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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Merril Hoge's Tie Knot, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    Needs

    Starting G
    Need a Waters replacement because RG is probably the biggest hole in the starting lineups. Mankins isn't getting any younger either.

    Starting FB
    It’s been a revolving door since McDaniels returned, and now there are none. It'd be nice to get a dependable one.

    CB potentially
    A lot is still TBD

    LDE potentially
    A lot is still TBD


    Wants

    Rotational C
    We have three. None of them are young and good.

    Rotational T
    Need some depth there - a tackle that can play both sides.

    Developmental DT
    I’d like to get some upside at such an important position.

    Developmental Outside WR
    Somebody smart and quick, with good hands.

    Developmental QB
    Need to bring in another QB to increase the odds the Brady's eventual successor is on the roster.
  2. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    ATippett56 said this in the prospect thread, and while I agree, I think it merits it's own thread.

  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's still early, and a lot depends on how certain key players develop and/or their health and contract status. Sebastian Vollmer played the entire game at RT against Baltimore. A healthy Vollmer changes the equation at RT drastically, and might also allow Marcus Cannon to move to RG.

    Right now I agree that a LDE opposite Chandler Jones is a huge need. I'm personally not comfortable with any of Rob Ninkovich, Jermaine Cunningham or Jake Bequette being that guy, though all 3 should be contributors. I still see a need for another DT, especially as Wilfork is on the wrong side of 30.

    I'm personally holding off assessing the secondary until later in the season. I think it's too early to make judgments. Both Pat Chung and Kyle Arrington are in contract years, and I doubt both of them will stay, so I can see a need somewhere in this area as well.
  4. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    I'm not sure a healthy Vollmer is anything to count on anymore. BB has seemed reluctant to use Cannon at guard. Either way I think Cannon needs to shave some weight to get quicker and more balanced.
  5. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Spencer Larsen was placed on injured reserve while Tony Fiammetta was placed on the season exempt list for personal reasons.

    Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I'm starting to think that OG is by far and away our biggest need. For most other positions listed above,we can muddle through but we really can't at that RG position, particularly considering Mankins' age and injury problems. I think this is even more relevant considering this exceptionally strong OG field at the top end (we really don't want to be in
    the position of drafting two OGs next year.
  7. nekromantique

    nekromantique Rookie

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    I'd say Love fits that mold, though i agree DT is still a position of need.


    I think O-Line comes down to vollmers health and where they plan to play Cannon. coming out of college everyone figured he was more suited for guard, and he was drafted as a guard...but the pats continue to play him at tackle (because of vollmers health)...so its unclear how well hed play at RG.


    True #1 CB
    DE opposite Jones (could even be cunningham honestly)
    a good rushing DT
    RT/RG
    Outside WR with good size and speed.

    I would say CB and DE are the most important...followed by DT and RT/RG

    our receiver situation is decent for next year.
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  8. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    In no particular order:

    Offense -
    WR, pref a tall & fast one (Torrey Smith & Jacoby Jones v Edelman & Branch = No Contest);
    OG, so Connolly can return to Center;
    OT, as a legit backup/replacement for Vollmer;
    FB, for the attitude this soft as Charmin, choke-artist offense so desperately needs;

    Defense -
    DE - Ninkovich completely sux, he was better at LB;
    OLB - our LBs are the slowest in football;
    CB - is Dowling the new Darius Butler?
    Safety - Chung had the one good tackle, but blows in coverage.
  9. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    You do realize the New England Patriots only have five draft picks in the 2013 NFL Draft?

    1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 7th round picks
  10. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    One compensatory pick and a couple of draft day trades and The Wiz that is BB gets to fulfill all Captain Stone's desires.
  11. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    Or with 3 free agents. Those still exist right?
  12. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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  13. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    OchoStinko & Fat Albert: the gifts that keep on giving - like herpes.
  14. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Draft on defense, unrestricted free agency on offense.

    QB - Brady, Mallett
    RB - Vereen, Ridley, Bolden, Demps, Larsen/Fiammetta
    WR - Lloyd, Gaffney, Edelman, Salas, Slater
    TE - Gronkowski, Hernandez, Ballard, Fells
    OL - Solder, Mankins, Wendell, Connolly, Vollmer, McDonald, Cannon, Unrestricted Free Agent, Developmental Project

    Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  15. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake Rookie

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    #95 Jersey
    Left End
    Right Guard
    Wide Receiver
  16. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    Cornerbacks!
  17. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Pass-Rushers!

    And despite Bill & Patricia's insistence to the contrary, I do not consider Wilfork a Pass-Rusher.
  18. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    As of today, OG might now be considered priority #1, at least on offense.
  19. Avenger

    Avenger Rookie

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    Move Cannon inside to OG, pick up a backup OT in FA or the Draft. Solder-Mankins-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer would be a good line going forward
  20. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    But can we depend on Mankins going forward? He ain't no spring chicken, and now he has hip issues,
    in addition to his knee issues.
  21. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I've thought this for a while, hence having an OG as my no 1 pick. I suspect after the Buffalo game, there may be more agreeing with me.
  22. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've had DL and OL as my top 2 priorities since May, and see no reason to change. I just think that it's easier to find good offensive linemen on day 2 and 3 - especially guards - than stud DEs and DTs. Jahri Evans and Josh Sitton were 4th round picks, Carl Nicks a 6th rounder. Brian Waters was a UDFA in 1999. But there's no doubt this is an area that the team needs to address.
  23. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    My argument would be:

    A) DT is not a huge immediate priority - It would be difficult for a draftee to break in to the Wilfork/Love partnership. I understand the argument about giving Wilfork more rest and investing for the future, perfectly legitimate arguments but I just don't think it's as essential need as interior OL. Having said that, if an outstanding DT is comfortably the BPA with our first round pick, of course I wouldn't have a problem with a pick.

    B) There is such quality at the top end for interior offensive linemen, I'm of the opinion that it would be an opportunity missed not to take one. Chance Warmack might be a better run blocker than most NFL OG's are right now. Jonathan Cooper is though in some quarters to be better than DeCastro and Barrett Jones and Dallas Thomas are as comfortable playing tackle as well as guard.

    Your argument is equally valid, I just think we're more likely to come out of this draft with a long-term starter and maybe star by going OL rather than DT.
  24. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I never claimed sole rights to the importance of the grizzly, we all know how your rather unnatural obsession with big men ( :p ).
  25. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    Naturally, I'm very happy that you're on board with the focus on Offensive Guard, Brother Manx...But you're not exactly the first guy to prioritize that position, hereabouts. ;)

    I hope you'll forgive a Dog for emoting a whiff of Territoriality, Sir. :cool:

    But there simply isn't a Soul that places Offensive Guard higher on the Championship Building Blue Print Priority List than I do. I've been pounding the table for the last 3 years ~ ever since I got here ~ for us to rack up High Caliber O Guards...and 99% of what I get back is Arguments about either the position's alleged lack of importance ~ I'm pretty sure that Vince Lombardi and his 5 Championships in 7 years would be on my side on this one :snob: ~ or about how easy it is to pick up decent talent later in the Draft.

    You can't go cheap on O Guard and expect to win the only games that matter, in the Dark Depths of Winter.

    2007 should've taught us that.

    2011 should've taught us that.

    Had we rolled with my Mock, this Spring, Amini Silatolu ~ #40 to the Panthers ~ would've picked up for Dan Connolly at Right Guard...and we'd be 3-0, right now.

    And Senio Kelemete would almost certainly be starting at Left Guard, today.

    Both of these guys are fully capable of racking up as many as 10 Pro Bowls, each.
  26. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    Don't judge me, Brother Manx. ;)
  27. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Funnily enough, I do factor in how a player looks on the field when I like a player. My favourite ever player was Walter Payton, in part because he just looked so good on the field. Mark Barron was another. Yes, he was an outstanding safety, but he looked damn good doing what he did. One prospect interesting me this year is Quinton Patton the La Tech WR. Again, I can make the logical case for why he's a good prospect but in part I like him as a prospect because he looks like an NFL player.
  28. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My counter-argument (accepting that both points of view are valid) would be:

    A) Defensive line and offensive line are both ALWAYS a priority. I'd rate those positions as the second and third most important areas on the team after QB. And I subscribe to the concepts of building a "pipeline" at key positions and to "overloading" on talent. Vince Wilfork will be 31 in just over a month, and he played 86% of the snaps last year. He is arguably the most indispensible player on the team after Brady. Why wait until he gets injured or hits the wall to look for another stud DT. Kyle Love has made remarkable progress, but he is never going to be another Wilfork-type player. Take away Wilfork and you're left with Love (contract year)-Brace (contract year)-Deaderick-Pryor (contract year and injured).

    B) I would have no argument with taking Chance Warmack in the first round, and probably not Barrett Jones. Maybe Jonathan Cooper and Dallas Thomas. Certainly a trade back or trade up to take them in the 2nd round would be fine by me. But I think that there are excellent values to be found later in the draft. I've mentioned Mark Jackson before. Larry Warford of Kentucky is another big guard with unexpectedly quick feet for his size. There's always the potential of moving Marcus Cannon to RG (and remember, Cannon was at least as highly regarded as any of these guys coming out of his senior season). A platoon of Mankins-Connolly-Cannon would not be terrible. So while I think that OL is always a key position and requires an infusion of youth and talent, I don't see any need to "draft for need" and look for an immediate starter on OL.

    Again, it's preference. I certainly understand the OL-first argument. But for me, I'd prioritize completing building an elite DL, and then add some quality developmental talent on OL. As Grid has mentioned, we've passed up several appealing candidates, most recently Senio Kelemente.
  29. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rookie

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    I'm just upset there might be a need for another starting cornerback. I'm sick of cornerbacks. McCourty and Dowling need to step up. Hopefully today is the day. Save me from watching cornerbacks this year.
  30. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm personally not evaluating the secondary at this time. There are too many variables. I want to see whether McCourty settles down and plays consistently, how Dowling, Wilson and Ebner develop, what happens with Chung and Arrington in contract years, etc. The secondary could be anything from a huge need (which would upset me, as well) or a relative non-need. I'm very much hoping for the latter, as the team needs to be able to address other areas without constantly re-investing in the secondary.

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