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Chiefs fans debate trading 3rd pick overall for Matt Cassel

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Lifer, Jan 27, 2009.

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  1. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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  2. nashvillepatsfan

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  3. ScottieC

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  4. FortressX

    FortressX Rookie

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    The people over there seem to hate Matt.
    I can understand their reluctance about trading the 3rd overall pick, but when I read people saying they wouldn't give up a 3rd round pick for Matt they lose me.
  5. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    LOL, man those guys are greedy...

    when was the last time they ahd a QB anyway...it almost sounds as if they have HOF waiting if they dont get one soon...LOL
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not quite sure this team would want a 3rd...
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So they are hoping to surround the Cassel with a third overall? That would be great for us but we all know Pioli is no idiot. Could we get a first rounder for Cassel? Probably. But not that high of a first round pick.
  8. DNR

    DNR Rookie

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    Same here...can't quite grasp that mentality
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2009
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I was a Chiefs' fan, I wouldn't be all that psyched about keeping the 3rd pick. It is a bit of crap shoot and an expensive one at that. At least with Cassel, Pioli knows what he is getting. Here are some stellar top 5 picks in recent years:

    2003
    Charles Rogers (2nd)
    Dewayne Robertson (4th)

    2004
    Robert Gallery (2nd)

    2005
    Alex Smith (1st)
    Ronnie Brown (2nd) Not a bust, but nowhere good enough to be the second pick in the draft
    Braylon Edwards (3rd) Ditto
    Cedric Benson (4th)
    Cadillac Williams (5th)
    O for 5 in that draft in getting a franchise player.

    2006
    Vince Young (3rd)
    D'Brickishaw Ferguson (4th)

    2007
    JaMarcus Russell (1st)

    2008
    Too early to tell, but Glenn Dorsey and Darren McFadden were really disapointing this season. Vernon Gholston at 6 has been a disaster so far.

    So even if Cassel doesn't build on this year, he may be a safer bet than you get with the third pick.

    Granted I agree that I don't think Belichick wants the third pick and would rather get subsequent picks equalling the value of the third pick. It is too hard to trade out of the top 5 and too expensive to sign a top 5 draft pick who is a crap shoot.
  10. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    I doubt Pioli, having learned a thing or two about the draft, will keep that #3 overall.

    People out here will moan and groan and not understand it, but i wouldnt be surprised to see him trade it down for #2 and #3 and a #1 in 2010 or something and then sign a Garcia-caliber QB. That would give the Chiefs picks #35, a 40-something, #67, and,say #80. with Pioli doing the picking thats a lot of quality.

    thats what always happens here.
  11. JoePats

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    Everyone said the same thing about Parcells last year. I don't doubt Parcells tried to trade the pick but you have to find a dance partner.
  12. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Here's one way that it the fact that it's Pioli could help. He could make a last minute trade-down to, say, somewhere in the 7-10 range, then turn around and flip the new pick to us for Cassell -- IF he had already come to a suitable agreement w/ Cassell about a new contract (or if he were comfortable taking on the one-year franchise deal).

    However, that scenario requires a lot of communication and trust between the Chiefs, the Pats, and Cassell's camp.
  13. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

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  14. WhiZa

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    For the Chiefs it doesn't make sense. Thigpen may not be as good as Cassel, but he's serviceable. If you get rid of the #3 you're losing out on upgrading another position.

    I'm thinking Pioli draft lineman in the first round. The same way the pats started building their team.
  15. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    It's funny that this is even a discussion. To think that during the preseason many here wanted him cut.
  16. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wonder if the question was posed differently - say "if the Chiefs were going to spend the 3rd overall on a rookie QB would you rather they trade that pick for Matt Cassel instead" - would the readers opinions change?
  17. AzPatsFan

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    Illminating review. But it won't change the minds of the draftniks who hoard picks like Midas hoarded Gold. But I disagree with your "Its to hard to trade out of the ..." Bill had the #7 last year, and traded down to 11 or 12 and still got the DROY. And a got another draft pick.

    I would think that Bill would probably move down to 7-8 and pick up a pick; if he didn't use the pick for a stud LOT; and then move down to 10-12 and pick up a stud whatever, and also get another pick. JUST LIKE HE DID LAST YEAR...:p:p:cool:
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  18. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

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    I agree with your post... this IS Pioli that we're talking about.. AND, I believe that he can start negotiations with the Pats for MC with his #34 pick (yes, we can assume that the pick will only sign a 4 year deal... as opposed to a 5 year deal... BUT that pick will be a LOT cheaper than a first rounder, too... AND that pick could BE, or could be packaged to trade up for Pettigrew, which my gut (which ain't worth much, lol) tells me BB may covet strongly)... although there would have to be more to it, too... perhaps their high fourth rounder and a conditional second/third next year (depending upon team finish)?
  19. Ice Cold Bruschi

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    Man I hope Pioli is dumber than they are, I agree with them it would be retarded to trade the 3rd overall for Cassel
  20. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

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    btw: I know it's not a popular postion here.. but as much as I WISH that MC was worth a #3 draft pick in 2009, I don't believe that he is, either. Just my two pennies, though... while I hope that you all are right, I don't believe that you are... AND, thinking like a Chiefs fan, I wouldn't want to see that deal go through. THAT being said... I believe that they will offer a "flip trades" scenario with us (the #3 overall for our #23 overall) but I'm not sure what the add-ons would have to be from each side... I think that Pioli would want the boot from BB and BB would want the boot from Pioli, no? Thus that trade would go down in flames.

    BTW: I don't think that BB WANTS the #3... not unless he knows that he can immead. trade down and pick up extra draft picks for it... too much $$ invested in a top 5 first rounder.

    Now I've made it 3 pennies... so I'll shut up now.
  21. billdog3484

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    i feel like a lot of teams are starting to copy the patriots and are unwilling to make a huge jump up to get into the top 5. maybe a team coveting a player sitting at 7 may jump up, but i feel moving from from about 20 into the top 5 has become less and less prevalent
  22. Rob0729

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    There is a huge difference between trading the #3 pick and the #7 pick. The guaranteed money alone can be $10-15 million less. That is huge. It is hard to trade out of the top 5. Once you get out of the top 5, it gets significantly easier to trade out of the pick.

    Here is a list of all the contracts from the first round and there is a decent drop in guaranteed money when you drop down.

    2008 NFL Draft - First-Round Selections - Contract Terms : Pro Athletes Only
  23. DW Toys

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    Good post.
    DW Toys
  24. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The problem with these arguments (not yours specifically, but all the "top 5 is bad" arguments) is that they really only tell half the story. There's probably not a team in the league that's in need of a quarterback that wouldn't go back and trade for Matt Ryan if they could hop in a time machine. The problem comes up when a bad team goes with a Cedric Benson.

    In other words, while it's true that the salaries for the top players are sky high, the main problem is not really that the top players drafted get so much money. It's more that the top picks have such a huge downside if the team blows the choice. Even more than that, it's when the same horrible teams keep blowing the picks that this becomes a real issue because if good teams just happen to have a down season, good teams will be smart enough to take advantage of the draft position and solidify their team.

    Detroit is a perfect example of this. If Detroit had just taken DeMarcus Ware instead of Mike Williams, Big Ben instead of Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson instead of Charles Rogers, they'd probably be a playoff contender rather than an historical footnote, and they sure as hell wouldn't be complaining about the contracts.
  25. CanadianPat'sFan

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    I agree it is just too costly to move up into the top 10. Look at the Jaguars last year they traded their first-round pick (No. 26 overall), two third-round picks and a fourth-round pick with Baltimore for the No. 8 pick, which they used on Florida DE Derrick Harvey. The funny thing was they wanted Groves badly and he fell to them at the end of the second round. I really think that in this draft to have a pick from 15 to 25 is a great spot. I really like picks 18-20, all NFC teams who need a QB, combine that with a compensatory pick in 2010 and pull the trigger.
  26. salvi20

    salvi20 Rookie

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    No way the Chiefs give up the 3rd pick this coming year for Matt Cassel. Maybe a second pick or a third pick along with Larry Johnson. Johnson has made it clear that he wants out and everyone know that the Patriots need some help at the rb spot. The Patriots will need to run a little more to start the season with Tom Brady coming back from his knee injury. Maybe Johnson could do with his career what Randy Moss did when he came over from the Oakland Raiders. Go Chiefs!
  27. JoePats

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    You can keep Larry Johnson thanks.
  28. GroganCountry

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    Even Larry Johnson thinks Matt Cassel is nothing to spit at.

    Pass on that ridiculous deal.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2009
  29. DW Toys

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    How does this sound Mr. Chiefs fan? A blockbuster IMO. Trade Cassel to K.C. along with Maroney and TE Dave Thomas, for an exchange of picks in round one (our #23 for K.C.'s first round #3 pick), your second round pick at #34 and we get LJ who wants out and Gonzales (a decent CAP with three years remaining).

    K.C. gets their QB. They move Gonzales who they wanted a third rounder for last fall and LJ wants out of town. Worse case is we trade LJ for picks. The Chiefs get a young core that Pioli knows and drafted (Maroney is from that area). Now Pioli also gets to keep a first round pick for an OL stud. Plus he has CAP room to spend.

    So at the end of the day, yes I would take that #3 first rounder. The Pats would find a trading partner for that choice.

    I'd take a flyer on LJ. Some here hated the Moss trade.
    DW Toys
  30. MassPats38

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    LJ may want out but it's the owner who's at the end of his rope trying to deal with all of his off field issues. The fact is Johnson was used heavily in KC (losts of wear on those tires), is hitting 30 (a critical age for running backs - see Shaun Alexander), has played in an average of 10 games per season his past two years, and has become Pacman junior with his random off field anger issues. Not a huge up side at this point in his career.
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