Cameragate website is up!!! Spreading the truth with fact

[Fixit]

"The only thing he can't do is use a video camera."

I posted a comment correcting him, that using a video camera is specifically ALLOWED by the NFL - its the simple location of the camera and I cite the Dolphins use of taped offensive signals as additional proof (if reading the rule doesn't quite do it for others)

I think the Mangini/Jets thing is a better example. In Miami's case, they purchased a film, whereas Mangini admitted to taping every game, and the league said that's kosher.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...

The first rule of holes...if you are in one, stop digging. Any effort to be aggressive in defending themselves against unfair opinion would have an adverse effect. You make a clear statement, say you are sorry, move on and shut up. Emotions will run their course unless you keep them alive by trying to invalidate them.

When faced with false accusations, you issue a clear denial, move on and shut up. Accusations need facts to stay alive. When the facts fail to appear (or appear counter to the accusation), you stay clean firmly entrenched on the high road....

I really couldn't disagree more. Rule One of Crisis Management in the media in a polarized and politicized process is never to let a false accusation go unchallenged, even overnight, and certainly not for months on end. Rules Two thru Nine are "See Rule One."

 

[signbabybrady]

I really couldn't disagree more. Rule One of Crisis Management in the media in a polarized and politicized process is never to let a false accusation go unchallenged, even overnight, and certainly not for months on end. Rules Two thru Nine are "See Rule One."

You think maybe that Goodell told the patriots not to go on the offensive to defend themselves as it would make the NFL look bad. And maybe they had no choice but to keep their mouth shut.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Boy, some of you are stupid.

The initial stupidity died down. Remember running up the score stories? It wasn't camera stories in October.

Then when this second wave hit it was in the off season. No games=no leverage. It is that simple. Why can't the "Kraft's took the wrong approach" fools note it worked until Tomasse?

there's no need for the namecalling. there are a lot of intelligent folks who've loved this franchise for a long time debating some difficult issues and openly listening to differing points of view out here. but, we're not out here to take crap. if you have a point to make, make it decently and intelligenly. otherwise, get lost.

 

[Jimke]

You think maybe that Goodell told the patriots not to go on the offensive to defend themselves as it would make the NFL look bad. And maybe they had no choice but to keep their mouth shut.

I think this is exactly what Goodell ordered the Patriots to do.

If they opened their mouths, they would have received further

punishment. If any further punishment comes their way, all

bets might be off.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Long time reader also, and I remember when PFVA first began this project. I'm so glad to see it's finally come to fruition-awesome job by everybody
I hope Bob Kraft gets ahold of this (I know,I know lol) but it would be great for him and the entire organization to see how dedicated, committed,intelligent, informed, and supportive their fanbase really is.:rocker:

 

[Fixit]

I just posted this (no, I couldn't help myself):

Here's another example:

Eric Mangini admitted that he's taped every game from the endzones. There are direct quotes attributed to him saying as much.

A video camera in the endzone violates the same rule that the Pats got punished for, but for some reason the league said what Mangini did was okay because he got "permission" from the opposition. My take is that the NFL let that one slide because they want this particular can of worms resealed. Unlike the average football fan, the NFL knows that not only does every team videotape signals (which is ALLOWED), but they also videotape from places where they're not supposed to be (which isn't allowed, but used to be ignored or brokered by a handshake deal).

Bruce: "Goodell reiterated the rule at the beginning of the season to allow for no misinterpretation." That's a great point, except for this: it was a memo from Ray Anderson, not Goodell; it was issued at the beginning of the 2006 season, not 2007; and the league itself has shown that the rule is open to interpretation. Just regurgitating what the sports media says is exactly the problem here.

Brian...they went 18-0 without taping squat...what more do you want? The fact that they lost the SB is evidence that taping was their entire gameplan? Seriously?

Belichick got pinched for where he was taping from, not what he was taping. That is 100% fact. The Commissioner himself stated that there was no competitive advantage gained, because he knows that the other 31 teams tape signals.

For all of the simpletons saying, "Nope! It's cheating! Cheaters! ASTERISKS!!!"...you really need to read both the rule and the memo. And maybe think a little bit.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

You think maybe that Goodell told the patriots not to go on the offensive to defend themselves as it would make the NFL look bad. And maybe they had no choice but to keep their mouth shut.

if they agreed to something like that, it would have been like the US agreeing to unilaterally disarm during the Cold War or someone agreeing to walk into a knife fight with a cap gun. if they did, they made a huge error of judgment.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

You think maybe that Goodell told the patriots not to go on the offensive to defend themselves as it would make the NFL look bad. And maybe they had no choice but to keep their mouth shut.

i think that agreeing to those conditions would have been a huge error of judgment given the media environment.

 

[bbabin]

Who says they had a choice to agree or disagree. They sure didn't agree beforehand on the consequences of breaking a rule about the location of video equipment.

This brings up another question...

How could an NFL team show a complaint against a league decision? Does anyone know the answer to this?

 

[The_Bloke]

http://fansforaccuratemedia.com/

We have our own website here - dedicated to truth and fact.


Please feel free to spread the word of our own website far and wide!!

Please send along any add ons that you would like to see be made a part of the website as we are looking for anything based in truth and fact.


Many thanks to Patsfansinva (he wrote most of it - the man has skills) and wahwho (he set up the website)

My congratulations to all who put this together. It is time that the other side be heard.

Kudos to all. Well Done.

 

[rockthecasbah]

Great site! Good job.

On a serious note, though: you/we should put together a FAQ to sum everything up.

For example:

Q: "Is taping signals against league rules?"
A: "No, league rules prohibit blahblahblah..."

I think the material that you've presented is awesome, but there has to be a simple summary, as well. Let's face it: this is aimed at sportswriters and people who think the Pats cheated in the first place, not MENSA candidates.

Agreed. A simple FAQ, quickly hitting at all the main points would serve the site well, I think.

 

[signbabybrady]

The media is already ignoring the facts of Goodells press conference so it looks like the pres sconference needs to be added and it looks like this Frame will be needed at least for a little while. but we will see.....maybe some of these media guys will realize their contrarian opinions and stop. Not likely but we will see.

 

[Metaphors]

I really couldn't disagree more. Rule One of Crisis Management in the media in a polarized and politicized process is never to let a false accusation go unchallenged, even overnight, and certainly not for months on end. Rules Two thru Nine are "See Rule One."

Read my post again. You are talking about false accusations which I said should be clearly challenged.

The point is that most of this situation is about opinion (which I underlined and bolded in my original post). The Pats are being accused of cheating...which is an opinion. They broke a rule. Urlacher broke a rule when he wore a Vitamin Water hat during a SB press conference. Anyone accusing Urlacher of cheating? The leap from rule breaking to cheating is subjective and any challenging of that would result in looking guilting and just prolonging the agony.

 

[neuronet]

Great site! Also, I agree with the FAQ idea.

I hope it is taken in the spirit of constructive criticism if I make a couple of comments.
1. Too much text on the home page. The most hard-hitting claims, those that directly confront media and other biases should be there succinctly.

2. Related to 1, there is just way too much emphasis on the date in which the memo was sent. Who cares if it was a month before or a year before? This comes off as a cavil, a red herring at best. It comes off as disingenuous to focus on such a little thing as the day the memo was sent, a Clinton-esque deflection. I think it is a mistake to have such a weak point be a major emphasis.

I understand how the point about the timeline has been used by some in the media, but really it is a minor point and doesn't deserve the emphasis it received. When I talk to friends they never mention that timeline, though the media does tend to mention it in longer pieces on the subject.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

neuro, thanks for the input. I am thinking if John is willing, and if tomorrow brings new emphasis on this claptrap, we should organize the best quotes on a front page, which I'll have to figure out in the next few days, the weekend at the latest. The unfortunate part of a group of volunteers is that the energy level just can't allow for real-time response. Spinning the "sub-pages" off a new index page with the more provocative quotes up front might reduce the weight of something someone perceives as tangential -- so, if you don't care about the memo, the Jets/Dolphins actions after the memo, and the Pats actions AFTER the Jets/Dolphins actions, you can skip that page.

Also: I'd welcome a collection of what each "player" has said. PM me here if you are willing to do the quote collections. Just give me the quote, the souce (person), and a source (website) where it originally came from (or which quotes and sources the original, such as an article sourcing a radio broadcast.)

I'd also like to do something with the "relevant rules and regulations" info in the thread next door. And more source docs, if they exist.

This is the call for contributions... remember, we're trying VERY hard to tell the story so far as facts can, and only to QUESTION others' assumptions, rather than speculate ourselves. We don't always succeed LOL... but that's where this site/this group is coming from: we want the press questioning their knee-jerk coverage, more than we want to counter that thin speculative fabric with speculation of our own.

What I need most of all is faithfully repeated/reported info with the source link for every quote or story... and a general idea of the point the quote supports.

Q/A has been kicked around as well.

I would recommend that we all watch how Specter handles his business tomorrow... I would expect we'll still have work to do. If we don't, well, worse things could happen.

Who's with me?



PFnV

 

[wahwho]

I am thinking if John is willing

I'll put up whatever you send...I'd just remind anybody who wants to contribute that the purpose of the site is not to attack others, much as we might want to, but to clarify the facts around this situation. For instance, while I know Schlereth was being a moron today, I'm not sure calling him on it (beyond maybe a mention of hypocrisy re:Broncos cap, and I'm not so sure about even that) is within the scope of this project.

But I've said all along I'm keeping out of the content side of things, so it's not up to me what goes up...

 

[PatsFanInVa]

FWIW looks like we're on the same page anyway, John.

But then , there is another way to do this: research the various team penalties over the years and list them. We all "know" the biggies, or we think we do --

So does someone want that project?

- Find the fined/draft-pick-screwed teams over the years
- Find sources that report their sins and their fines
- Compile the list

We can give its own page or box it... whatever. Depends what comes of the effort. I think it would add to the site. Great article today, I believe on PFT. Someone posted it here. It pointed out Schlereth's hypocrisy, having won his SB rings on a cap=cheating team.

Anyway, that also might be worth noting.

 

[wdkantro2]

Is it just me, or do all of you care way more about this than anyone else? Why can't we emulate our coach and our team and just move on and look ahead to next year?

 

[hambone1818]

Is it just me, or do all of you care way more about this than anyone else? Why can't we emulate our coach and our team and just move on and look ahead to next year?

I haven't contributed to the website so can't comment directly from that end. However, as a fan who has been effected by the 'spygate' proceedings and believes it to be an important issue that should be countered in any way possible, I might as well give an answer.

I've said this previously in numerous other locations, but I believe the biggest penalty, from an historic perspective, has nothing to do with draft picks and fines and everything to do with legacies and perceptions. In thirty years when I want to read about this dynasty, this fantastic collection of football players and football minds, I don't want to have to skip half the book because it's devoted to the witchhunt that is cameragate. I love the history of the game, I love reading about the great players and teams from the past. I absolutely do not want the Patriots legacy over this decade of dominance to be slaughtered because the media decided that Belichick is the devil. As I've said in the past, if this were the Bengals or Cardinals we would have seen a fine and a mid-to-late round pick and very little fanfare. I think the bias is despicable, the outrage is ridiculous and the media's reaction deplorable and defamatory.

I want to remember Brady, Brown, McGinest, Belichick, Law, Bruschi, Harrison and all the rest as they are: champions; and I don't want that memory destroyed, torn apart because of a friggin' rules infraction.