"Draft Redux" - Don Banks

[patsfan-1982]

Wow, you guys are the Patriot suck up and Kool Aid drinkers that people make fun of. Regardless of spelling. James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga were All-Americans as was Clay Matthews. The Patriots have failed miserably in the draft the last 4 years, that's why they are struggling now.

2006 - Maroney and Jackson
2007 - Merriweather
2008 - Mayo and Wheatley
2009 - Chung and Brace

Not one impact player there and that include Mayo who has struggled all year.

Who did they pass up on .

2006 - Maurice Jones-Drew or DeAngelo Williams, Greg Jennings taken in the pick slot the Patriots traded
2007 - Jon Beason, taken one pick after Merriweather
2008 - Leodis McKelvin and pick forfeited or Kevin Smith
2009 - Michael Oher, James L. Rey M. Clay Matthews Jr. Vontae Davis

And whoever said Davis doesn't fit the system should not post about football. Parcells drafted him, its the same system.

Try the Cherry Kool-Aid, its the best.

Vontae Davis only has 3 INT's this year and 2 of them came off of two ugly throws by brady forceing the ball in to double coverage

moss had 8 rec for 213 yerds and 2 TD's averageing 30 yerd a catch vs Vontae Davis in 2 games he is not a shutdown corner just yet

i do think they should have picked Matthews with there first round pick

or at lest James Laurinaitis in the 2th round i think they picked chung to high

2006 we all know chad jackson sucks he was a bad pick but maroney dose not get the ball a nuff to get yerds he only has 5 games in he's career with 20 or more att and he is averageing 90 yerd's in dose games


2007 they picked Merriweather. yes they could of had Jon Beason but BB dose not draft LB's that small it's not going to happen if he would have been a good player for the pats or not. we will never know,

2008 he picked mayo he did win DROY the only player that may have been better at he's spot is ryan clady,

but mayo is a good player he is just not patrick willis, and he never will be

but i do think that the tuna is better at drafting then BB but that dose not meen that BB is bad at darfting

just cause one team can do something better then the patriots dose not meen the pats are bad at that one thing

 

[mayoclinic]

As far as this guy geddie72, he may be a bit over-dramatic going on about how Bill ruined the Pats, but he's got some solid argument regarding our draft classes. We haven't been good enough in drafting to replace the talent that allowed us to win Super Bowls. Bellichick has drafted some solid players, but he hasn't hit on playmakers that we relied on when we were winning our SBs. Look at our team and honestly ask yourself why we are not winning the games we are accustomed to winning. We just don't have the talent.

The problem is, geddie72 doesn't seem to be interested in reasonable discussion, just inflammatory posting. I acknowledged in post #18 that he had some valid points and attempted to address them in a non-inflammatory way, but never got a response.

Generally, people who start out with statements like "BB has ruined the team" and then call anyone who disagrees in the slightest a "Kool-Aid drinker" is more interested in being inflammatory and hearing themselves talk than in actually having a discussion.

 

[mayoclinic]

Go on all you want about my frantic typing.

2003 - Ty Warren was there at 12, they took him.
2004 - Wilfolk was there as 21, they took him.

Positions of need on a Super Bowl contender.

2008 - They wanted Mayo, they trade back, but at least they took him.

2009 - They traded out of the 1st round, why? To take Patrick Chung.

And the Patriots defense is predicated on D-Lineman that tie up blockers and open it up for the LB's. Go watch the highlight films from 2001-2004. Its Tedy, Ted Johnson, Willie, Vrabel making plays.

The Patriots could have easily restocked their linebacking crew. They didn't. The Giants beat the undefeated Patriots with a mediocre secondary. The Colts won in 2006 with a mediocre secondary. Why? Front 7. This team doesn't have a great one and it makes guys like Butler, Wilhite, Meriweather all look worse. Deal with it folks. They are 8-5, its ok to criticize, they are still a great organization but they've lost their way. Let's see if they get it back before Brady is 38 or playing for Dallas.

I'm not sure what your point is. It seems to be something like "we took linemen in 2003-2004 but now we're passing up on DLs and LBs for secondary players". Is that correct?

First, if your point is that BB waited way to long to restock the LB position and has passed up a ton of guys who could have contributed, you'll get no argument from this board. That's been discussed a thousand times, and even the staunchest Kool-Aid drinker probably wishes that BB had addressed the LB position much earlier.

BB took a DL in 2009, Ron Brace. He hasn't done squat yet, but that doesn't mean that he won't. I personally would have liked him to take 1-2 LBs in 2009.

BB also passed up Karlos Dansby in 2004 in favor of Ben Watson. Horrible move. One of the worst draft moves he's ever made, IMHO. Watson's been ok (sort of like Maroney), but Dansby was a perfect fit at SILB which was a long-term need, and also had the versatility to play OLB. I think we would have won a couple more SBs if we had just made that one pick.

And as solid as Ty Warren has been, I wanted us to take Troy Polamalu in 2003 and still wish he had. Solid 3-4 DE's (not Richard Seymour types, but very good ones nonetheless) can be found later in the draft. Warren's been good, but Polamalu has been all world.

BB has missed his share. It's not particularly different now form 2003-2004. Time will tell how good the 2009 draft class is, or whether he made a mistake passing on some of the LBs out there.

I think many of your points are valid, but statements like "BB has ruined the Patriots", "the Patriots have lost their way", and calling anyone who disagrees with anything you say a "Kool Aid drinker" suggest that you aren't actually interested in rational discussion, but just in fanning the flames and being a troll.

 

[condon84]

So what's your take on Pioli's contribution to the mess or is it al BB because he's still here?

He's accountable to some degree because he's the one that lines up all the players for Belichick to look over. But ultimately, I think Belichick shoulders the blame.

For instance, lets say Pioli has a group of players that he's identified as potential Patriot players and has scouted them heavily. He gives the list to Belichick and Belichick does his own film study/scouting on the players on the list. From his own scouting, Belichick then makes the final decision on who he wants. What we don't know is who were the players on the list that Belichick passed up. Looking at the past drafts, there were some real gems that we passed over. It's conceivable to believe that those studs were on the list but Belichick decided to pick someone else. So, although Pioli is accountable for including the Chad Jacksons and Kevin O'Connells on the list of players for Belichick to look over, Pioli also probably had some studs on that list that Belichick passed up. Utlimately, the blame goes to Belichick because he has the final decision.

Another point, I think it's a cumulative effect of having averages draft classes in successive years that is taking it's toll. If it was every other year, then maybe we could have absorbed the bad picks a little better. But looking at the players that we chose from the Chad Jackson class up until last year, we just don't have enough. Coupled that with the awful free agent signings, then what we see now is the result of mediocre personnel decision making.

I think it speaks volumes of the great picks earlier this decade (like Brady, Wilfork, Warren, etc) that we can still field a very good team despite the mediocre personnel decisions recently.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think it speaks volumes of the great picks earlier this decade (like Brady, Wilfork, Warren, etc) that we can still field a very good team despite the mediocre personnel decisions recently.

Interesting that you list Warren as a "great pick". I always wished we would have taken Troy Polamalu.

I have nothing against Warren, who has been solid for us. I've never said a bad word against him. But he was a red chip prospect at a position of need. Troy Polamalu was a blue chip guy. I'll take those guys any day. Which is why I hope we get a blue chip guy like Rolando McClain over a red chip pass rusher.

I understand the importance of building the lines. But I also think that you don't pass up the chance to get a difference maker.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: "Draft Redux"-Don Banks

The only problem i have with BB's drafts was '07 we could have had David Harris and Lamar Woodley both (they were my binky's) within a couple of picks. I like Merriweather i think he just needs to be more consistant.

 

[condon84]

Interesting that you list Warren as a "great pick". I always wished we would have taken Troy Polamalu.

I have nothing against Warren, who has been solid for us. I've never said a bad word against him. But he was a red chip prospect at a position of need. Troy Polamalu was a blue chip guy. I'll take those guys any day. Which is why I hope we get a blue chip guy like Rolando McClain over a red chip pass rusher.

I understand the importance of building the lines. But I also think that you don't pass up the chance to get a difference maker.

It would have been awesome to get Troy, but at the time, we really needed a DL. Also, I believe that was our best draft class and the guys on that draft helped us win two more SBs with Warren being a solid contributer his first season and starting this second season (both seasons being Super Bowl seasons). So I can't really get too upset about that draft. Hell, even Bethel made some plays that year!

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: "Draft Redux"-Don Banks

The only problem i have with BB's drafts was '07 we could have had David Harris and Lamar Woodley both (they were my binky's) within a couple of picks. I like Merriweather i think he just needs to be more consistant.

Would we have been better of with David Harris and LaMarr Woodley in 2007 (we would have had to use both of our 1st round picks, #24 and #28, to get them) or Brandon Meriweather and Jerod Mayo. I'll take the latter, no question, and I like Harris and Woodley (and liked them at time).

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Go on all you want about my frantic typing.

2003 - Ty Warren was there at 12, they took him.
2004 - Wilfolk was there as 21, they took him.

Positions of need on a Super Bowl contender.

2008 - They wanted Mayo, they trade back, but at least they took him.

2009 - They traded out of the 1st round, why? To take Patrick Chung.

And the Patriots defense is predicated on D-Lineman that tie up blockers and open it up for the LB's. Go watch the highlight films from 2001-2004. Its Tedy, Ted Johnson, Willie, Vrabel making plays.

The Patriots could have easily restocked their linebacking crew. They didn't. The Giants beat the undefeated Patriots with a mediocre secondary. The Colts won in 2006 with a mediocre secondary. Why? Front 7. This team doesn't have a great one and it makes guys like Butler, Wilhite, Meriweather all look worse. Deal with it folks. They are 8-5, its ok to criticize, they are still a great organization but they've lost their way. Let's see if they get it back before Brady is 38 or playing for Dallas.

It started with Deus Irae

Then Condon 84 shows up

Now this ****** is here.

What's up with the "spawn of the ******s"?

 

[rsd]

It started with Deus Irae

Then Condon 84 shows up

Now this ****** is here.

What's up with the "spawn of the ******s"?

:singing: "They don't die, they multiply!" :singing:

 

[condon84]

It started with Deus Irae

Then Condon 84 shows up

Now this ****** is here.

What's up with the "spawn of the ******s"?

You never have solid arguments other than attacking posters who are critical of the Patriots. I doubt you even read my posts or Deus' posts. You only probably see that it's my post and automatically assume that you don't agree with it, because I can be critical.

In your little brain, we are still stuck in a 21 game winning streak and everything is great.

There's a reason why we are not winning games we are accustomed to winning. Why don't you give me your reason why we aren't winning the way we used to win and have a discussion.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Again, how would Leodis Mckelvin make this a "great team," seeing as according to you, BB ruined it?

 

[lostjumper]

Hey PatsfaninPittsburgh,

I have forgotten more football than you'll ever know.

You've also forgotten quite a bit of spelling and grammar as well

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Hey PatsfaninPittsburgh,

I have forgotten more football than you'll ever know.

And to whoever said they would rather have Meriweather and Mayo over Woodley and Harris, you really don't know much about football. Woodley, is a great passrushing linebacker and Harris is a borderline pro-bowler.

Meriweather is a middle of the pack safety. I can provide a list of better safeties and Mayo had a good ROOKIE year. He's terrible in pass coverage and when he's asked to rush the passer can't.

Listen, pittsfan, I understand you wear Pats pajamas at night. That's ok. Maybe you need a website, where people only root, root, root for the home team.

The Pats haven't won it in 6 years. The quicker people in this town accept this is not a great team, the better. Its also going to get worse before it gets better if it does at all.


Hey Kool-Aid.....Oh yeah

Uhhh.. well... no...but... You may have forgotten everything about football.

It's amazing some reject shows up here highlighting some posting on some clown website

Sorry pal, Condon and Irae are leading blog ******s. You need to elevate your game.


Go away and let the adults talk.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

DRC isn't a shut-down corner, he's a classic feast or famine CB. He'll make the highlight reel pick but give up a ton of yardage beforehand. After the Colts game some people said he could have helped us in that matchup. He got burnt for 84 yds and 2 TDs when he faced Manning.

and if we took DRC we would be having even more of the "BB never takes LBs" threads

 

[JackBauer]

Just to clarify for the mindless nitpickers, it was Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie I was referring to. A 6'2 shut down corner that the Patriots don't have and haven't had since Ty Law. He'll be in Pro Bowl before Jerrod don't call me OJ Mayo.

And you STILL can't spell his name right. I see two options: you're 15 years old or you're very, very stupid; either way, I don't think anyone here really cares about your opinion.

 

[reflexblue]

Sticks and stones Jack, and my sports and regular IQ are probably 10x yours.

After reading this along with other posts of yours i can only say that the minimum age to be on here is 13 you must have lied.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You've also forgotten quite a bit of spelling and grammar as well

And counting skills.

 

[JackBauer]

Sticks and stones Jack, and my sports and regular IQ are probably 10x yours.

Given that you can't even spell at an elementary level, somehow I doubt your regular IQ exceeds double digits.

 

[wilfork is beastin']

Yes, but if they took Beason or started taking linebackers in 2006 they wouldn't have got to the point where they are now.

You people realize their linebacking crew is Adalius Thomas a FA bust, Tully Banta Cain a situational pass rusher at best, Derrick Burgess a washed up pass rusher, Pierre Woods a JAG, Gary Guyton a walk on marginal Linebacker and Mayo.

Its not Bruschi, Vrabel, Ted Johnson and Willie anymore. Heck its not even Phifer, Bruschi, and Vrabel.

If you were to rank their linebacking crew against the league it would be one of the worst.

I can name name at least 8 LB corps worse than the Patriots' right now. I'm well aware that our pass rush sucks, but how exactly would Beason, who's a Cover2 4-3 MLB with 2 sacks to his name help fix that? Don't get me wrong, I'm extrememly jealous of the Packers with what they got in Clay Matthews and I can't for the life of me get over the fact that we passed on Sintim. But posting things like "the team is ruined" just makes me laugh