Dowling Injury Woes Continue, Fletcher Remains Out

[RJB87]

Are you seriously stating that you feel you are a better evaluator of football talent than Bill Belichick. So much better that you can do it by watching a handful of college games each week and still out evaluate his film study, personal interviews, workouts, combine, Sr Bowl workouts, etc, etc?

You missed the funny.

 

[shmessy]

Back to my original point. Bill has zero rings as a head coach without Brady. How many people have rings on this patriot team???? The defense may improve, but as of now they have zero impact game changing players ala Revis, Ngata, Willis. I guess you like em young!!

Ngata, Revis, Willis = 0 rings.

How many times are you going to bump your head into that wall before you realize you have a concussion.

Maybe an individual sport like tennis is a better fit for you.

 

[hodgey]

Ngata, Revis, Willis = 0 rings.

How many times are you going to bump your head into that wall before you realize you have a concussion.

Maybe an individual sport like tennis is a better fit for you.

Sports have long since past me. I spend my days now running a successful business. Perhaps you should consider a career as a professional message board poster.

 

[PlainOldEd]

So you are advocating a site where you have no place? Where are unobjective negative people like you going to post. Sorry, but none of your posts in this thread are particularly intelligent or objective.

This. :ditto:

 

[PlainOldEd]

Sports have long since past me. I spend my days now running a successful business. Perhaps you should consider a career as a professional message board poster.

Do you put the same thoughtful insight into your business that you do into your posts? This is why the economy is in trouble..........

 

[kudzif]

LOL The I'm better then BB because I have football manager on my computer
syndrome.

I could tell duane starks sucked as a corner , but i'm not a great corner.

 

[kudzif]

5-1 and alone at the top of the AFC.

The only team to have a winning record every year for the past 11 years.

Stratomatic Assclown.

That is due to Belichick the coach making up for deficiences created by Belichick the GM.

 

[Deus Irae]

Predictable pathetic responses. Not one of the responses by the Deus, Bauer and the other fanboys could refute my points. You guys make me laugh. You're just fanboys, maybe this website should be split up between people who ONLY want to say happy things and those intelligent fans who want to be objective. There isn't an ounce of objectivity from a majority of dissenting posts. You throw out insults like school yard children.

And who brought up the 2010 draft??? We're not talking about the 2010 draft. It was a great draft, ON OFFENSE. Plus, you don't debate a topic by bringing up another topic.

Last 3 drafts - We had the four 2nd round picks draft, ok at best that draft was average, I guess you could say a trade turned into Gronk, but if they wanted Gronk they could have found a way to get him.

Two years ago great picks, solid draft, all on Offense. McCourty looked good, but he has been statistically the worst corner in the NFL this year. That being said, I think he turns it around.

This year, Solder, Stupid trade, Injured player, two running backs who might be good, we'll see.

Bill made a decision in the best defensive draft in years, and that is proving out btw, to spend his draft capital on Dowling. It's been a bust. What is the only flaw on this team. Pass defense.

Watt, Fairley, Kerrigan, Liuget, Clayborn, Taylor, Heyward, Reed, Sheard, Ayers, all more impactful than No pick and Dowling.

The run to the Super Bowl begins now, as of right now this pick looks horrendous. If they win the Super Bowl and the Defense picks up, Bill cements himself as a great evaluator and coach. But for 4 years now he has been struggling trying to put together a middle of the road defense.

So DEUS...it has nothing to do with where they draft, it has to do with WHO they draft, and guys they draft on defense has not played up to or fit the system. Dowling however, just can't get on the damn field. To defend that is ignorant and stupid. You can't win the Dowling argument, he has been a HORRIFIC disappointment. It doesn't matter if he's healthy in 2012, they need him this season. So come to the table with facts not stupid crap, about trolls etc.

You're clowning yourself. I'll leave it for the likes of BradyFTW! (who's already alluded to at least some of it) to explain how and why, if you feel an explanation is necessary.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm surprised a patriots draft pick has attracted this many haters this fast, considering Dowling started week 1 and looked good.

I think there is some justification for it though, people see he was injury prone in college and don't understand why someone would still draft him that high.

Give him more time.

 

[DaBruinz]

Don't be such Honks. What was the rationale in Vereen over Murray?

Murray played in a better conference had more TD, Yards and Receptions than Vereen in college. The Big 12 is better than the PAC? That's debatable. As for Murray having more TDs, Yards, and Receptions, that is common when you've played one more year than the other player in the comparison. Vereen was a junior when the Pats drafted him. Murray also has less mileage left on his tires..

One guy is a star, one guy is a benchwarmer. Also if they took Murray they would not have to have drafted Ridley.

WOW.. Murray is a "STAR" after ONE GAME? Are you serious? Yeah. You heard me. He totalled 25 carries for 73 yards in his previous 5 games! Let's see what he does against teams that don't have sieves for defenses like the Rams do.

As for the reasoning behind Vereen over Murray, you clearly don't realize that they are different styles of backs. Vereen is a 3rd down type RB, similar in mold to Kevin Faulk. He's not a down-hill runner like Murray.

The Pats only had ONE RB under contract at the time of the draft. That was Woodhead. They normally carry 4-5. So, the likelihood of them drafting another RB was extremely HIGH.

Also, I find it funny that you are complaining about Dowling yet, touting Murray. Murray missed most of their pre-season with hamstring and ankle injuries. He also had a dislocated knee in 2007 and missed all of 2006 as a red-shirt...

The thing you Patriot honks don't get and its in another thread. Is with Bill's drafting its not an aberration its a trend. Get him out of the 1st round and he misses all the time. He's better with undrafted players than with drafted players. Tate over Wallace is another example. Tate had an ACL injury in college. But yet they took him anyway.

Good comparision with Belichick and Theo when it comes to Free Agency and post first round draft picks. Theo's free agents probably cost the Sox two championships and Bill's poor drafting since 2006 has cost them 2 titles MINIMUM.

The reason the Pats drafted Tate was because he had been one of the best kick-returners and punt returners in college and was growing as receiver. When they drafted Tate, the Pats had Moss and Welker as their top 2.

What you fail to consider is whether or not Wallace could succeed in the Pats system. You know, the system that is very complex. Significantly more complex than the Steelers system. Did you stop to think that maybe, jsut maybe, Wallace didn't show enough football acumen to BB during the film review. Or maybe Wallace rubbed BB the wrong way. There are very viable reasons that we aren't privy to that goes into the decision making process of picking draft picks.

The draft is a crap shoot. There is some science, but there are so many variables that you can't account for no matter how hard you try.

As for your assertion that Bill "misses all the time" outside the first round, while there are failures there, there are plenty of picks in the 2nd through 5th rounds of the draft that have been successes also. Matt Light, Nick Kaczur, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson, Gronkowski, Vollmer, Chung, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green, Dan Koppen, Ellis Hobs, James Sanders, Gostkowski, Slater, Hernandez, Mesko.

Spikes, Cunningham, Price, Brace, Mallett, Vereen, Cannon, and Ridley, the jury is still out on.

 

[DaBruinz]

My thoughts exactly Darolyn. You take flyers on guys like Dowling in the 3rd-4th round, not 33rd overall. I mean crap, even Da'Quan Bowers dropped from a top 5 pick to the middle of the 2nd rounder because of his surgery on his knee and he didn't even miss a whole year unlike Dowling. Oh, and Bowers is actually playing right now.

The only problem is that you are misinformed. Dowling didn't miss a whole year.

We missed out on so many other picks to get Dowling. I don't fault us on the New Orleans trade because that got us Shane Vereen but passing on Sheard and Reed looked bad back then and even worse now.

edit: I do disagree with you on the Murray vs Vereen statement though. The Patriots never just shove RBs into the starting lineup. You're part of protecting Tom Brady. BB and staff make sure you've got blocking down before they even consider handing you or passing you the rock.

Why does passing on Sheard and Reed look bad? They aren't playing in the same system as they would with the Pats. And Reed hasn't exactly been tearing it up for the Texans. In fact, the only reason he's getting playing time now is because of Williams going down with his season ending injury.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here's the thing the Honks won't say.

Dowling has had ankle, knee and now hip. And the hip is probably one of the worst injuries for a football player. He missed training camp, he played one game and now has not been healthy in 6 weeks. So HONKS, tell me I'm wrong, tell me this is good pick. The Patriot's defense is not at the point where they could take fliers on people. Btw, Reiss called this on draft day.

You're wrong. You can't say whether or not it's a good pick unless he's been cut before 3 years. Also, considering you don't know what type of "hip injury" it is, how can you say that it's one of the worst for a football player. For all you know, it could have been a deep bone bruise. Which, in the long run, won't mean anything.

Were you complaining last year when Hernandez went down with his hip injury? Hmm. Probably not.

Why over-react the way you are doing? You're not proving yourself to be smarter than anyone with it..

 

[DaBruinz]

Bill has been living off the fruits of picking Brady in the sixth round for a decade now. Brady has made dozens of bad picks seem insignificant due to him being one of the two best QB's ever to play. My frustration is that without one more ring he can never be considered the best. Bill in my opinion has squandered possible championship seasons due to poor personnel decisions. Its time to recognize that Bill is a great coach, maybe the best gameday gameplanner ever, but a crappy personnel guy.
Let me brace mysely for the blind mice barrage.

Wow.. Nothing like actually providing facts to support your opinion and for people to debate..

Why can't Brady be considered the best, NOW? Cause you say so?

 

[DaBruinz]

For the last several years the pundits have gushed how the Pats own the draft, and we are always in the best shape of all teams. Let me ask all the Pats fans, where is all the drafted talent on defense? Even on offense, with the exception of the tight ends? Do we have an Ed Reed, Woodson, D Ware, Ray Lewis? Loads of high draft picks, some good players, zero game changing impact players.. Intelligent responses welcome.

"Loads of High Draft picks"? Other than Mayo, the highest they've picked is 16th since Ty Warren back in 2003. After that, it's been in the 20's and 30s for the 1st round.

Many people consider Mayo to be progressing to the point where he'll be an excellent ILB. A "game changing" player.

Meriweather was doing pretty well until he decided that he'd rather freelance than listen to the coaches..

What you miss and fail to understand is that "Game Changing" players need a team around them as well. They can't do it on their own.

Yes, McCourty has regressed this season. But it's only his second season. And he's played better in the last 2 games than in the 1st four.

Patrick Chung is also a very good young player. Could he become a Rodney Harrison or an Ed Reed? Only time will tell. But he's not chopped liver. He shut down Antonio Gates. Which says A LOT about him. Especially since his coverage skills were something that people questioned.

 

[neuronet]

My thoughts exactly Darolyn. You take flyers on guys like Dowling in the 3rd-4th round, not 33rd overall. I mean crap, even Da'Quan Bowers dropped from a top 5 pick to the middle of the 2nd rounder because of his surgery on his knee and he didn't even miss a whole year unlike Dowling.

+1 true dat

The Glassy Downer pick was inexplicable at the time, and even less explicable now....WTF was BB thinking?

As Frustrating as Maroney? No.

 

[RJB87]

The only problem is that you are misinformed. Dowling didn't miss a whole year.



Why does passing on Sheard and Reed look bad? They aren't playing in the same system as they would with the Pats. And Reed hasn't exactly been tearing it up for the Texans. In fact, the only reason he's getting playing time now is because of Williams going down with his season ending injury.

Oh sorry I stand corrected. He managed to start and finish a whole 2 games in the 2010 season at Virginia.

It's not all about the stat sheet y'know? Reed will progress and Sheard has played great both on and off the stat sheet. Also Cleveland's defensive line scheme isn't that much different than ours right now.

 

[hodgey]

Wow.. Nothing like actually providing facts to support your opinion and for people to debate..

Why can't Brady be considered the best, NOW? Cause you say so?

Really, so all this pontificating by posters is fact? My fault I thought we were offering opinions. As a frustrated fan its my opinion that a few more hits on the multiple second or third round picks the patriots have had over the past several years would have earned the fan base a couple more trophies. Its also my opinion if you cant do it via the draft, maybe by trade is not a bad option. We have cap space and draft picks, and I do respect your opinion, in your opinion would Jared Allen or Peppers or the like make a difference in the ultimate outcome?

 

[hodgey]

"Loads of High Draft picks"? Other than Mayo, the highest they've picked is 16th since Ty Warren back in 2003. After that, it's been in the 20's and 30s for the 1st round.

Many people consider Mayo to be progressing to the point where he'll be an excellent ILB. A "game changing" player.

Meriweather was doing pretty well until he decided that he'd rather freelance than listen to the coaches..

What you miss and fail to understand is that "Game Changing" players need a team around them as well. They can't do it on their own.

Yes, McCourty has regressed this season. But it's only his second season. And he's played better in the last 2 games than in the 1st four.

Patrick Chung is also a very good young player. Could he become a Rodney Harrison or an Ed Reed? Only time will tell. But he's not chopped liver. He shut down Antonio Gates. Which says A LOT about him. Especially since his coverage skills were something that people questioned.

Game changers on the BB watch imho = Brady(1 lombardi away from being the greatest game changer of all time) Seymour, Deion, jury is still out on our current TE's.

 

[DaBruinz]

Predictable pathetic responses. Not one of the responses by the Deus, Bauer and the other fanboys could refute my points. You guys make me laugh. You're just fanboys, maybe this website should be split up between people who ONLY want to say happy things and those intelligent fans who want to be objective. There isn't an ounce of objectivity from a majority of dissenting posts. You throw out insults like school yard children.

Where would that leave you? Certainly not in either category you mentioned. You haven't been objective since you started posing here.

And who brought up the 2010 draft??? We're not talking about the 2010 draft. It was a great draft, ON OFFENSE. Plus, you don't debate a topic by bringing up another topic.

YOU brought it up with your claim that BB can't do anything outside the 1st round of a draft. He was on topic with what you posted.

Last 3 drafts - We had the four 2nd round picks draft, ok at best that draft was average, I guess you could say a trade turned into Gronk, but if they wanted Gronk they could have found a way to get him.

Two years ago great picks, solid draft, all on Offense. McCourty looked good, but he has been statistically the worst corner in the NFL this year. That being said, I think he turns it around.

Across the last 3 drafts, the Pats have had 9 2nd round picks. Those picks produced Chung, Butler, Brace, Vollmer, Cunningham, Spikes, Gronkowski, Dowling, and Vereen. The only BUST is Butler. 8 of 9 are still here. Chung, Vollmer, and Gronkowski are starters with Vollmer being an ALL-PRO. Spikes has shown signs of developing into a good to very good 2-down SILB. Brace showed glimpses of being a solid LDE before his injury. Cunningham is developing slowly. Vereen is stuck deep on the depth chart. Dowling, despite not seeing time in pre-season, beat out Bodden as a starting corner.

This year, Solder, Stupid trade, Injured player, two running backs who might be good, we'll see.

Why is it a stupid trade? Because you say so?

Bill made a decision in the best defensive draft in years, and that is proving out btw, to spend his draft capital on Dowling. It's been a bust. What is the only flaw on this team. Pass defense.

Watt, Fairley, Kerrigan, Liuget, Clayborn, Taylor, Heyward, Reed, Sheard, Ayers, all more impactful than No pick and Dowling.

There are a few problems with your list. First and foremost, you are ignoring that the Pats took Solder at 16. Second, it's well known that Solder wasn't going to be around at 24 for the Pats to take. So, that would mean the Pats would have to trade up twice (once from 16 and once from 24) to get some of the players on your list and still get Solder. And Solder filled a bigger need for LT than any of the players you mentioned. Fourth, You are assuming that the Pats could have traded up to get some of these players. You clearly didn't think about the probability that some of the teams (Texans/Lions) didn't want to trade.

The run to the Super Bowl begins now, as of right now this pick looks horrendous. If they win the Super Bowl and the Defense picks up, Bill cements himself as a great evaluator and coach. But for 4 years now he has been struggling trying to put together a middle of the road defense.

The claim that the Pats have been struggling to put together a "middle of the road defense" for 4 years isn't supported by reality. Unless they've changed it that Yards allowed wins games, not points..

So DEUS...it has nothing to do with where they draft, it has to do with WHO they draft, and guys they draft on defense has not played up to or fit the system. Dowling however, just can't get on the damn field. To defend that is ignorant and stupid. You can't win the Dowling argument, he has been a HORRIFIC disappointment. It doesn't matter if he's healthy in 2012, they need him this season. So come to the table with facts not stupid crap, about trolls etc.

You're wrong. Where they draft has plenty to do with it. Because that determines who will be available when it's their time to draft. This isn't Madden where you can toss a pick and a ton of money at a team and they'll do a trade. This is reality.

You're also wrong in evaluating Dowling after only a few games. Especially when EVERY SINGLE coach, GM, draft pundit says that it takes a few years before you can properly evaluate players.

As for coming to the table with facts, you are the one who seems to be missing facts. You are the one making the assumptions. And, yes, you do seem to be trolling.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh sorry I stand corrected. He managed to start and finish a whole 2 games in the 2010 season at Virginia.

He played in 5 games in 2010. Just because he didn't "finish" 3 of them doesn't change that fact. That is different than what you claimed.

It's not all about the stat sheet y'know? Reed will progress and Sheard has played great both on and off the stat sheet. Also Cleveland's defensive line scheme isn't that much different than ours right now.

Cleveland plays a 4-3 single gap defense with almost no 3-4. The Pats play a hybrid 3-4/4-3. Claiming that the defenses aren't different is like claiming a Frigidaire is the same thing a Samsung because they are both refrigerators..