"Draft Redux" - Don Banks

[mayoclinic]

And to whoever said they would rather have Meriweather and Mayo over Woodley and Harris, you really don't know much about football. Woodley, is a great passrushing linebacker and Harris is a borderline pro-bowler.

Meriweather is a middle of the pack safety. I can provide a list of better safeties and Mayo had a good ROOKIE year. He's terrible in pass coverage and when he's asked to rush the passer can't.

That was me who said I'd rather have Meriweather and Mayo over Woodley and Harris. So I obviously don't know much about football, compared to a genius like you.

First, I said I liked both Woodley and Harris. With that in mind, Harris mainly a 2 down run stuffing SILB. Mayo had, as you admit, a great rookie year, and he's been injured this year. I reserve judgment on how he will turn out, but he is a 3 down player for us and a defensive captain in his 2nd year, and BB values those things very highly.

Woodley would have been a fine pick instead of Meriweather, but we had a severe need at safety at the time. And anyone who calls Meriweather a "middle of the pack" safety really doesn't know much about football, to use your words. He's not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu, but he's one of the better free safeties in the NFL right now and has been our defensive MVP through much of the season.

As I said, you're not interested in rational discussion. You just want to throw insults at people so that you can hear yourself talked about.

I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[Calciumee]

Just to clarify for the mindless nitpickers, it was Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie I was referring to. A 6'2 shut down corner that the Patriots don't have and haven't had since Ty Law. He'll be in Pro Bowl before Jerrod don't call me OJ Mayo.

Oh DRC, I know his name isn't easiest to spell, but...

2008 - Leodis McKelvin and pick forfeited or Kevin Smith

...it isn't spelt Leodis McKelvin

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Oh DRC, I know his name isn't easiest to spell, but...



...it isn't spelt Leodis McKelvin

EPIC WIN. :rocker:

 

[jays52]

Yes, but if they took Beason or started taking linebackers in 2006 they wouldn't have got to the point where they are now.

You people realize their linebacking crew is Adalius Thomas a FA bust, Tully Banta Cain a situational pass rusher at best, Derrick Burgess a washed up pass rusher, Pierre Woods a JAG, Gary Guyton a walk on marginal Linebacker and Mayo.

Its not Bruschi, Vrabel, Ted Johnson and Willie anymore. Heck its not even Phifer, Bruschi, and Vrabel.

If you were to rank their linebacking crew against the league it would be one of the worst.

Here's the main issue I have with your points. You are simply pointing to hype players around the league with full hindsight. This is compounded by your flagrant lack of knowledge when it comes to player evaluations. Just because a player is a linebacker doesn't mean that player fits every defense. Just because a player is a corner doesn't mean that player fits every coverage. Just because a player is a tackle doesn't mean that player fits every blocking scheme.

It's clear that you are passionate, and it would serve you well to direct that passion towards learning about schemes and what kind of attributes are required to execute effectively in each one.

 

[jays52]

Let's take a moment for some genuine reflection here. Let's take a look at just some of the players drafted/signed UDFA under BB.

Richard Seymour
Tom Brady
Dan Koppen
Matt Light
Logan Mankins
Ty Warren
Richard Seymour
Asante Samuel
Stephen Gostkowski

The common thread in the above list? All are pro-bowlers. Now, let's take a look at some players outside of that list who became at one time or another highly competent NFL starters.

Deion Branch
David Givens
Tully Banta-Cain
Brandon Meriweather
Jerod Mayo
Matt Cassel
Eugene Wilson


Most teams would kill for that kind of draft record. To disparage it is insane. While this list is certainly impressive, some of the draft maneuvers and tallent continuity is not immune to criticism. Let's take an objective look at some strategic errors.

My main complaint is the inability to create a tallent pipeline. Instead of drafting the replacements a few years before the turnover, the initial tallent has been allowed to regress. The linebacker unit is the best example of this. This is especially true given the experience required to make an effective transition between college linebacker/end and NFL linebacker. While I understand that this can be cap prohibitive, it is the mark of cohesive units such as the Pitt defense.

While the tallent acquisition has not been without faults, it has been one of the best in the league this decade. The team has staffed exceptional depth, developed a littany of All-Pro starters, and has consistenly competed for championships.

 

[TriplecHamp]

After reading through all the grammer bull, some of the posters in here are making some valid arguments. Heres mine, A) BB did not ruin this team, this team isnt even ruined. We are not an elite team anymore and drafting and poor signings are the cuase of that. B) Stuborness is to blame- I think we need a change in the system. We cannot keep looking for the perfect backer because we never know when he's going to come along. Maybe instead of utilizing a two gap system we should move to a one gap where athletes are more inclined to shine. The NFL has gotten alot faster over the past 6 years when we won our last SB. Even a prime Teddy, Vrabel, Roman, etc would not look as good as we did back then. The key to a good defense in the NFL these days is speed. With all the reading involved in our system in compromises some of that speed and were back to average. Right now the elite athletes in our system are: Wilfork, Guyton, AD, Mayo, Merriweather, and Butler. All of these players are very fast for their size and they react well. Were not playing against Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce, Hines Ward (prime) etc. Were playing against Devry Hendersons, Reggie Waynes, Santonio Holmes, and Pierre Garcons. Players like these can sprint past a read based system, see the Saints game, Colts game, etc. With the explosion of the spread offense its virtually imposible to coy a good quaterback into making bad decision. We dont have the speed in the secondary to keep up with the better wideouts.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Here's the main issue I have with your points. You are simply pointing to hype players around the league with full hindsight.

Exactly. What I am looking forward to are his triumphant pre-draft posts where he identified all these guys prior to our picks. Uh, where are those links again?

Hindsight is 20/20. But as Jays52 has noted, yours isn't even that because of your lack of understanding of scheme and the suitability of players for their role.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: "Draft Redux"-Don Banks

I mention in my column all of Belichick's mistakes since 2006. This year was no different.

There were 3 impact LB's available when the Pats drafted. Laurenaitis, Melanagua, Matthews. Matthews was NFL pedigree and a pass rusher. We also passed on Michael Oher and probably could have traded up to get a Harvin.

Nope, the genius took Pat Chung (9 snaps Sunday), Ron Brace (0 snaps Sunday or any Sunday) Darius Butler (a project) and Vollmer solid. 1-4. That's pretty much Bill's average lately.

Parcells a superior drafter took Vontae Davis over Butler. The Pats had to trade out to save the Krafts some Patriot Place Money.

The Pats could have had Oher, Matthews, Laurenaitis, Butler

Davis, Laurenaitis, Melanagua, Vollmer

Or Davis, Laurenaitis, Butler, Vollmer.

Bill has ruined this team. Go get some Value bill, by the way that #1 pick they have in 2011. They'll screw it up.

The Last Night of The Patriots Dynasty | Bleacher Report

It's great that you can add 1+1 and get 3 or even 4..

The Pats could NOT have had Oher, Matthews, Laurenaitus and Butler.

First off, If the Pats take Oher or Matthews at 23, then its unlikely that Butler, Davis, Laurenaitus or the other of Matthews or Oher last to their pick in the 2nd round. What you forget is that once that first pick changes, other picks can change also.. So, its unlikely that the Pats would have ended up with ANY of your scenarios...

Chung took 9 snaps with the defense. How many did he take on special teams?

Butler is a project? Yes, he is.. So is every other frigging rookie taken in the draft.

Next, your article is poorly written. You have sentences in the middle of paragraphs that refer to nothing. Your punctuation is lousy. You have numerous incorrect facts in it. And its basically just a whiny piece that offers nothing of real substance. Not to mention over-stating what players on other teams have done. Vontae Davis, a shut down corner????

Thanks for providing something that I can use to light a fire in my fireplace.. Otherwise, your artilcle isn't worht much of anything.

 

[DaBruinz]

With all the picks the Pats had going into the 2009 draft, I said this was a make or break draft for the BB-Brady era. Although a lot of people are satisfied with their draft class, I feel this class is going to set them back even further. I don't like it at all.

Vollmer and maybe Butler show the most promise. That's about it.

Lets see. of the 12 draft picks, 8 made the team out of camp, 1 was IRed because he tore his ACL during the Rookie Camp. 1 was PUPed and then IRed after 2 games because he tweaked his knee. 1 was IRed after TC. And the last was cut and signed to the practice squad. The other 8 are on the active roster and have seen some game time.

As others have mentioned, the Pats seem to have scored with Vollmer and he seems like he'll be able to take over for Light with no issues. And he could be an ALL-PRO (which is better than Pro-Bowl) caliber tackle.

Butler, Chung, Pryor, and Edelman all have shown to be rookies, but also have shown a lot of promise. Pryor has shown the most, earning a spot right out of camp and being a regular in the rotation. To the point where the Pats were forced to trade LeKevin Smith to make a spot for Pryor.

Yet, you think that this draft set the Pats back.. And you wonder why I have the opinion I do of you...

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: "Draft Redux"-Don Banks

Belichick would've taken the envelope himself to pick Harvin if the Vikes didn't snatch him away.

Aye. I remember how everyone on this forum panned Brad Childress (who, don't get me wrong, is not a very good coach) when he said that he snatched Percy Harvin away from the Pats. Could you imagine what he would do in our offense? The logic behind the bashing of Childress was that Harvin is a Florida receiver and there has never been a great Florida receiver. On top of that, others were pointing at Chad Jackson for reasons of why we shouldn't draft him.

 

[furley]

Ty Warren hasn't been to a Pro Bowl. And you've listed Richard Seymour twice.

You can check here: Pro Bowl Online - Past Pro Bowls

But I knew before looking up any information since I don't recall Warren ever being named or as an injury replacement.

Let's take a moment for some genuine reflection here. Let's take a look at just some of the players drafted/signed UDFA under BB.

Richard Seymour
Tom Brady
Dan Koppen
Matt Light
Logan Mankins
Ty Warren
Richard Seymour
Asante Samuel
Stephen Gostkowski

The common thread in the above list? All are pro-bowlers.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wow, you guys are the Patriot suck up and Kool Aid drinkers that people make fun of. Regardless of spelling. James Laurinaitis and Rey Maualuga were All-Americans as was Clay Matthews. The Patriots have failed miserably in the draft the last 4 years, that's why they are struggling now.

2006 - Maroney and Jackson
2007 - Merriweather
2008 - Mayo and Wheatley
2009 - Chung and Brace

Not one impact player there and that include Mayo who has struggled all year.

Who did they pass up on .

Not one impact player? You must have a different definition of IMPACT than everyone else. Not to mention that you are cherry picking to suit your needs.

You slam Maroney, but you are really don't know anything about him.. He's 2 years younger than Addai..Addai spent 5 years in college. So he should have been the more polished running back.. But, if you've watched anything, you'd know that Addai has regressed since his rookie year in the running game, though he's still adequate in the passing game. Williams? Until last year, the Panther fans considered him a bust.. Jones-Drew is the only one you mentioned that did anything.. That's the nature of the draft.

OH, btw, is BB supposed to be clairvoyant and able to see that Maroney was going to have a separated shoulder and then against the Jets in 2008, break his shoulder?

Meriweather has truly stepped it up this year and continues to get better. He may never be Rodney Harrison or Ronnie Lott, but he won't be confused with Antwan Harris either.

Mayo is in his 2nd year and his 2nd defense. (3-4 last year, 4-3 this year). Is he going through growing pains? Yep.. As everyone does.

2006 - Maurice Jones-Drew or DeAngelo Williams, Greg Jennings taken in the pick slot the Patriots traded
2007 - Jon Beason, taken one pick after Merriweather
2008 - Leodis McKelvin and pick forfeited or Kevin Smith
2009 - Michael Oher, James L. Rey M. Clay Matthews Jr. Vontae Davis

And whoever said Davis doesn't fit the system should not post about football. Parcells drafted him, its the same system.

Try the Cherry Kool-Aid, its the best.

I have news for you. The Miami defensive system is NOT the same as that Patriots system.. Parcells is the GM. Not the Coach.. They run a 1 gap system on defense. They also play less zone and more man coverages than the Pats. Many times playing in a Cover 1.

McKelvin - Not a game breaker, unless you mean coughing it up for the otehr team.

2009 picks - Yes, Those guys have already had their busts bronzed for Canton./..

Dude - I hate to say this, but you opened yourself up for it. Most of the people on this board have more football knowledge in their pinkies than you've shown in any of your posts.. For you to be slamming people like you are is pretty laughable..

 

[mayoclinic]

He's not worth it. Give it up.

 

[mgteich]

In the end, I expect that most posters are very unresonable in what they expect out of a draft. Although, I also would have drafted a linebacker with one of the first three picks, this group has to be more than anyone has any right to expect. The draft is a crapshoot.

Do we have a right to expect Belichick to pick up 1 who started much of 2009, 1 likely 2009 starter, 1 likely future starter, 6 2009 contributers and 6 future prospects? Let's take inventory.

STARTER QUALITY
Vollmer and Butler

2009 CONTRIBUTERS
Offense - Edelman, Hoyer
Defense - Chung, Pryor
Special teams - Ingram, Lockett

WE'LL SEE IN 2009
Offense - Tate, Orhnberger, Bussey
Defense - McKenzie, Brace, Richard
========================

If half for 2009 contributers turn out to be 2010 contributers, and one of the players under "we'll see" end up being non-contributers, this will still be a solid draft with SIX solid picks. I think that history will tell that we did even better with this group of 14 players (12 draftees and 2 other rookies.

Lets see. of the 12 draft picks, 8 made the team out of camp, 1 was IRed because he tore his ACL during the Rookie Camp. 1 was PUPed and then IRed after 2 games because he tweaked his knee. 1 was IRed after TC. And the last was cut and signed to the practice squad. The other 8 are on the active roster and have seen some game time.

As others have mentioned, the Pats seem to have scored with Vollmer and he seems like he'll be able to take over for Light with no issues. And he could be an ALL-PRO (which is better than Pro-Bowl) caliber tackle.

Butler, Chung, Pryor, and Edelman all have shown to be rookies, but also have shown a lot of promise. Pryor has shown the most, earning a spot right out of camp and being a regular in the rotation. To the point where the Pats were forced to trade LeKevin Smith to make a spot for Pryor.

Yet, you think that this draft set the Pats back.. And you wonder why I have the opinion I do of you...

 

[bagwell368]

Re: "Draft Redux"-Don Banks

I mention in my column all of Belichick's mistakes since 2006. This year was no different.

There were 3 impact LB's available when the Pats drafted. Laurenaitis, Melanagua, Matthews. Matthews was NFL pedigree and a pass rusher. We also passed on Michael Oher and probably could have traded up to get a Harvin.

Nope, the genius took Pat Chung (9 snaps Sunday), Ron Brace (0 snaps Sunday or any Sunday) Darius Butler (a project) and Vollmer solid. 1-4. That's pretty much Bill's average lately.

Parcells a superior drafter took Vontae Davis over Butler. The Pats had to trade out to save the Krafts some Patriot Place Money.

The Pats could have had Oher, Matthews, Laurenaitis, Butler

Davis, Laurenaitis, Melanagua, Vollmer

Or Davis, Laurenaitis, Butler, Vollmer.

Bill has ruined this team. Go get some Value bill, by the way that #1 pick they have in 2011. They'll screw it up.

The Last Night of The Patriots Dynasty | Bleacher Report

You are clueless. Laurenaitis would have no place on this team. Judging DL's part way into year 1 is a joke. The Pats have 3 safties with experience that are NFL average (slightly below in the case of Sanders), and you have already judged Chung a failure?

Welcome to my ignore file, douche bag.

 

[mayoclinic]

In the end, I expect that most posters are very unresonable in what they expect out of a draft. Although, I also would have drafted a linebacker with one of the first three picks, this group has to be more than anyone has any right to expect. The draft is a crapshoot.

Do we have a right to expect Belichick to pick up 1 who started much of 2009, 1 likely 2009 starter, 1 likely future starter, 6 2009 contributers and 6 future prospects? Let's take inventory.

STARTER QUALITY
Vollmer and Butler

2009 CONTRIBUTERS
Offense - Edelman, Hoyer
Defense - Chung, Pryor
Special teams - Ingram, Lockett

WE'LL SEE IN 2009
Offense - Tate, Orhnberger, Bussey
Defense - McKenzie, Brace, Richard
========================

If half for 2009 contributers turn out to be 2010 contributers, and one of the players under "we'll see" end up being non-contributers, this will still be a solid draft with SIX solid picks. I think that history will tell that we did even better with this group of 14 players (12 draftees and 2 other rookies.

ProFootballWeekly's Nolan Nawrocki successfully predicted 15 of the 32 first round picks in the 2009 draft (exact matches, player with team). Here's what he had to say about the Pat's draft afterwards:

"New England Patriots — Not seeing any value in the first round, Bill Belichick traded down multiple times, slipping out of the first round entirely. Receiving two additional 2010 second-round picks, from the Titans and Jaguars, is a big plus and could bring two future starters. Belichick was very savvy moving up and down the draft board, which he does as well as anyone in the NFL, executing a league-high seven trades over the weekend. He had also picked up a second-round pick for QB Matt Cassel. S Patrick Chung, DT Ron Brace and CB Darius Butler all have starter potential, as does Hawaii LS Jake Ingram. OT Sebastian Vollmer and WR Brandon Tate were reaches with pressing injury concerns, but both fit the Patriots’ offense very well, and LB Tyrone McKenzie could become a solid pro. With one of the NFL’s deepest rosters, Round Five on likely will not provide any value. The acquisition of future picks and the ability to wheel and deal make this draft a win for Belichick, player personnel director Nick Caserio and senior football advisor Floyd Reese. The Patriots also added WR Greg Lewis before the draft and dealt starting CB Ellis Hobbs to the Eagles.
Grade: Outstanding"

In retrospect, Vollmer clearly was no "reach" at all, and may end up as the best OT out of the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Pryor is a steal? The guy hasn't made any plays in the regular season for you to say that. It's great that a late round pick made the team, but he's hardly a steal. He doesn't stand out when he is in there. He is basically another LeKevin Smith. Yay. The fact that Pryor is playing more than Brace is more indicative of how awful the Ron Brace pick was.

You clearly don't watch the games. Pryor stands out every time he's out there. He's always doing his job and is rarely taken out of the play. The fact remains that the guy is all hustle.

As far as this guy geddie72, he may be a bit over-dramatic going on about how Bill ruined the Pats, but he's got some solid argument regarding our draft classes. We haven't been good enough in drafting to replace the talent that allowed us to win Super Bowls. Bellichick has drafted some solid players, but he hasn't hit on playmakers that we relied on when we were winning our SBs. Look at our team and honestly ask yourself why we are not winning the games we are accustomed to winning. We just don't have the talent.

Please talk about not being able to replace the talent we've lost and such. Tell me something, how old were McGinest, Bruschi, etc, when the Pats won their 1st? How about their 3rd? People like you act like the EXPERIENCE means nothing and that TALENT means everything. I have news for you.. You're wrong.

Also, the pats have had the talent to win, unforntuately, the league has seen fit to go out of their way to ensure that the Mannings get their rings.

Average draft classes, awful free agent pickups. Moss and Welker were great pickups, but football is a team sport, and you need to supplement your team with good/great players everywhere to be an elite team. We are what are record says we are. Bill had a great run of drafts and free agency earlier this decade but the last few years haven't been that good.

Clearly someone who doesn't remember the 2001 team. Who were all these good/great players that the Pats used to supplement what they had? Torrance Small? Charles Johnson? Any of the other 20 something JAGs they signed that year?

The 2001 Pats didn't have 25 players on their roster with 3 years experience OR LESS.... In fact, the 2001 Pats had 31 players who had 5 OR MORE years experience...

People like you always claim that the "last few drafts haven't been good," but you refuse to give the players time to develop. You want instant results. You only look at the picks of the draft, not the other players acquired or the other picks added.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why are people judging a draft in its rookie season?

 

[mayoclinic]

Why are people judging a draft in its rookie season?

Stupidity.

 

[captain stone]

Pryor is a steal? The guy hasn't made any plays in the regular season for you to say that. It's great that a late round pick made the team, but he's hardly a steal. He doesn't stand out when he is in there. He is basically another LeKevin Smith. Yay. The fact that Pryor is playing more than Brace is more indicative of how awful the Ron Brace pick was.

As far as this guy geddie72, he may be a bit over-dramatic going on about how Bill ruined the Pats, but he's got some solid argument regarding our draft classes. We haven't been good enough in drafting to replace the talent that allowed us to win Super Bowls. Bellichick has drafted some solid players, but he hasn't hit on playmakers that we relied on when we were winning our SBs. Look at our team and honestly ask yourself why we are not winning the games we are accustomed to winning. We just don't have the talent.

Average draft classes, awful free agent pickups. Moss and Welker were great pickups, but football is a team sport, and you need to supplement your team with good/great players everywhere to be an elite team. We are what are record says we are. Bill had a great run of drafts and free agency earlier this decade but the last few years haven't been that good.

This post is The Answer, The Truth & The Way.

The reasons why we haven't won a SB in the past 4 years can be found right here; just add Bill's ******ed coaching decisions plus the worst pair of Coordinators in football.

Krafty needs to remove final say on personnel - both college & pro - from Bill, hire an outside voice with fresh ideas for GM, and insist that Bill hire professional Coordinators instead of the incompetent, mindless lap-dogs we're stuck with now.