Comparing Cutler, Cassel trades

[BionicPatriot]

I just think some of you are ridiculous.

You cannot compare Cassel to Cutler. 2 pro bowls to none. You have a guy thats put up good numbers for a few years, and a guy who put up GOOD not close to great numbers in 1 year, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

I don't hate on Cassel, but they couldn't wait. What if we would have lost out on FAs? We needed the space, ASAP. Another thing, do you guys think for one second BB did Pioli a favor? No, obviously, there was no first rounder on the table. It is what it is, but thinking Cassel had the same value Cutler had is just insane. It's just not raitonal thinking.

 

[Deus Irae]

I just think some of you are ridiculous.

You cannot compare Cassel to Cutler. 2 pro bowls to none. You have a guy thats put up good numbers for a few years, and a guy who put up GOOD not close to great numbers in 1 year, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

I don't hate on Cassel, but they couldn't wait. What if we would have lost out on FAs? We needed the space, ASAP. Another thing, do you guys think for one second BB did Pioli a favor? No, obviously, there was no first rounder on the table. It is what it is, but thinking Cassel had the same value Cutler had is just insane. It's just not raitonal thinking.

Both Rivers and Cassel were more deserving of Pro Bowl status than Cutler last season, and that was Cutler's first Pro Bowl.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Both Rivers and Cassel were more deserving of Pro Bowl status than Cutler last season, and that was Cutler's first Pro Bowl.

Yes - let's not get overly caught up in a Pro Bowl none of us, and probably few of the GMs, take all that seriously.

That being said there's some signfiicant differences, and one can't lose sight of the fact that once it was announced that Cutler was up for trade there were a dozen teams that were near openly admitting their strong interest in him.

We didn't see anything near that with Cassel.

We can debate "why" - whether it was because Cassel's one year contract was worth as much as Cutler's 3 year contract (I'm oversimplifying a bit) or the fact that Cutler WAS under contract for a longer period of time, or questions about whether Cassel would look more like he did in pre-season last year if he wasn't playing with Moss and Welker...

But the bottom line is there was signficantly less interest in Cassel and less value to be had.

 

[rainmaker]

I still believe one of the biggest mistakes that this organization made was the Deion Branch trade. Not actually trading him, but the length of time it took to get the 1st rounder. It was widely reported that they had offers, but no 1st rounders. Perhaps, just a second. If we had traded him for less before the season, we would have been in position to get a real free agent WR rather than JAGs like Reche Caldwell. If that happened, I have no doubt we'd be sitting here with our 4th Lombardi. Lombardi + 2nd rounder >>>>> 1st round pick.

I see the Cassel situation as BB learning from that mistake and moving him fast for less compensation in order to best position us for a run at the Lombardi this year. I also believe if he had waited, we would have gotten a 1st rounder plus from Denver or another team.

I'd rather have the Lombardi.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yes - let's not get overly caught up in a Pro Bowl none of us, and probably few of the GMs, take all that seriously.

That being said there's some signfiicant differences, and one can't lose sight of the fact that once it was announced that Cutler was up for trade there were a dozen teams that were near openly admitting their strong interest in him.

We didn't see anything near that with Cassel.

We can debate "why" - whether it was because Cassel's one year contract was worth as much as Cutler's 3 year contract (I'm oversimplifying a bit) or the fact that Cutler WAS under contract for a longer period of time, or questions about whether Cassel would look more like he did in pre-season last year if he wasn't playing with Moss and Welker...

But the bottom line is there was signficantly less interest in Cassel and less value to be had.

Given the teams involved and the myriad of reasons they were, it remains to be seen if there was less value to be had...

Cutler wanted a big, market deal before Shanny got the axe. Likely still does. But he's between something of a rock and a hard place of his own making now in Chicago. He can't really ask because the damage he did to his image negates the usual leverage he'd have had in this situation, and if Angelo is nearly as bright as he is notoriously tight fisted, the subject won't even be broached until 2010. And if he hasn't earned a big extension after this season, there will have been less than no value in trading 2 firsts and a third for Cutler.

I've heard speculation that the Cassel camp being content to let things play out under the tag limited trade value. Only that was not the case as his camp was somewhat stunned that his trade didn't include the standard immediate extension. It didn't have to because Pioli traded for him as is because he has cap room he can't spend on anything else this season and can't carry over into an uncapped year. So he's able to treat him like he's still got to prove he was even worth the tag. A few more teams should have thought outside the box on this given their cap status.

In 2010 the revenue from a renovated Arrowhead will start to flow and he can talk long term potentially cap friendly deal with Cassel once the 2009 season is in the books. He's letting the pooled revenue rather than the Hunt's stadium revenue stream pay for his new QB this season so KC can exceed the cap floor...and the team centric philosophy will be served as his new franchise QB will have to earn his long term security like the guy in NE did, as opposed to getting it handed to him based on one season. That's also why he was introduced in a conference call as opposed to via the big deal PC...

 

[Rob0729]

Both Rivers and Cassel were more deserving of Pro Bowl status than Cutler last season, and that was Cutler's first Pro Bowl.

Add Pennington to that list. I think the Pro Bowl was irrelevant in the decisions between Cassel and Cutler whether to go after them. I think the general perception is that Cassel was a product of a system and the talent around him. I read somewhere that GMs were scared off that 55% of his passing yards were YAC which was easily the highest in the league.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Add Pennington to that list. I think the Pro Bowl was irrelevant in the decisions between Cassel and Cutler whether to go after them. I think the general perception is that Cassel was a product of a system and the talent around him. I read somewhere that GMs were scared off that 55% of his passing yards were YAC which was easily the highest in the league.

Which is silly because YAC is also a byproduct of the QB getting the ball to the right guy in the right place to get YAC... This spin was a byproduct of Reiss overthinking being dead wrong about Cassel in pre season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I just think some of you are ridiculous.

You cannot compare Cassel to Cutler. 2 pro bowls to none. You have a guy thats put up good numbers for a few years, and a guy who put up GOOD not close to great numbers in 1 year, throwing to Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

I don't hate on Cassel, but they couldn't wait. What if we would have lost out on FAs? We needed the space, ASAP. Another thing, do you guys think for one second BB did Pioli a favor? No, obviously, there was no first rounder on the table. It is what it is, but thinking Cassel had the same value Cutler had is just insane. It's just not raitonal thinking.

It was one pro bowl in a non Brady season in which the guy who replaced Brady performed better when it counted. Cutler got in by default due to empty yardage and voter stupidity (selecting Favre as a starter...). And if Hoculi hadn't blown that call Rivers probably would have been the third runner up leader in the clubhouse.

 

[Rob0729]

Which is silly because YAC is also a byproduct of the QB getting the ball to the right guy in the right place to get YAC... This spin was a byproduct of Reiss overthinking being dead wrong about Cassel in pre season.

I agree at least to a point since you need a system and an OC who is going to run an offense where the receivers are going to produce YAC especially if Cassel is best suited for that type of system. But that doesn't mean that GMs don't think that way.

 

[Lakeville Glenn]

... without reading all 3 pages of the thread, my apologies if I'm repeating someone...

One major difference it that Cutler is under contract for I think 3 more years... at a very cap friendly price.

Cassel is a franchised player with a rediculously high cap hit this year ...who is free to sign with whoever he wants as a free agent at the end of next season. KC has no controll over him at that point.

so don't look at it as "tallent for tallent", look at it as
- a 3 yr QB at a bargain basement price
vs.
- a 1 yr QB with a painfully high cap hit

 

[Miguel]

Cassel is a franchised player with a rediculously high cap hit this year ...who is free to sign with whoever he wants as a free agent at the end of next season. KC has no controll over him at that point.

Not exactly. Cassel will be an RFA next year if 2010 remains uncapped. If 2010 is capped, KC could franchise Cassel.

so don't look at it as "tallent for tallent", look at it as
- a 3 yr QB at a bargain basement price
vs.
- a 1 yr QB with a painfully high cap hit

Given that the Chiefs are way under the cap (by about 34 million according to the latest report, Cassel's franchise tag number is not causing the Chiefs any pain.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Fine. There's a difference between saying that this was "a good business move" (which you said earlier) vs. saying that the Bears "see it as a good business move" (which you say above). Clearly the Bears thought it was a good business move or they wouldn't have made it. Kind of tautological. I'm just arguing that the simple fact that the Bears thought it was a good business move doesn't make it such. You haven't said anything that convinces me otherwise.

What Frezo's saying is that if it saves some cash and appeases the fanbase, then it was a good short-term business move. he's been pretty consistent in that viewpoint, IMO, and it makes sense to me. Won't help them win games, but it'll help the bottom line.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Which is silly because YAC is also a byproduct of the QB getting the ball to the right guy in the right place to get YAC... This spin was a byproduct of Reiss overthinking being dead wrong about Cassel in pre season.

One of my least favorite things to see is when a WR has separation, but has to slow up to catch a ball that was thrown behind him, allowing the defender to close the gap and make the tackle. There's something to be said for hitting a receiver in-stride: YAC isn't all about the WR- it also reflects on the QB, and those numbers make it pretty clear that Cassel was hitting his receivers in stride.