Comparing Cutler, Cassel trades

[Mogamedogz]

This deal makes me sad.

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

the broncos are a really bad football team right now..........the draft picks they have aren't going to help them soon enough for mcdaniel to keep his job.........

no QB
no RB

champ bailey is the only corner who would make the pats, their dumervil and williams is it in the front 7

maybe 2 wins.......maybe

the broncos were lucky to get what they got.....the team wasn't going anywhere anyway

Last offseason with the Arizona Cardinals around this time...

Larry Fitzgerald was too pigheaded to restructure his overbloated rookie contract.

He was ALMOST traded to Philly for a couple of garbage players b/c...

They didn't have the cap room to sign FAs with Fitz's enormous contract - Whisenhunt's apple of his eye, Alan Faneca, went through their fingertips.

They ALMOST didn't have the cap room to sign their draft picks.

Fitz ended up restructuring, but the damage was already done.

They were left with an 50 year old QB and a 1st round bust.

They were left with a 40 year old RB.

They were left with OL issues.

You know the rest of the story...

 

[The Boston Patriot]

We got jipped. No ands, ifs or buts.

+1 - BB had to deal to get back the franchise money and get Vrabel off the
books and the result was we got hosed.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

No I'm not. The Bears upgraded their QB position, but at too high of a cost. It's a good business move by them because they save a lot of money and will easily sell out. Let's call it the "Ralph Wilson" plan. I don't see it as a great football move.



That's in two years. For all anybody knows the NFL could be in the middle of a lock out. The Bears appear to be in survival mode and are just looking at the next year or two. This kind of stuff makes it all the better to be a Pats fan.

If they "upgraded" the most important position on the field at "too high of a cost," I don't understand how that's a good business move. A good business move in the NFL is to upgrade a position at a price that reflects the value gained. If the price is too high in relation to the value gained, it's a bad business move.

The only way to justify this is as a "football move" that is supposed to enhance the franchise's perceived economic value. For now, I'd argue it's both a questionable business move and a questionable football move for the Bears. If Cutler delivers a Lombardi and enhances the value of the franchise, it will turn out to have been a good move all around; if he doesn't, it won't.

As I said in my original post, the fact that they're saving money on first round draft picks is neither here nor there and doesn't go to the question of whether this is a good or bad business move. The right pick (Manning) is worth the price; the wrong pick (Leaf) is not.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Why exactly would Denver suck?

They still have two great receivers, good tight end, and two young and great tackles.

Great running backs can be had in the 3rd round and they can get a QB that might actually give them a chance to win more games than he loses.

 

[Frezo]

If they "upgraded" the most important position on the field at "too high of a cost," I don't understand how that's a good business move. A good business move in the NFL is to upgrade a position at a price that reflects the value gained. If the price is too high in relation to the value gained, it's a bad business move.

You're missing what I'm trying to say or I'm not saying it well. The Bears did this to purely from their own business standpoint. They see it as a good business move because they can pocket some cash, appease the fans and give the appearance of moving forward. That doesn't mean that it is actually a good NFL business move. It's ownership acting like Ralph Wilson and just doing enough to maintain the franchise and still have a happy fan base. We may see more teams in pure survival mode given the economy and the CBA issue. Do you understand what I'm trying say?

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Last offseason with the Arizona Cardinals around this time...

Larry Fitzgerald was too pigheaded to restructure his overbloated rookie contract.

He was ALMOST traded to Philly for a couple of garbage players b/c...

They didn't have the cap room to sign FAs with Fitz's enormous contract - Whisenhunt's apple of his eye, Alan Faneca, went through their fingertips.

They ALMOST didn't have the cap room to sign their draft picks.

Fitz ended up restructuring, but the damage was already done.

They were left with an 50 year old QB and a 1st round bust.

They were left with a 40 year old RB.

They were left with OL issues.

You know the rest of the story...

oh yeah....what was I thinkin'???? now that you say it, the broncos have the blueprint.......LMFAO

 

[tanked_as_usual]

:blahblah:

Why exactly would Denver suck?

They still have two great receivers, good tight end, and two young and great tackles.

Great running backs can be had in the 3rd round and they can get a QB that might actually give them a chance to win more games than he loses.

oh yeah........they're right on the edge

but then there's the defense.........igsfly:

 

[jcdavey]

you can't compare the two because one qb was tagged and due a crapton, and one is still under contract for 3 whole years

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

You can't compare them because Cutler didn't come with a $15M bill.

Without question.......... two totally different situations and its impossible to hold them up side-by-side and judge them.

Perhaps a better judge is ranking the teams on how they fared in the deals. Of the 4, here is how I rank them.

1) Denver - Big winner. Not only dumped a sub .500, whiney malcontent that JM knew he did not want, but they got a BOATLOAD of picks and a somewhat serviceable potential starter (who will likely fare better in Denver's system then Chicago's). Depending on how those picks are parlayed, he can do a lot of defensive damage in the draft, which they sorely need. They may struggle for a year or so, but are potentially set up well to bhuld for the future.

2) New England - Took a 7th that had not started in forever, but had one great year in relief and was due to walk for nothing at the end of the year and parlayed him into a VERY SOLID value pick at #32. Did it all quick enough to still be able to be as aggressive as they wanted in FA and avoided cap prison. Cleared some more cap room on an overpriced LB. No risk, no nothing.... Straight up turned nothing into something.

3) KC - Pretty much on par with NE. They took on a little more risk, as it remains to be seen if Cassel was a one-year wonder and will struggle outside our system. Plus, he comes at a pretty steep price, given that he is only guaranteed 1 year there. Huge potential upside, but a little risky. They somewhat negated the risk by also getting an old sage LB that will be an invaluable locker room guy for them. Since they had the money, it's worth the risk. They upgraded at QB.

4) Chicago - Got hosed. Cutler is going to struggle there. Their offense is terrible and Cutler is proven to melt down and struggle at the worst times in a GOOD OFFENSE so I see nothing good for him in Chicago. The crying will start early there. Plus, the price they paid was steep. Sure they got their sub .500 franchise QB, but now have no picks or leverage to surround him with ANY weapons to throw to. The only upside is Cutler's skinny contract for the next 3 years.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Giving up picks like this is SO UN-Jerry Angelo like.

Getting a gunslinging QB is SO UN-Lovie "I Play Dungy Ball" Smith like.

To boot - they needed an MLB/FS to (eventually)replace ageing Urlacher/Brown with that #1.

In a way, isn't Cutler basically mega-Grossman?

 

[italian pat patriot]

i went for 'option n.2'

 

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

In a way, isn't Cutler basically mega-Grossman?

Grossman could have been a pretty good QB - he had injuries early in his career that ended up stunting his growth. He was actually making progress in late '03 and early '04(before he tore up his knee in the latter). And, of course, he broke his ankle in '05 preseason and missed so many weeks, before crapping the bed due to rust in the playoffs.

He did have an MVP Sept '06, but afterwards, DCs ended up seeing his poor ball security skills and throwing into double coverage alot(which he got away with alot during the first 5 weeks) on game tape.

Anyhow - I think Cutler IS a good QB - came from Vanderbilt which, of course, is in the toughest conference(SEC) in the country, and he's shown some very good skills. Nonetheless, like with TO, he may "show" you "glowing" stats, and "win" you "some" games, but ultimately, you'll come up very empty-handed when all is said and done.

 

[DarrylS]

Option #2.. Unfortunately Cassel is still unproven, he played for a great O and had great receivers.. he did not show he could do it with middle of the road receivers.. he may be worth more later, but right now..

 

[JoeShmoe]

Option #2.. Unfortunately Cassel is still unproven, he played for a great O and had great receivers.. he did not show he could do it with middle of the road receivers.. he may be worth more later, but right now..

I agree .. lets see what MC does in KC .. and even if he gets the starting job over Thigpen

The hysteria over this is mind boggling .. we got a good deal,, in time to let us move in FA (and tie up some really good acquisitions) for a backup QB who may never have played in TB didnt go down

 

[Brarrell]

who really cares now if we did or didnt get enough for cassel the guys been traded lets move on.

I totally agree who started this thread anyway those two knuckleheads on WEEI in the morning.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Uhhhh tanked

I didn't say they were Super Bowl ready. However, saying they are destined to win 2 games is a lil much.

The Broncos have signed FA's and have picks.

You might want to check the Dolphins/Falcons last year and the Pats in '01 before making stupid comments.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

you can't compare the two because one qb was tagged and due a crapton, and one is still under contract for 3 whole years

As my post made clear, I wasn't asking for objective comparisons—after all, if some of us are right about our projections of performance, this trade is only going to look sillier a couple of years from now—but rather, subjective thoughts on the two.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Uhhhh tanked

I didn't say they were Super Bowl ready. However, saying they are destined to win 2 games is a lil much.

The Broncos have signed FA's and have picks.

You might want to check the Dolphins/Falcons last year and the Pats in '01 before making stupid comments.

uhhh........shaddup.........another one who provide irrelevant examples......look at the chiefs, the lions the rams and what happens when you have little to no talent on the roster

as of right now, the broncos starting defense has 6-7 guys who would not start on most NFL teams..........they could not stop the run and they could not stop the pass and they have nobody on their defense where you can say 'oh look, they're young but these guys are learning'....little quality and little depth

not only that, but this is who they play beyond their division: pats,colts,steelers,ravens,bengals,browns,cowboys,eagles,redskins,giants......out of that bunch, I see 2 games where they might compete......at least they have the raiders and chiefs if they are lucky, they'll have 4 wins

the only think stupid here is your example of why they may succeed........

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

You can't compare them because Cutler didn't come with a $15M bill.

I think that this is a great point. To me THIS, along with the linked need to move quickly in FA, is WHY we got what we should have for Cassel.

I DO think that CHI overpaid for Cutlet... and to be real, after this particular stunt, I wouldn't want him on my team.

DEN has 4 first round picks over the next 2 years... add their 2 seconds and their 3 thirds and... well, that's SEVEN starters (assuming that they draft well).... they're already covered at WR and TE, I like their RB stable, have Clady at T, some up and comers in the backfield (I'm not counting Champ and Dawkins as I'm not sure how much longer they have).... AND they have Sims (a pretty tough mofo... defines playing through pain)... if I was a DEN fan, I'd be pretty excited right now.

Just my two pennies.