Dolphins sign Isaiah Wynn

[50-yard-line]

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.

No kidding? Really? You must be BRILLIANT, I say!

Chubb's career is IRRELEVANT to whether or not Sony was an F pick. He was picked for a reason, based on assessments at the time, and he did a very good job for the Patriots in his time here.

Unless YOU were pounding the table for Chubb before the pick, you're just being obnoxious, like a whiny kid.

Of course Chubb's had the better career and would have proven to be a better pick. Of course! That's not how the real world of the NFL draft works - if it was, no one after round 2 would even have a career.

In hindsight, Chubb would have been an A, while Michel is more in the C-B range. He wasn't a bust at all and contributed hugely to the SB win that year.

It happens more with Patriots draft picks, especially 1st and 2nd rounders. Show me anyone who has a worse track record than the Patriots in the early rounds.

Patriots 1st & 2nd rounders over the past decade (2013-2022):

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

Breaking them up into two simple categories, good or bad, I bolded the bad ones. There's some hardcore rubbish in there (Dobson, Easley, Richards, C. Jones, Dawson, Harry, J. Williams).

Why would I bother to take the time to do that against a ridiculous rating system like this?

 

[patfanken]

What Isaiah Wynn Said About Patriots In First Dolphins Press Conference

pretty classy response I thought. Evidently he got treated much better by the organization than he did by the fans.

 

[crawhammer]

Seems odd you decided Thornton is a “bad” player based on weight gain since the 2022 season.

That's not what I said but whatever.

He played in 2022. He wasn't impressive at all. He also has a puny frame that isn't going to work given his apparent inability to compensate otherwise.

Mac Jones is a bad player?

He might be. He could be average. So far I see a not very good player. Below the standard needed to make this current team competitive in the current AFC.

Small point that makes me question your football knowledge beyond having numbers and stats. Playing the what if game, let's say there was a pass protection block Sony made in 2018, that kept Brady from taking a kill shot, that Chubb would have missed while getting 400 more rushing yards.

Do we win that superbowl without Brady but having Chubb instead of Sony?

No. Earl Campbell in his prime wouldn't have propelled a Brady-less Patriots team to the Super Bowl. Did you watch the 2018 AFCCG? There's one quarterback in the history of the league who pulls off that OT win in KC.

That's quite the farfetched hypothetical too. Sony saving the 2018 season by protecting Brady from a kill shot (resulting from Chubb whiffing on a block). That's very precise.

 

[crawhammer]

Of course Chubb's had the better career and would have proven to be a better pick. Of course!

TY

Unless YOU were pounding the table for Chubb before the pick, you're just being obnoxious, like a whiny kid.

I was pounding the table for Lamar Jackson. And there's no bigger Brady fan than me. Not that I would have moved on from Brady right away but by 2020 I would have considered it with the idea of trading a contracted or franchised Brady for abundant compensation. Not only did we not draft Jackson (twice), but we ****ed around with Brady's contracts, soured that relationship beyond repair, and then let him walk for nothing. What a massive ****up by Belichick. Probably his worse mismanagement of a situation ever. Even worse than SB 52. Or the backend of the 2015 season.

 

[50-yard-line]

TY

For what? If you're going to grade every pick by someone picked later, no team will ever live up to your standards.

I was pounding the table for Lamar Jackson. And there's no bigger Brady fan than me. Not that I would have moved on from Brady right away but by 2020 I would have considered it with the idea of trading a contracted or franchised Brady for abundant compensation. Not only did we not draft Jackson (twice), but we ****ed around with Brady's contracts, soured that relationship beyond repair, and then let him walk for nothing. What a massive ****up by Belichick. Probably his worse mismanagement of a situation ever. Even worse than SB 52. Or the backend of the 2015 season.

Brady had a fit when they drafted Jimmy. I'm sure he would have loved that idea.
Don't get me wrong - I like Jackson a lot, even though I'm no real fan of the running QB concept and I wonder how much longer he'll last. Also, I don't think Jackson will ever get a ring. They tailored the offense in Baltimore to fit him and came up with bupkus. Now it looks like they're trying to get him some actual WRs instead of the 3-TE stuff. We'll see.

 

[pazrul72]

No. Earl Campbell in his prime wouldn't have propelled a Brady-less Patriots team to the Super Bowl. Did you watch the 2018 AFCCG? There's one quarterback in the history of the league who pulls off that OT win in KC.

That's quite the farfetched hypothetical too. Sony saving the 2018 season by protecting Brady from a kill shot (resulting from Chubb whiffing on a block). That's very prprecise.

Of course I watched the game why do you think I phrased it the way i did? Brady had a crap superbowl but was at the peak pshyco Brady in that 4th quarter OT of the AFCCG. No other QB in the history of the game I want there.

Not far fetched at all, I don't have the numbers in front of me but let's say Brady dropped back 600 times that season. At least 100 of those Sonys job was to help in pass protection, something that does not show up on any Stat sheet, that he was ELITE at. I'm on my phone at the tire place so I don't have the patience to link videos but I can remember at least a dozen times Sony absolutely stonewalled and ended a blitzing LB or S. All I'm saying is replace that with someone who is a better runner but **** pass blocker and there has to be at LEAST one block Sony made that Chubb misses and everyone of those carries a risk of Brady being out for the season.

At that point in Bradys career I am 100% ok with the thinking let's do everything we can to make sure Brady makes it thru the year, which is what they did drafting Sony over Chubb. Would having Chubb today be better for today's team? Of course he is easily the better back, no one is arguing that, but for 2018 which ended in a SB win its fair to argue Sony was the better Pick and FAR from a bust or an F grade and no putting Chubb in his place does not equal the same or better results.

 

[Chevy]

All of them were taken a long long time ago.

How many BB first round picks have been made? As it is a small sample size (24 first rounds) then age is not an issue.

 

[crawhammer]

Brady had a fit when they drafted Jimmy. I'm sure he would have loved that idea.

It was 2014! I had a fit too, especially after BB commented on Brady's "age and contract situation" after making the pick. What a slap in the face to your franchise quarterback who guarantees you at least a division title EVERY season. That Garoppolo pick was total garbage at the time. The Miami Dolphins drafted Jarvis Landry with the next pick... like he wouldn't have feasted in Brady's offense. Again, it was 2014, and the season prior BB gave Brady the likes of Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins to work with. The next year he drafts his replacement WAY TOO SOON.

By 2018, Brady's 41, you had already moved on from Garoppolo, so drafting your next guy then made total sense. Too ****ing bad if Brady doesn't like it by that point. And I like I said, Jackson wouldn't have replaced Brady until 2020 or so (with the benefit too of getting compensation for Brady). I would have taken Jackson at #23 (Wynn) but I'm absolutely not passing on him again after he dropped into my lap at #31 (Sony). We instead took an RB, which is always a bad decision in the 1st round, but we didn't even take the better RB from the Georgia backfield (according to NFL.com, CBS Sports, & PFF).

 

[State]

What a slap in the face to your franchise quarterback who guarantees you at least a division title EVERY season.

Good point. Belichick was advertising his succession plan—only five years too early.

He didn’t even realize his health nut, avocado ice cream eating QB would likely defy Father Time…for a time.

Similar situation in Green Bay when Jordan Love was drafted and a weapon for their QB was bypassed.

Heck, years earlier when Aaron Rodgers was drafted from Cal in the first round Bret Favre was less than pleased.

 

[State]

Chubb's career is IRRELEVANT to whether or not Sony was an F pick. He was picked for a reason, based on assessments at the time,

By your logic Joe Barry Carroll made perfect sense for Golden State instead of Kevin McHale in the 1980 nba draft. Even in hindsight.

Most of us would beg to differ.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Is that why the Patriots chose the inferior players?... because they're more articulate. Sounds like some ass-backwards ******** that BB would focus on. Supposed "good character" and ST potential.

Pats take inferior players for control. Talented guys quickly get big egos who will most likely go rogue on Coaches and will command more money when they produce. Less talented guys are more humble and will listen to the Coaches. Teams can offer that player less when their contract is up and say they are a "system player".

Dominique Easley F
Malcolm Brown F
Isaiah Wynn F
Sony Michel C-
N'Keal Harry F
Mac Jones C-
Cole Strange B-

You can't give Brown the same grade as Easley. Brown wasn't anything special, but he started pretty much his entire tenure.

Michel gets a B for 2018. 2019 was a D-. His lack of talent got badly exposed when he didn't have a convoy of blockers like he did in 2018.

It was 2014! I had a fit too, especially after BB commented on Brady's "age and contract situation" after making the pick. What a slap in the face to your franchise quarterback who guarantees you at least a division title EVERY season. That Garoppolo pick was total garbage at the time. The Miami Dolphins drafted Jarvis Landry with the next pick... like he wouldn't have feasted in Brady's offense. Again, it was 2014, and the season prior BB gave Brady the likes of Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins to work with. The next year he drafts his replacement WAY TOO SOON.

By 2018, Brady's 41, you had already moved on from Garoppolo, so drafting your next guy then made total sense. Too ****ing bad if Brady doesn't like it by that point. And I like I said, Jackson wouldn't have replaced Brady until 2020 or so (with the benefit too of getting compensation for Brady). I would have taken Jackson at #23 (Wynn) but I'm absolutely not passing on him again after he dropped into my lap at #31 (Sony). We instead took an RB, which is always a bad decision in the 1st round, but we didn't even take the better RB from the Georgia backfield (according to NFL.com, CBS Sports, & PFF).

That was an idiotic draft pick by Bill. The Pats are on the brink of a Super Bowl birth and you throw away a 2nd rounder for a guy to hold a clipboard. Then he's traded and that pick turned into Duke Dawson...who was later traded. The rumor which came out not too long ago was that Bill was looking to move on from Brady after the 2013 season. I'm seeing a pattern of fall guys for Bill's bad roster management.

 

[Ivan]

Patriots 1st round draft picks over the past 10 years (with grade):

Dominique Easley F
Malcolm Brown F
Isaiah Wynn F
Sony Michel C-
N'Keal Harry F
Mac Jones C-
Cole Strange B-

No 1st round pick taken in 2013, 2016, 2017 or 2020. Christian Gonzalez obviously is a TBD.

Easley, Brown, Wynn, Michel and Harry aren't on the team anymore so their grades aren't changing. Easley and Brown aren't in the league anymore. I don't believe Michel has a home currently and he may be looking at an early retirement from the NFL. Harry might be finished too at age 25.

Mac Jones is probably one of the more likely starting quarterbacks in the NFL to be replaced before the end of the 2023 season (presumably by Zappe). I'm not predicting Jones will lose his job, I'm just saying he has higher odds of it than most starting quarterbacks.

There's one conclusion here... the Patriots are terrible at 1st round draft picks.

If they ever remake the movie Misery you would be perfect for the Kathy Bates role. Maybe they could even convince Belichick to play James Can’s part.

 

[patfanken]

It was 2014! I had a fit too, especially after BB commented on Brady's "age and contract situation" after making the pick. What a slap in the face to your franchise quarterback who guarantees you at least a division title EVERY season. That Garoppolo pick was total garbage at the time. The Miami Dolphins drafted Jarvis Landry with the next pick... like he wouldn't have feasted in Brady's offense. Again, it was 2014, and the season prior BB gave Brady the likes of Dobson, Boyce, and Thompkins to work with. The next year he drafts his replacement WAY TOO SOON.

By 2018, Brady's 41, you had already moved on from Garoppolo, so drafting your next guy then made total sense. Too ****ing bad if Brady doesn't like it by that point. And I like I said, Jackson wouldn't have replaced Brady until 2020 or so (with the benefit too of getting compensation for Brady). I would have taken Jackson at #23 (Wynn) but I'm absolutely not passing on him again after he dropped into my lap at #31 (Sony). We instead took an RB, which is always a bad decision in the 1st round, but we didn't even take the better RB from the Georgia backfield (according to NFL.com, CBS Sports, & PFF).

Hey, Mr. 20-20 hindsight, back in 2014 Brady's 36 or so, and 70 years of NFL history had told us at that time, that by the time a QB get to be 38 or so, he's going to be done and you'd better start thinking about a replacement. And why your Brady feel "insulted". It's not his job to worry about anyone else but himself. Do you think Brady was afraid of a little competition? And again in 2014-18 they still played a better brand of football. A time when you could actually HIT the QB, which mitigated QB longevity

Aside: What would you think about a rule that stated that if a QB running an RPO goes beyond te LOS cannot slide, because he has become a RB and none of the QB protections apply. OK moving on.

It was a GREAT pick, imo, if only that it lit a fire (or kept it lit) and only make Brady better for the competition. Then end result was that for 3 years we had a top of line back up who was very effective in the time he was on the field and when the time came we shipped him out for a top 10 pick in the 2nd round. He was a great value for those 4 years.

You do a LOT of 20-20 second guessing.

As for the Jackson pick, I completely understand why they DIDN'T draft him. For him to be able to have ANY effectiveness on the field you would have had to do what Baltimore did and design a totally specific offense around what he could and could not do. The Patriots ran a PRECISION passing attack for 20 years and Jackson had the absolute OPPOSITE of those skills. You thought Drew Bledsoe was a bad fit for this offense, well Jackson would have been worse. Maybe now after 5 years and one playoff win, he might be able to do more things. But THEN he would have been a wasted pick on a team wouldn't be able to give him the support he needed to be successful.

Again it's easy when you are looking throw those 20-20 Hindsight glasses

 

[DaBruinz]

I would've preferred watching it with Nick Chubb vs the Rams.

You're assuming that the Pats would have made it that far. Which isn't likely since Michel had a critical blitz pick-up that Chubb wouldn't have made.

 

[crawhammer]

Pats take inferior players for control. Talented guys quickly get big egos who will most likely go rogue on Coaches and will command more money when they produce. Less talented guys are more humble and will listen to the Coaches. Teams can offer that player less when their contract is up and say they are a "system player".

Interesting take. Kind of wipes out all the pretzel twisting from IBWTers trying to justify the picks. Of course they wouldn't agree with your characterization in the first place.

The most absurd thing ever to come from the BB inner circle is their believing they could win with any top 15 quarterback because of BB's "system", which itself has never been clearly defined (probably because it doesn't really exist). Sort of like the "Patriot Way", to which we can add drafting inferior players for control. Ugh.

You can't give Brown the same grade as Easley. Brown wasn't anything special, but he started pretty much his entire tenure.

Good point although I honestly believe Brown individually didn't do much with his opportunity. Just not an impactful player (certainly not representative of a 1st round pick). Is there something worse than an F? That's Easley. But given I'm stuck with F being the worst, I'd agree Brown and Easley shouldn't have the same mark.

Michel gets a B for 2018. 2019 was a D-. His lack of talent got badly exposed when he didn't have a convoy of blockers like he did in 2018.

If you want to break it down like that, sure, I guess. But not once did Sony ever blow me away with his play. Overall a C- performer which is a failing grade for a 1st round pick (taken over an all world athletic running quarterback).

The rumor which came out not too long ago was that Bill was looking to move on from Brady after the 2013 season. I'm seeing a pattern of fall guys for Bill's bad roster management.

After a season when he gave Brady dogshit to work with. The Belichick Way.

 

[crawhammer]

If they ever remake the movie Misery you would be perfect for the Kathy Bates role. Maybe they could even convince Belichick to play James Can’s part.

Wouldn't work. Bates was infatuated with the James Caan character.

 

[crawhammer]

You're assuming that the Pats would have made it that far. Which isn't likely since Michel had a critical blitz pick-up that Chubb wouldn't have made.

Reminds me of that Slater play in SB 52 when Allen angled a perfect punt from midfield to the 5-yard line and Slater had the highlight reel of his life because the ball grazed off his fingertips as it headed out of bounds.

 

[DaBruinz]

BB is infallible to some around here because he's so soo perfect. How dare us question or state the facts.

No. Belichick is fallible to many of us. The problem is that YOU think people disagreeing with your ignorant assessments means they consider him infallible. That's the difference.

 

[50-yard-line]

By your logic Joe Barry Carroll made perfect sense for Golden State instead of Kevin McHale in the 1980 nba draft. Even in hindsight.

Most of us would beg to differ.

Since almost every board had Sony and Chubb ranked anywhere from two to five coming out, no.

 

[Ivan]

Wouldn't work. Bates was infatuated with the James Caan character.

Actually, now that you mention it, that could explain your obsession with Belichick.