Clowney: Overhyped or the next great thing?

[ivanvamp]

Good article here: (Jadeveon Clowney will get NFL draft stock back on track at combine | The MMQB with Peter King)

Personally, I think he's going to be an absolute beast in the NFL. I know there's no realistic way for the Patriots to get this guy, but what would you be willing to trade in order to get him? The thought of him on one side and Chandler Jones on the other for the next 10 years has me salivating. He would be a total defensive game-changer, IMO.

 

[Kontradiction]

Good article here: (Jadeveon Clowney will get NFL draft stock back on track at combine | The MMQB with Peter King)

Personally, I think he's going to be an absolute beast in the NFL. I know there's no realistic way for the Patriots to get this guy, but what would you be willing to trade in order to get him? The thought of him on one side and Chandler Jones on the other for the next 10 years has me salivating. He would be a total defensive game-changer, IMO.

The Pats would have to trade damn near their entire draft to get him. No thanks. The only way I'd be even somewhat willing to do that is if the next great once in a generation quarterback is coming out, and even then I would be extremely leery.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think he's a little bit of both. There's no doubting the physical talent, but the mental makeup is a question mark - questionable work ethic, leadership, and other intangibles. He's gotten by so much on physical skill, it's not clear how he'll adapt to being a "professional" and dealing with less of a physical gap in ability.

There's no such thing as a "sure thing" in the NFL, no matter how talented the prospect. IMO, the best thing for his career would be for Houston to take him #1 and put him under JJ Watt's tutelage.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

I think he's a little bit of both. There's no doubting the physical talent, but the mental makeup is a question mark - questionable work ethic, leadership, and other intangibles. He's gotten by so much on physical skill, it's not clear how he'll adapt to being a "professional" and dealing with less of a physical gap in ability.

There's no such thing as a "sure thing" in the NFL, no matter how talented the prospect. IMO, the best thing for his career would be for Houston to take him #1 and put him under JJ Watt's tutelage.

Agreed on the no sure thing part. I don't understand why people have to think about prospects as "yes" or "no" all the time. As black and white.

Sure things don't exist. There's no such thing as a sure thing. Just probabilities. An infinite spectrum of outcomes, each outcome differentiated from the rest by the number of possible paths that can see it to fruition.

Clowney is no sure thing. But given the track record of similarly gifted players, there are many more conceivable outcomes where he will succeed, than where he will fail. In other words, probability is on his side.

 

[Ivan]

I think he's a little bit of both. There's no doubting the physical talent, but the mental makeup is a question mark - questionable work ethic, leadership, and other intangibles. He's gotten by so much on physical skill, it's not clear how he'll adapt to being a "professional" and dealing with less of a physical gap in ability.

There's no such thing as a "sure thing" in the NFL, no matter how talented the prospect. IMO, the best thing for his career would be for Houston to take him #1 and put him under JJ Watt's tutelage.

This is kind of where I am at on it. He is a rare prospect athletically but I simply don't trust the guys who have questionable work ethic. You can coast in college but once you turn pro and have millions and millions in your pocket there has to be a self starting mechanism that drives you to become great and I really wonder if Clowney will push himself once he has those millions. i wouldn't risk it, if I were the texans I would trade back, take Barr, and then add a top flight CB with the extra high pick they would get.

 

[meatface]

I just worry that it will be like last season at S.Carolina and the expectations will be through the roof and he wont be able to match those immediately. I think he is an amazing talent, I just wonder if he wont be crushed under the expectations

 

[Get it shawtaay]

I just worry that it will be like last season at S.Carolina and the expectations will be through the roof and he wont be able to match those immediately. I think he is an amazing talent, I just wonder if he wont be crushed under the expectations

Why does it matter what expectations are though? Isn't all that matters what you get on the field?

Its funny. When people don't throw at a CB, he gets celebrated. He's a "shutdown corner" they say. Anyone who points out their low interception totals gets derided.

Yet when a program considered one of the most talented in the country like Georgia calls an entire game of 3-step drops, no one gives the DE credit for influencing the opposing game plan. No sacks = lazy and not trying. Boy do I miss lazy old Richard Seymour.

And its not like the UGA game was the only time he "felt like playing" this year. vs. Tennessee he notched 6 TFL, drew 2 false starts and an illegal formation. Why? Tiny Richardson was so shook he lined up off the LOS. But obviously since he didn't register a sack he must not have any impact on the game, right?

If you are expected to be Lawrence Taylor and Bruce Smith rolled into one, you will invariably disappoint. But, like Suh a few years ago, he only has to be a mere impact player to fulfill what will be asked of him.

 

[varjao]

The Pats would have to trade damn near their entire draft to get him. No thanks. The only way I'd be even somewhat willing to do that is if the next great once in a generation quarterback is coming out, and even then I would be extremely leery.

I would do that only if you could draft a time machine and get Brady 15 years younger.

 

[ashley]

I really hope Houston passes on him, I don't want the possibility of having to face him and Watt in the playoffs, that could be a really scary line.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I think the narrative that he has no work ethic has taken on a life of its own at this point. He maybe played a little cautious, but he had nowhere to go but down this season and it would certainly have to weigh on your mind if it was your dream to play in the NFL, you knew you would have been the #1 pick and you had no choice but to return. His team still had a successful campaign, with him being triple teamed on nearly every passing down.

His sack numbers were way down, yes. But as for the motivation factor, if he doesn't go #1, don't you think there's a good chance he'll be ANGRY and motivated to show that he should have? There are a lot of athletes who use draft day slight, or the perception of it, to their advantage as motivation for their entire careers.

I agree with Mayo that he's both, but I think he's also the best defensive end prospect I've ever seen. I think whichever teams gets him is getting a once in a generation talent on the d-line. If I'm the Texans I take him, get a QB later either in Rd 2 or via trade up, and watch he and JJ Watt give Andrew Luck nightmares for a decade.

 

[SalemPats]

Clowney is a physical beast, probably going to Houston would be the best for him because he'll be a bit under the radar with JJ Watt there and he's got JJ Watt there

 

[mayoclinic]

Why does it matter what expectations are though? Isn't all that matters what you get on the field?

NFL Network had a nice feature on "top 10 draft busts" the other day. Some of those guys weren't bad players, but they were busts relative to the enormous expectations on them. In the case of Tony Mandarich, when he found out that he couldn't dominate people like he used to in college, he fell apart. He came back 4 years later and was a solid (if never dominant) lineman.

Clowney could end up in the HOF. Or he could take the money and run. Or he could struggle against better competition and crumble under the weight of the expectations. And that's not even factoring in potential injuries.

 

[manxman2601]

Why does it matter what expectations are though? Isn't all that matters what you get on the field?

Its funny. When people don't throw at a CB, he gets celebrated. He's a "shutdown corner" they say. Anyone who points out their low interception totals gets derided.

Yet when a program considered one of the most talented in the country like Georgia calls an entire game of 3-step drops, no one gives the DE credit for influencing the opposing game plan. No sacks = lazy and not trying. Boy do I miss lazy old Richard Seymour.

And its not like the UGA game was the only time he "felt like playing" this year. vs. Tennessee he notched 6 TFL, drew 2 false starts and an illegal formation. Why? Tiny Richardson was so shook he lined up off the LOS. But obviously since he didn't register a sack he must not have any impact on the game, right?

If you are expected to be Lawrence Taylor and Bruce Smith rolled into one, you will invariably disappoint. But, like Suh a few years ago, he only has to be a mere impact player to fulfill what will be asked of him.

I'm so glad you brought up the Tennessee game. It's the one I point to when people start saying that Clowney is overrated. Dominant performance.

 

[SalemPats]

I think the narrative that he has no work ethic has taken on a life of its own at this point. He maybe played a little cautious, but he had nowhere to go but down this season and it would certainly have to weigh on your mind if it was your dream to play in the NFL, you knew you would have been the #1 pick and you had no choice but to return. His team still had a successful campaign, with him being triple teamed on nearly every passing down.

His sack numbers were way down, yes. But as for the motivation factor, if he doesn't go #1, don't you think there's a good chance he'll be ANGRY and motivated to show that he should have? There are a lot of athletes who use draft day slight, or the perception of it, to their advantage as motivation for their entire careers.

I agree with Mayo that he's both, but I think he's also the best defensive end prospect I've ever seen. I think whichever teams gets him is getting a once in a generation talent on the d-line. If I'm the Texans I take him, get a QB later either in Rd 2 or via trade up, and watch he and JJ Watt give Andrew Luck nightmares for a decade.

I agree and disagree at the same time. He was just trying to stay healthy because he's a guaranteed top 5 pick, last year he probably goes #1. He's got all of the tools to be a top player. But saying that you want your best player to compete the hardest. His production levelled off because of effort. Does he have an on/off switch, is it better to have a player whose always on. He's an interesting pick this year

 

[manxman2601]

NFL Network had a nice feature on "top 10 draft busts" the other day. Some of those guys weren't bad players, but they were busts relative to the enormous expectations on them. In the case of Tony Mandarich, when he found out that he couldn't dominate people like he used to in college, he fell apart. He came back 4 years later and was a solid (if never dominant) lineman.

Clowney could end up in the HOF. Or he could take the money and run. Or he could struggle against better competition and crumble under the weight of the expectations. And that's not even factoring in potential injuries.

Doesn't that apply to every prospect?

 

[mayoclinic]

Doesn't that apply to every prospect?

Absolutely. But the weight of expectations is a bit higher when you're being hyped as a generational talent.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Pats would have to trade damn near their entire draft to get him...

I'd do that right now.

Clowney
Kelly
Wilfork
Jones


I'll buy that for a dollar.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'd do that right now.

Clowney
Kelly
Wilfork
Jones


I'll buy that for a dollar.

That would be an epic DL, no doubt. The best in football if Clowney comes out and tears it up. If he doesn't, though, you've just made one of the all time draft blunders and have potentially set your team back a number of years. You've been sky high on Clowney since before the Hit Heard Round the World though, so I'm not surprised to see you say that. I'm of the opinion that I would rather have the entire draft to seal other positions of need (SS, C/OG, TE for example). That said, I am high on Clowney. I think he's the best DE I've seen in a very long time. But I wouldn't trade an entire draft for him.

 

[Kontradiction]

I agree and disagree at the same time. He was just trying to stay healthy because he's a guaranteed top 5 pick, last year he probably goes #1. He's got all of the tools to be a top player. But saying that you want your best player to compete the hardest. His production levelled off because of effort. Does he have an on/off switch, is it better to have a player whose always on. He's an interesting pick this year

On that note, Randy Moss had an on and off switch and he'll be in Canton one day.

 

[Gronkandez]

I'd do that right now.

Clowney
Kelly
Wilfork
Jones


I'll buy that for a dollar.

Unfortunately, like nearly every other stud D Lineman coming out of college, he "doesn't fit the 3-4." I'm sure he could learn or whatever but his responsibilities would probably be to chip the running back and get the TE in coverage. Not exactly the best use of his talents.