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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Merril Hoge's Tie Knot, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I've thought this for a while, hence having an OG as my no 1 pick. I suspect after the Buffalo game, there may be more agreeing with me.
     
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've had DL and OL as my top 2 priorities since May, and see no reason to change. I just think that it's easier to find good offensive linemen on day 2 and 3 - especially guards - than stud DEs and DTs. Jahri Evans and Josh Sitton were 4th round picks, Carl Nicks a 6th rounder. Brian Waters was a UDFA in 1999. But there's no doubt this is an area that the team needs to address.
     
  3. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    My argument would be:

    A) DT is not a huge immediate priority - It would be difficult for a draftee to break in to the Wilfork/Love partnership. I understand the argument about giving Wilfork more rest and investing for the future, perfectly legitimate arguments but I just don't think it's as essential need as interior OL. Having said that, if an outstanding DT is comfortably the BPA with our first round pick, of course I wouldn't have a problem with a pick.

    B) There is such quality at the top end for interior offensive linemen, I'm of the opinion that it would be an opportunity missed not to take one. Chance Warmack might be a better run blocker than most NFL OG's are right now. Jonathan Cooper is though in some quarters to be better than DeCastro and Barrett Jones and Dallas Thomas are as comfortable playing tackle as well as guard.

    Your argument is equally valid, I just think we're more likely to come out of this draft with a long-term starter and maybe star by going OL rather than DT.
     
  4. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I never claimed sole rights to the importance of the grizzly, we all know how your rather unnatural obsession with big men ( :p ).
     
  5. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #3 Jersey

    Naturally, I'm very happy that you're on board with the focus on Offensive Guard, Brother Manx...But you're not exactly the first guy to prioritize that position, hereabouts. ;)

    I hope you'll forgive a Dog for emoting a whiff of Territoriality, Sir. :cool:

    But there simply isn't a Soul that places Offensive Guard higher on the Championship Building Blue Print Priority List than I do. I've been pounding the table for the last 3 years ~ ever since I got here ~ for us to rack up High Caliber O Guards...and 99% of what I get back is Arguments about either the position's alleged lack of importance ~ I'm pretty sure that Vince Lombardi and his 5 Championships in 7 years would be on my side on this one :snob: ~ or about how easy it is to pick up decent talent later in the Draft.

    You can't go cheap on O Guard and expect to win the only games that matter, in the Dark Depths of Winter.

    2007 should've taught us that.

    2011 should've taught us that.

    Had we rolled with my Mock, this Spring, Amini Silatolu ~ #40 to the Panthers ~ would've picked up for Dan Connolly at Right Guard...and we'd be 3-0, right now.

    And Senio Kelemete would almost certainly be starting at Left Guard, today.

    Both of these guys are fully capable of racking up as many as 10 Pro Bowls, each.
     
  6. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #3 Jersey

    Don't judge me, Brother Manx. ;)
     
  7. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Funnily enough, I do factor in how a player looks on the field when I like a player. My favourite ever player was Walter Payton, in part because he just looked so good on the field. Mark Barron was another. Yes, he was an outstanding safety, but he looked damn good doing what he did. One prospect interesting me this year is Quinton Patton the La Tech WR. Again, I can make the logical case for why he's a good prospect but in part I like him as a prospect because he looks like an NFL player.
     
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My counter-argument (accepting that both points of view are valid) would be:

    A) Defensive line and offensive line are both ALWAYS a priority. I'd rate those positions as the second and third most important areas on the team after QB. And I subscribe to the concepts of building a "pipeline" at key positions and to "overloading" on talent. Vince Wilfork will be 31 in just over a month, and he played 86% of the snaps last year. He is arguably the most indispensible player on the team after Brady. Why wait until he gets injured or hits the wall to look for another stud DT. Kyle Love has made remarkable progress, but he is never going to be another Wilfork-type player. Take away Wilfork and you're left with Love (contract year)-Brace (contract year)-Deaderick-Pryor (contract year and injured).

    B) I would have no argument with taking Chance Warmack in the first round, and probably not Barrett Jones. Maybe Jonathan Cooper and Dallas Thomas. Certainly a trade back or trade up to take them in the 2nd round would be fine by me. But I think that there are excellent values to be found later in the draft. I've mentioned Mark Jackson before. Larry Warford of Kentucky is another big guard with unexpectedly quick feet for his size. There's always the potential of moving Marcus Cannon to RG (and remember, Cannon was at least as highly regarded as any of these guys coming out of his senior season). A platoon of Mankins-Connolly-Cannon would not be terrible. So while I think that OL is always a key position and requires an infusion of youth and talent, I don't see any need to "draft for need" and look for an immediate starter on OL.

    Again, it's preference. I certainly understand the OL-first argument. But for me, I'd prioritize completing building an elite DL, and then add some quality developmental talent on OL. As Grid has mentioned, we've passed up several appealing candidates, most recently Senio Kelemente.
     
  9. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm just upset there might be a need for another starting cornerback. I'm sick of cornerbacks. McCourty and Dowling need to step up. Hopefully today is the day. Save me from watching cornerbacks this year.
     
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm personally not evaluating the secondary at this time. There are too many variables. I want to see whether McCourty settles down and plays consistently, how Dowling, Wilson and Ebner develop, what happens with Chung and Arrington in contract years, etc. The secondary could be anything from a huge need (which would upset me, as well) or a relative non-need. I'm very much hoping for the latter, as the team needs to be able to address other areas without constantly re-investing in the secondary.
     
  11. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Fair enough. you know what all this means. BB will draft a QB or RB in the first round.
     
  12. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    In order of need...

    Starting RG
    Starting OC
    Starting WR
    #3 TE
    Starting LDE
    Backup ILB
    Swing OT
    Backup DT

    In order that I would draft them...

    1st: RG, WR, OT
    2nd: RG, DE
    3rd: OC, TE
    4th: OL, DL
    7th: TE, OL, DL
     
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I've seen today, the OL has held its own. An impact LDE opposite Chandler Jones would really be the only immediate addition to the defense. Dane Fletcher will hopefully be back to play the backup ILB role.
     
  14. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Mea culpa time. I called this wrong, the OL have been outstanding today. 170 rushing yards with a quarter to go against Williams/Dareus. Fair play to them.
     
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good man. The OL earned their Wheaties today, no doubt about it. What a dominating, physical, punishing performance. No "finesse offense". Balanced, physical and dominating.

    I still want young OL, but I see no reason not to keep working with what we've got while adding some promising youngsters at tackle and guard. But if today is any indication, how far this team goes won't be limited by the OL.
     
  16. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Well I'm not going to change my mock because of one game but the OL did very well. In some ways todays game confirmed the need for an OL high. If we are going towards a more run orientated offense which I think is, in part, a post-Brady preparation strategy then we need the tools to do it.
     
  17. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    Two safeties and a linebacker who can defend the pass are the needs arising out of that game. McCourty help up much better today but Chung and Gregory are not the best and I'd be happy if both were replaced in the short to medium term.
     
  18. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I badly wanted Lavonte David in the last draft, who is as good a coverage LB prospect as there has been in a while. However, Dane Fletcher was pretty decent and he will hopefully be back next year. And Dion Jordan, my draft binky for 2013, is good enough in coverage to play slot CB.

    Tavon Wilson continues to look solid, and I have hopes that Nate Ebner will develop. I'm not ready to evaluate the need at safety. Gregory looks like a rotational/backup guy so far, but it's still early. Chung is limited in coverage, though he's a decent overall player.
     
  19. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought the OL played very well at Baltimore. Kept TB clean most of the night in a tough environment. Superb today. Without Mankins. I'm with ya Mayo. A bookend opposite Chandler would be my preference. Especially, since it appears to be an area of strength in this draft.

    Might be thinking too far ahead. I'd guess Spikes leaves as a free agent after his contract is up. 2013 is final year. Slide Hightower inside. Take a 4-3 olb who can play in space. I still remember a tackle David made on Silas Redd towards the end of the PSU/Nebraska game. 4th and one. Well blocked. He meets Redd in the hole and stoned him.

    On offense I'd prefer a 3rd tackle, wr and an interior ol. In that order. Not taking a guard in the first round with the way the game is played any longer.

    We have some people coming back next year who can fill in at certain positions. Jake Ballard will be our 3rd te. Jeff Demps could give Woodhead the boot. Or Vereen. Dane Fletcher as you mentioned.
     
  20. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would have to agree that just a pure coverage athlete at LB would be a really nice addition to this D. But that is more of a nice to have than a must have. Not to say it wouldn't make our 3rd down D better.

    Only place i think this D would really get some mileage is a DE across from Jones. I am actually pretty optimistic about our secondary as i think that we could have had another 3-4 INT's over the last few games if we had held onto them.

    Other than that i think we are young and talented and need some time throughout this season to see what we have with our young DB's
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012

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