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Daniel Graham will not be back and will tear it up with his new team.....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by HEY BRO! WHAT UP?, Feb 17, 2007.

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  1. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    The fact is, Daniel Graham is a starter in this league. He could start on many teams in this league. It's unfortunate that he was always underused in the Pats offense with the talent he has. Ingnorant people like to question his hands but the facts are he hardly ever gets the ball in the Pats offense and when he does, he is a force. He is an excellent blocker, may be the best in the league. However, he gets injured A LOT and can't stay on the field. Now Graham is a free agent and I'm 100% sure he doesn't want to come back to New Enlgand. Not because he doesn't like it in New England, but because he isn't used nearly enough like he should. He deserves to be a starter on another team that likes to envolve their TE's. Seattle will probably sign him and he will tear it up with the west coast scheme. So don't be suprised to see next season where ever Graham goes, he has his best season, may even have a Pro Bowl season.
     
  2. salty

    salty On the Game Day Roster

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    He's always had trouble staying on the field, and now he has two bum shoulders. Plus, he's 28, which isn't that old, but if you sign him to a four or five year deal you are still paying him big money when he is 32 or 33 and not even playing half a season. I love what the guy has done for us, but I don't think its smart for the Pats to lock money up in him long term, especially given that we are fairly well off at the position even without him.

    I'll wish him luck and will root for him next year, as long he doesn't go to a division rival, or the Broncos.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I just don't think Graham can be the offensive force that you imagine. Think about it, this offense isn't exactly a juggernaut. It needs guys who can separate and catch the ball. It's needed that guy for Graham's entire career, and yet he hasn't filled those shoes. Seriously, he's not even Randy McMichael. Graham is a great blocker, but don't expect him to break out on any NFL team.
     
  4. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Graham may well be featured more as a receiver in the future, but for you to say he's "underused in the Pats offense" is short-sighted, IMO. He is a KEY part of the offense - when healthy - because pass blocking is a big part of offense and a HUGE part of playing TE. You'd like to see him used more in the passing game - so would I, so would Graham. But to say he has been underused is silly. He's in there constantly when he manages to stay on the field.

    I won't be surprised if, in the fantasy football philosophy you seem to espouse, Graham makes the Pro Bowl. But we can't keep everyone, and in terms of what seem to be YOUR criteria, Watson, while still developing, is RIGHT NOW a more talented receiver than Graham. More explosive. As is, probably, Dave Thomas. So I'm not sure why you, of all people, would care if he goes or stays.
     
  5. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Chad Jackson photos hurts your credibility, and so do posts like this. Graham is a good player, he adds a very physical presence and tough guy attitude to the line-up. He hands have improved and if he leaves he could become a 40-50 catch player but he is mired behind at least 1 other TE so his touches with NE will be limited.

    We have lost a lot better players than Graham and he can be replaced. If he stays, great he is a solid player. If he leaves, thank you for your time and good luck.

     
  6. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You can't keep players based on what they might do with other teams. Graham has been a good assett to this team but his production here just does not justify the kind of price tag it would would take to keep him. It is nothing. I love the guy and in a perfect world I would be very happy to see him stay.
     
  7. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Right now? No way. Grahambo has better hands and, more importantly, is more trustworthy than The Bumbler.

    "More explosive" is correct, however. The football explodes off Bennie's hands quite often.
     
  8. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'll agree that he has better hands than be people think he does. But you are dead wrong in this post on a few of your claims.

    He was NOT underused in the Patriots offense. As a reciever he has been in the past two years. But he has been a terrific blocker. Just because he is a blocking TE more than a recieving TE does not mean he is under used. Thats as good as saying Dan Koppen is underused because he blocks rather than catches a lot of TD passes.

    Your claim that he will make it to the Pro Bowl is random. Are you sure wherever he will go he will be one of the top recieving threats on that team? Stop making random claims, it sounds like you are stating rather than predicting. He might but that is not at all for certain. I would love to have him again but if he has to go then he has to go. Dave Thomas will take more of a role in the offense. IMO, Thomas will be better recieving than Graham or Watson.
     
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Stats don't always tell the whole story, but they can be a guideline. Besides the fact that Watson, for much of the season, was the Patriots leading receiver, there's this:

    WATSON - 49, 643, 3 TDs
    GRAHAM - 21, 235, 2 TDs


    Again, I don't claim these stats mean everything. Graham was blocking more, Watson was more of a receiving TD - but those two facts have REASON behind them. Apparently, according to BB and the staff, Watson is a better receiver.
     
  10. Daniel McJosh

    Daniel McJosh Banned

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    I completely agree with you. It is yet one more case of a potentially strong offense being mishandled and shackled.

    Third downs are one of the areas in which he could have been utilized to the maximum with some quick outs and also some quick inside patterns, all in the quick short 3-6 yard range which was an area in which the Pats offense stumbled continuously especially in the red zone.

    Keeping him in as a blocker was fine, considering he is a very talented blocker but they could have had him release more often from the first block, dirft into 1st down range on short yardage situations and make a quick out or in move.... and they faled to utilize those options.

    Another case of the offensive potential being mishandled.

    Hopefully the Pats will do whatever it takes to re sign him.....even if it means promising him a new offensive direction.

    We can not afford to have more talented offensive players leave because they may be disatisfied with the offensive schemes....

    Anyway that is what my neighbor tells me. Me? I'm not as football knowledgeable as he is.
     
  11. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Watson is faster than Graham. Based on what I've seen, that's the only advantage he holds. Now, if he could hold onto the ball better, he will begin to justify his draft status.
     
  12. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    So you're blaming his lavk of production on McDaniels?

    Um, last time I checked Graham wasn't putting up Pro Bowl numbers under Weiss either.
     
  13. Daniel McJosh

    Daniel McJosh Banned

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    You are correct, to a point.

    Under Weis, he didnt have pro bowl numbers because, even then, he was used for blocking abilities,but...unlike in the past two seasons, he WAS used as a critical down, and red zone receiver in the previous TWO seasons.

    in 2003 he had 38 receptions with 4 touchdowns. And, he accounted for 21 first downs.

    in 2004 he had 30 receptions for 7 touchdowns. ANd, he accounted for 20 first downs.

    This past season he had only 21 receptions for 2 TD's and only 12 first downs.

    That is a very significant drop in production.... because if you arent having the ball thrown to you, you cant catch it, score, or get a first down.

    Are any of those stats pro bowl material? No, they are not. But they do show that he was not used in the offense, expecially in key situations, as much as he had been under Weis.

    If one of the reasons that he uses to leave for another team is that he is not used enough in the offense, I cant blame him.

    He can be a big contributor in key situations and yet, he wasnt used often enough. Just my opinion, nothing else.
     
  14. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    A lot of Graham's blocking came in the run game, especially the wham blocks.

    The other part came in the passing game, where he'd help out or tackles.
     
  15. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Although he had a really good catch for a TD in the Jets game, the problem in incorporating Graham into the offense was that Watson was used alot on third down as a pass-target. I don't know, and maybe somebody can correct me, but I always remember Graham doing the "wham blocking," and Watson not so much.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You do realize that the reason he's "always had trouble staying on the field" is that he's always been asked to stay in and block because of how injured our tackles have been EVERY YEAR under Belichick. There hasn't been a year since Belichick came that haven't used FEWER than 4 Tackles. When you don't have that consistency and the tackles are needing that much help, Graham isn't going to be allowed to do a lot of receiving. And he gets hurt constantly going up against guys who have 30-50 lbs on him.
     
  17. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    yeah, I agree.
     
  18. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We shall see. I'd like him back - but not at the $4 million salary most people think he'll be demanding to be paid like one of the top TEs in the league.

    Yes, he's a valuable blocker. And how many of our "other" offensive linemen are we paying $4 million a year?

    For offense, compare Graham's numbers with Jermaine Wiggins over the same years.

    Is anyone suggesting Jermaine Wiggins one of the best TEs in the league?

    I'm not trying to dump on Graham - but I think this "he's a great blocker" has gone from one spectrum to the other. For awhile no one appreciated it - now anyone who thinks Graham isn't the best all around TE in the game supposedly knows nothing about football.
     
  19. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    The drop in production is because of Ben Watson's presence AND because Graham missed games.
     
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And because they were using Graham as a blocker more than anything else.

    I love Graham, but we need to get some RTs who can stay healthy. Don't get me wrong, I like O'Calalghan and Kaczur, but man, we need stability at RT to allow Graham to be used effectively.

    The TE screen to him is a fantastic play. Better than the screens to Maroney, IMHO.
     
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