Dolphins sign Isaiah Wynn

[captain stone]

Well, that's for sure... but, not terrible? You gave the following grades... F, C-, D-, F, D-, Inc... that's even worse than how I graded them out as I reluctantly gave Michel a C- and Strange a B-.

I was trying to be diplomatic, and... Who am I kidding? Bill does indeed Suck at drafting. He's always had a WTF pick in the top 100 almost every year it seems, going all the way back to Brock Williams instead of Anthony Henry; and he used to be ok at trading, but now... He makes two good picks in a row - finally! - though the trade-down with ****tsdirt was pure **** it but if it hurts the Jete then Yay me, and then the rest of his picks were Straight Trash, Homie, until Demario Douglas maybe... And if Double-S isn't being groomed to be a LG when Strange69 goes to LT or to be a LT himself, then he was a bad pick too.

I actually like your grades better but I'm not going Inc on Mac, I've seen enough, I'm not giving him the out of Patricia for last season, he still had Belichick as his HC and he mostly played like trash.

I'm going Bullwinkle Moose here and giving him one more season to pull a rabbit outta his ass.

Mac wasn't that good as a rookie either, look at his season in thirds, he started and ended his rookie season poorly. Mac's only chance to be good is if he surrounded by the likes of Hill and Waddle. JuJu and Parker aren't going to cut it.

Completely agree.

 

[captain stone]

Malcolm Brown wasn’t an all pro or anything but he certainly wasn’t a bust

I had no problem with the pick: Wilfork had just signed with Houston and Akiem Hicks had yet to be acquired; and this is where Brown was projected to be taken, if not a half-dozen picks earlier...
I might've considered taking the Vagiants offer of 40, 108 & 245 for 32, but that's it.

 

[borg]

Mac's only chance to be good is if he surrounded by the likes of Hill and Waddle.

I'm not convinced these diminutive WRs are best suited to secure Mac's patented 50/50 jump ball floaters.
I could be wrong though.

 

[PatsFan2]

Are you arguing that Belichick is good at drafting WRs? Or even competent? Because the list of names is irrefutably putrid.

Chubb has been the MUCH better NFL RB. Sony is probably finished. Film study? lol who cares about that now. Chubb probably will put up 1500 yards on film next season. Maybe the Patriots will invite Sony to Brady's opening day celebration. Maybe. But that's probably the closest he'll get to an NFL field in 2023.

BB is infallible to some around here because he's so soo perfect. How dare us question or state the facts.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm not convinced these diminutive WRs are best suited to secure Mac's patented 50/50 jump ball floaters.
I could be wrong though.

I think they both scored 36 in their verticals that should help.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Results matter. We aren't grading prospects anymore. These players have NFL résumés. Chubb's tells us he's a top running back in the NFL. Sony's tells us he's irrelevant by age 27.


So we drafted Sony because he understood his blocking responsibilities? Lame. Can Rhamondre block? I don't know but he's GD good at everything else.


Are we really going to play that game? Patriots don't win SB 36 if Brady's ankle injury kept him out of the game. We can do ifs all day long or we can just look at the facts.

But forget my F for Wynn. @RobertWeathers gave him a C-. Even though RW apparently discounts my grades, I'll take his on merit.


Brown wasn't keeping defensive coordinators up at night. He was ordinary at best, which still isn't worthy of a 1st round pick.


Arguably the best defender in NFL - T.J. Watt - was drafted 30th overall by the Steelers in 2017. Baltimore got Lamar Jackson at #32 in 2018. Look at the 2nd round WRs taken after N'Keal Harry in 2019: Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, & D.K. Metcalf. Justin Jefferson went at #22 and Brandon Aiyuk went at #25 in 2020. No one bats a thousand on higher round draft picks but a lot of teams hit at a higher percentage than the Patriots.

Wynn was def a major disappointment but I don't put him in Easley/Harry category. He was a starter and had a couple good to OK years.

 

[203Pat]

Lol this place and the Sony Michel debate.

 

[crawhammer]

Irrelevant to my post and position. Many RBs are irrelevant by 27 and Chubb could be in short order - like Barkley. Also, Chubb wouldn't be here now anyway - not at $12m/year. RBs fall off the face of the earth in a hurry. Again, irrelevant to my post.

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.

What game? The Patriots made a proper choice in taking Wynn, but the pick didn't work out. Happens A LOT. Like really, A LOT.

It happens more with Patriots draft picks, especially 1st and 2nd rounders. Show me anyone who has a worse track record than the Patriots in the early rounds.

Patriots 1st & 2nd rounders over the past decade (2013-2022):

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

Breaking them up into two simple categories, good or bad, I bolded the bad ones. There's some hardcore rubbish in there (Dobson, Easley, Richards, C. Jones, Dawson, Harry, J. Williams).

I'll get pushback on Mac Jones but he's supposed to be your lockdown franchise quarterback for 5-10 seasons at least. So far he's a disappointment, his ceiling is lowish, he's well below several other youngish quarterbacks in the conference, and I don't see the team being successful with him unless they stack up loads of talent around him (e.g. Tua in Miami).

And yes, I'm out on Thornton too. He'll never get above WR3 or WR4. Good chance he gets passed over by one of the 6th round fliers by the end of 2023.

I put Garoppolo in the "good" column because I think he's a good quarterback when healthy (which is rare) but I don't really believe he ever did anything positive for the Patriots.

That entire list too, there's 1 pro bowl season, Jamie Collins in 2015. Mac's 7th alternate QB appearance in 2021 doesn't count.

Ending on a positive note, my favorite picks from that list are Dugger and Uche... love'em both.

 

[archstanton543]

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.


It happens more with Patriots draft picks, especially 1st and 2nd rounders. Show me anyone who has a worse track record than the Patriots in the early rounds.

Patriots 1st & 2nd rounders over the past decade (2013-2022):

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

Breaking them up into two simple categories, good or bad, I bolded the bad ones. There's some hardcore rubbish in there (Dobson, Easley, Richards, C. Jones, Dawson, Harry, J. Williams).

I'll get pushback on Mac Jones but he's supposed to be your lockdown franchise quarterback for 5-10 seasons at least. So far he's a disappointment, his ceiling is lowish, he's well below several other youngish quarterbacks in the conference, and I don't see the team being successful with him unless they stack up loads of talent around him (e.g. Tua in Miami).

And yes, I'm out on Thornton too. He'll never get above WR3 or WR4. Good chance he gets passed over by one of the 6th round fliers by the end of 2023.

I put Garoppolo in the "good" column because I think he's a good quarterback when healthy (which is rare) but I don't really believe he ever did anything positive for the Patriots.

That entire list too, there's 1 pro bowl season, Jamie Collins in 2015. Mac's 7th alternate QB appearance in 2021 doesn't count.

Ending on a positive note, my favorite picks from that list are Dugger and Uche... love'em both.

I know you have an agenda to push but Mac isn't one of the bad ones. Neither is Thornton. Mac had a one good-to-great season (you can deny this all you want but the facts and the stats are there) and one bad one (under crappy coaches). At the very least the jury is still out on him.

Speaking of the jury being out, Thornton has played one season in the NFL (under the same crappy coaches Mac did) which was hampered by an injury. Saying he's a bust at this point is ridiculous. If this is trolling on your part, well done.

 

[Zuma]

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.


It happens more with Patriots draft picks, especially 1st and 2nd rounders. Show me anyone who has a worse track record than the Patriots in the early rounds.

Patriots 1st & 2nd rounders over the past decade (2013-2022):

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

Breaking them up into two simple categories, good or bad, I bolded the bad ones. There's some hardcore rubbish in there (Dobson, Easley, Richards, C. Jones, Dawson, Harry, J. Williams).

I'll get pushback on Mac Jones but he's supposed to be your lockdown franchise quarterback for 5-10 seasons at least. So far he's a disappointment, his ceiling is lowish, he's well below several other youngish quarterbacks in the conference, and I don't see the team being successful with him unless they stack up loads of talent around him (e.g. Tua in Miami).

And yes, I'm out on Thornton too. He'll never get above WR3 or WR4. Good chance he gets passed over by one of the 6th round fliers by the end of 2023.

I put Garoppolo in the "good" column because I think he's a good quarterback when healthy (which is rare) but I don't really believe he ever did anything positive for the Patriots.

That entire list too, there's 1 pro bowl season, Jamie Collins in 2015. Mac's 7th alternate QB appearance in 2021 doesn't count.

Ending on a positive note, my favorite picks from that list are Dugger and Uche... love'em both.

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

 

[crawhammer]

I know you have an agenda to push but Mac isn't one of the bad ones. Neither is Thornton. Mac had a one good-to-great season (you can deny this all you want but the facts and the stats are there) and one bad one (under crappy coaches). At the very least the jury is still out on him.

"My agenda" regarding the QB situation at the beginning of the offseason was get a better one. Two became available - Rodgers and Jackson - we passed on both which especially in Jackson's case was hugely disappointing. I also would have kicked the tires on Carr (or if I had a few drinks first then maybe Garoppolo too). At this point my agenda is an open competition between Mac and Zappe in camp (when it will be no secret that I'll be rooting for Zappe).

Speaking of the jury being out, Thornton has played one season in the NFL (under the same crappy coaches Mac did) which was hampered by an injury. Saying he's a bust at this point is ridiculous. If this is trolling on your part, well done.

Did Thornton add 20 pounds of muscle in the offseason? If so then I'll give him another look see. Otherwise I see a frail WR who can't compete with NFL DBs. I suppose heading into 2023 Thornton will be asked to replicate Agholor's production, which firstly isn't good enough for a 2nd round pick taken ahead of George Pickens, and secondly I think he's struggle to do it (31-362-2). Right now JuJu, Parker and Bourne should dominate the targets for this offense. With also a heavy use of both TEs and Rhamondre.

 

[Zuma]

Did Thornton add 20 pounds of muscle in the offseason? If so then I'll give him another look

Seems odd you decided Thornton is a “bad” player based on weight gain since the 2022 season.

Mac Jones is a bad player?

 

[captain stone]

Lol this place and the Sony Michel debate.

Yep; the hoops through which the homers will go to defend this Clearly Incorrect choice...

 

[Zuma]

I know some here don’t like the fact that Sony’s 931 rookie rushing yards In 2018 helped the Patriots win the super bowl…but have you considered the last time a rookie RB had that’s many rushing yards for the Pats (not even factoring in a SB). I like winning Super Bowls…I’m guilty.

I am convinced some here would rather have “their” players drafted and lose a super bowl then win the super bowl with the players that actually won it.

 

[captain stone]

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.

BINGO. Chubb would've Dominated the 2018 season here in ways that Soreknee could've only dreamt about.

Patriots 1st & 2nd rounders over the past decade (2013-2022):

Jamie Collins
Aaron Dobson
Dominique Easley
Jimmy Garoppolo
Malcom Brown
Jordan Richards
Cyrus Jones
Isaiah Wynn
Sony Michel
Duke Dawson
N'Keal Harry
Joejuan Williams
Kyle Dugger
Josh Uche
Mac Jones
Christian Barmore
Cole Strange
Tyquan Thornton

Breaking them up into two simple categories, good or bad, I bolded the bad ones. There's some hardcore rubbish in there (Dobson, Easley, Richards, C. Jones, Dawson, Harry, J. Williams).

Still not including Mac (yet) or Brown with the bolded; and the pick of Lose/Lose in 2018 should've been Ryan Ramczyk in 2017 if Little Billy had a pair... L/L was also mis-used here, and not just last season either: the little dude is - as was noted by many during the draft process itself - NOT a league-caliber Left Tackle but a Left GUARD.

I'll get pushback on Mac Jones but...his ceiling is lowish, he's well below several other youngish quarterbacks in the conference, and I don't see the team being successful with him unless they stack up loads of talent around him (e.g. Tua in Miami).

Yep; Mac needs Everyone Else around him to be Better than he himself is in order for him to succeed, including protection, WRs, TEs & 3rd-Down RBs... All of which Little Billy & Al Groh's kid have failed to provide him, though at least TE shouldn't be the utter catastrophe it was in 2019-20 (but didn't we think that in 2021 also?).
Look up "Ceiling: Don't-****-it-up Game Manager" in the football dictionary, and Corky's face appears.

And yes, I'm out on Thornton too. He'll never get above WR3 or WR4. Good chance he gets passed over by one of the 6th round fliers by the end of 2023.

BoneyT sucks. Absolutely ****ing Sucks. I wouldn't have taken him ahead of Either Romeo Doubs Or Khalil Shakir, both of whom went in the late 4th-early-5th rounds.

Mac's 7th alternate QB appearance in 2021 doesn't count.

"The Pro Bowl's a joke!" Unless Mac's in it (after 4 others refused), that is.

Ending on a positive note, my favorite picks from that list are Dugger and Uche... love'em both.

Why? Both Uncle Dugg & the little pass-rush Specialist were over-drafted by a Full Round... But I suppose that's still better than Strange69, who was over-drafted by TWO FULL ROUNDS.

 

[pazrul72]

Chubb isn't irrelevant by 27, however Michel is. Chubb's had the much better NFL career. Patriots took Michel over Chubb in the draft; it turned out to be the wrong decision. And don't give me "but Michel won a SB" because Chubb would have easily replicated or bettered Michel's production in 2018.

Small point that makes me question your football knowledge beyond having numbers and stats. Playing the what if game, let's say there was a pass protection block Sony made in 2018, that kept Brady from taking a kill shot, that Chubb would have missed while getting 400 more rushing yards.

Do we win that superbowl without Brady but having Chubb instead of Sony?

 

[patfanken]

It's not that I'm disagreeing with some of the specifics mentioned about Bill's drafting which is often somehow baffling. But in a general overview, if Bill is so bad building teams over the years, how the **** has he won so many games. How did that **** show of a team in 2020 manage to win 7 games with a QB who could no long accurately hit check downs, and an offense that lost most of their key players? A better example was HTF did they win 8 games last year with the coaching situation, that led to a big step back for their QB and their OL?

I mean I get it, it is a legit topic and one fans LOVE to opine about. BUT there are expectations, and then there are EXPECTATIONS. Have you looked into the NFL's method of restocking team rosters? It is SPECIFICALLY designed to favor Bad teams and negatively affect good ones all in the name of cratering a "competitive balance of forced mediiocacy" Look at all the top ten picks that fail, and THEN have 20 years where you are generally picking in the 20's and 30's of EACH ROUND.

I just want to interject into this rather negative discussion that it is HARD to draft good to great players from that position. Teams do do it, you if you are lucky a 3 years good stretch is a GREAT run. Christ, the Jets have been drafting at the top of the draft for 50+ years and it hasn't helped them until recently,

Complain at will, if you must. Sometimes it can be cathartic. But DO understand the complexity that is inherent in building a good football team and how many Superbowls and AFCCG's the Pats have been in WITHOUT having the best INDIVIDUAL roster?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

What Isaiah Wynn Said About Patriots In First Dolphins Press Conference

“Oh, it was good,” Wynn said, as transcribed by FOX Sports’ Henry McKenna. “They’re the team that drafted me. So, I appreciate everybody in that organization from the staff to the players. I thank them. My time was good there, and then it’s going to be fun playing against them because especially seeing them twice a year being on the opposite side; being there previously, you play against guys that may have already been there and now I’m on the other side now.

 

[crawhammer]

But in a general overview, if Bill is so bad building teams over the years, how the **** has he won so many games.

Brady.

 

[patfanken]

Brady.

another overly simplistic answer to,, like a said, a Very complex question. But thanks for playing,