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Carlos Dunlap

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mayoclinic, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have to say, I was very impressed with Carlos Dunlap in the Sugar Bowl last night. Makes you wonder if the Alabama game might have been closer if he had played.

    BB gave some rare praise to Mario Williams this week in an interview. He really seems to gush about guys like Williams and Julius Peppers - 6'6" guys with the size (270-290 lbs.) and athleticism to do rare things for defensive linemen. It makes me wonder whether, if Dunlap declares and falls to the late 1st round, the Pats would take him and use him at either 4-3 DE or at the elephant. It's hard to imagine getting a guy with his talent late in the 1st round, and he could still go top 15, but it's a least a possibility right now.

    What do people think:

    1. Would Dunlap, playing around 270 lbs. rather than 290, be able to play the Willie McGinest elephant role for the Pats? How good could he be in that role vs. as a pure 4-3 DE?

    2. Is Dunlap suited to the 5-technique?

    3. Do you see BB being interested in Dunlap if he falls, given his reputation for inconsistency and his recent DUI?
  2. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    The Patriots only want players who's first priority is football. Given what we know right now I'd have to say he's off the board unless Meyer if able to convince BB he's a good kid who only cares about football but screwed up. Obviously people, especially in their early 20's, make mistakes and deserve second chances but that can cost you millions in this case.
  3. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    Good question!

    I was very impressed with him and think that they would have been playing in a different bowl game if he dressed for the Championship game.

    I swung my opinion on him a few time during that game kinda bouncing around between option 1 and 2. He is right on the line between bulking up 15 to 20 lbs to be a great replacement for Seymour or getting a little quicker and moving to AD's role as he is clearly on the outs this season and is getting older.

    I was very impressed with his strength and ability to extend his arms and bull rush OL on many occasions. He was able to push the pocket many times forcing Pike to role out where he just did not seem comfortable. I also saw him many times making plays down field which shows hustle to the ball and ability to play in space and take a good angle to the ball. I found he was reading the OL's blocks well and for a guy 6'6 played with great pad level which surprised me. I guess my final opinion would be to give him a shot at the elephant position as he has already showed his great DL skills playing almost all down linemen positions over his career.

    His off field issues I will not get into as only BB opinion matters I can only comment on what I saw on the field.
  4. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Most guys get bigger as they mature. I don't see him in the elephant role. But, he looks to have the physique reqired to play de in a 3-4. He hasn't been asked to do it. So, We can't say with certainty he can. But, if he's on the board at 32. He'd be hard to pass up.
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I personally see Dunlap as much better suited to the elephant kind of role than the 5-technique. The 5-technique is really a blue collar kind of job with a lot of dirty work, and Dunlap is best when he can use his rare athletic skills in pursuit, rushing, and playing in space. I see someone like Cameron Heyward being a much better 5 technique prospect than Dunlap, even though they are just about the same size.

    I think Dunlap would be a terrific elephant at 270 lbs. I do question whether he can play long term at that weight, and your comment about players getting bigger is a fair one.
  6. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I have done many Florida games this year and I think Dunlap weighs about 270-275 lbs. I think he will run in the 4.6 range. I see him as a great 3-4 OLB with the ability to set the edge on running plays and provide pressure rushing the passer. He will need to learn coverage. He is the best candidate I see in this draft to replace Willie.

    However I am deeply concerned about his character issues and I am not sure he can make it to BB's draft board after the DUI, because BB only wants guys that live and breath football and clearly football is NOT a Dunlap priority if he is getting drunk before a huge game.
  7. Sciz

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    Physically, absolutely I'd take him. As for the off-the-field issues, I'll trust BB to have a good talk with Urban Meyer and find out everything he needs to know.
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You want to use a first round draft choice for a inconsistent tweener, to play a 3-4 OLB or a 34 DE, neither of which he has ever played?

  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not advocating anything regarding Dunlap at the moment. I'm just speculating, and asking questions. The thing which does stand out to me is how BB seems to get excited about guys like Williams and Peppers with his kind of physical ability. Both of those guys have had consistency and motivational issues, and that doesn't seem to stop BB from raving about them. Maybe that's just hype on his part. I'm not sure.

    I do think that there are only a limited number of "blue chip" prospects of interest to the Pats who could be available in this draft, even with a trade up in the 1st round:

    - ILB Rolando McClain - my favorite, but the cost might be too high.
    - CB Joe Haden - might cost similar to McClain, and CB isn't as much of a priority if we re-sign or replace Leigh Bodden.
    - DE Cameron Heyward - I'd jump at him in the 1st round if he were available, but he may not declare, and will likely go top 20 if he does.
    - DT Terrance Cody - a blue chip 3-4 NT has to get consideration. Even if we sign Wilfork, we could put him at DE and put Cody in the middle.
    - RB CJ Spiller. His upside is Chris Johnson. But his downside is a 3rd down player and return specialist.
    - Dunlap. His physical upside is tremendous. But, as you say, there are issues about consistency, motor, dedication, and position change.

    Again, I'm not advocating Dunlap in the 1st, even if he slips. But he's enough of a talent that I think he deserves serious consideration, because I think BB might see past his issues on account of his talent. He does remind me a lot of McGinest, they way he moves for a guy his size. As I recall, Lawrence Taylor had a lot of off-field issues and required considerable management, but the results were well worth the effort.
  10. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    i really like dunlap's athleticism and raw ability but to spend a first round pick on a developmental olb who has questions about his work ethic and desire is risky. i'd think its more likely that we go for his teammate cunningham in the 3rd round like we did with crable and mckenzie.
  11. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    I agree 100%, all we can do now is watch them play and try to project the players. It's too early to get much else in.

    Although another poster wrote that a front seven on Warren - Cody and Wilfork with Dunlap in the elephant role and Guyton and Mayo inside and Thomas/TBC on the opposite side of Dunlap could be the best front seven we have had since the mid 2000's.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would agree with that, though I'm not sure how we would get both Cody and Dunlap, unless one falls to our 1st pick in the 2nd round.

    A draft of Dunlap, Cody, along with an OG and a developmental DE/OLB such as Austen Lane, would be sensational.
  13. skinnydog

    skinnydog Rookie

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    What is the elephant position that McGinest played? I Always thought of him as a 3-4 OL, but one who played with his hand on the ground a lot
  14. WelshPat

    WelshPat Rookie

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    Urgh i am not a huge Dunlap fan, I think he's one of those guys who will play great on the national stage but won't be up for a quiet 1pm kick off game against some average team.

    Peppers has this problem too. He looked a different player sunday night against the Vikings than he did playing here. The question is can he dominate like Peppers can? He certainly has the physical ability. I think the interviews, stuff like that will be important for him. His combine won't mean a whole lot, everyone knows he is going to look amazing there.

    Just to add, i think if he came here where we have a coach that will instill discipline and command respect i like his chances a lot more. The locker room would help. If he went to a team that has the likes of Jim Mora jr, Brad Clueless etc then i really wouldnt like his chances.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  15. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

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    Not that I'm implying that they're the same player, but I remember hearing similar complaints about Orakpo last year. He takes plays off, etc. With that said, I have to wonder what picks we'll have in this draft. Belichick was going to trade Wilfork initially, so it's not crazy to think we could have another pick in the first round. We do need to fill a lot of holes, and it's possible that Belichick will look to 'cash in' on another one of our guys to move toward the future.
  16. BlackFrancis

    BlackFrancis Rookie

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    There is a rather massive difference between Mario Williams, Peppers and Dunlap. The first two were massively productive at North Carolina, especially in their final seasons. Carlos Dunlap made 34 tackles this past season to go along with nine sacks. Now, the SEC is certainly a better breed of animal than the ACC when you are talking about football but Dunlap just cannot compare with Williams and Peppers when it comes to productivity.

    Carlos Dunlap has excellent measurables and he is very projectable as a pro football player but he is not the kind of guy you want to risk a first round pick on.
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Williams went #1 and Peppers #2. I'm discussing a scenario where Dunlap slips to 24 because of inconsistency and off-field issues. There's a world of difference in terms of the money and risk for a pick at #24 vs. a pick at #1 or #2.
  18. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The other thing you could do with that kind of lineup is play a "big 4-3" kind of like what Baltimore had in 2000 with Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa - put Wilfork and Cody inside, Dunlap and another DE (Warren, Wright, Green, Burgess or Banta-Cain would all be possibilities) outside, and have McKenzie, Mayo and Guyton at LB flying around cleaning up after them.
  19. BlackFrancis

    BlackFrancis Rookie

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    That is a very good point. With that acknowledged, though, there is a huge risk involved when picking guys based on projections, rather than proven production. The Patriots are definitely deep enough to take chances but I feel there are going to be some surer players, linebackers especially, available for their first round selection. I'd take Brandon Graham in the first before I'd take a chance on Dunlap, and I'm not especially keen on the idea of LB conversion projects in the first round.
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wouldn't take Graham, personally. Great player, but a 4-3 DE without the height or the hips and ability to play in space.

    I understand the risk involved with Dunlap. I have no idea whether he'll be on BB's board. But I'm not sure I see a "sure thing" available at the OLB position.
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