first.
(Sergio being cut is a foregone conclusion.)
 
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