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Cameragate website is up!!! Spreading the truth with fact


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THANK YOU, GUYS.
I was afraid Patriot Reign would have us all 'Picketing in Bristol' before summer camp starts!
 
All I want to say is THANK YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! I had hoped that I could have helped with it...my heart was there..but other circumstances in my life took hold...and I feel bad about that..BUT that it is up and so so GREAT A SITE!!! THAT IS just tremendous!!! GREAT WORK!!!!!!
 
good job. it's been a long time coming. Add me to the list that thinks Kraft should be hitting back.

I wish there was a section that was editable by us, that we could add references to inaccurate media coverage and call those sloppy "reporters" out, Watch-Dog style. But, have someone moderate it closely so that nothing inappropraite gets posted. Or maybe we just create a sticky thread here so that the community can participate. then, the Frame folks can cherry pick that thread for information to add to the frame site.


I love the site and how it establishes a baseline for truth, It just irks me that these sports writers can write any old inaccuracy they like. So I'd like to start witch hunting the witch hunters. those f'ing pr!cks!!!
 
That is what I don't understand .. The Krafts just sit there and take.. "Thank you sir, may I have another" .. They are gluttens for punishment to their franchise ..


I know that the Krafts, specifically Jonathan, are closely connected to Harvard Business School. Unfortunately, when this mess is finished, I suspect that the B-School might want to use the Patriots' handling of the entire affair as a case study in disastrous crisis management
 
Well, I understand why they just sat there during the season. Then the Walsh thing came out before the Super Bowl, so the entire offseason has been waiting for that to come out.

However, once we get past tomorrow, and theoretically all this stuff is over, then they are finally in position to fire away....

I have no idea why they "just sat there during the season." I have no idea why they decided to wait "the entire offseason for...[the Walsh thing] to come out."

The time to "fire away" (or at least start to build an aggressive crisis-management operation) was the week after the Jets game (and I said so out here that week).

Over the last eight months, the Patriots, with the exception of a couple of media events, have allowed this story to grow, and indeed mutate, unchecked.

As a result, unchallenged lies easily became facts, unchallenged half-truths easily became truth. There was no focused or concerted effort at damage control by the Patriots. If this were a company with Shareholders, they would be getting sued for mismanagement. Now all they can do is try to stuff the genie back into the proverbial bottle.
 
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VERY impressive. I think it would be very hard for anyone to make logical arguments against what that website says. You did a very good job staying away from "Not fair, Patriots rule"/"Beli-cheat sucks" and focused on the facts available. Awesome!

I also think that this should be sent to major media outlets. It would be interesting to hear the responses you get from people in sportswriting.

the problem is that this stopped being about "logic" sometime in October, when the Patriots should have put up a website like this themselves, as some of us suggested back then.
 
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Wow guys, fantastic work. For the first time since this whole crapfest started, I'm starting to have some hope that there's an end to it in sight, and this page could play a major part in it.
 
the problem is that this stopped being about "logic" sometime in October,

Exactly. People reached conclusions following a flawed stream of logic:

Filming signals prohibited on sidelines = Rule
Pats filmed signal from sidelines = Broken rule
Broken rule = Cheating
Cheating = Illegitimate victories
Illegitimate victories = Illegitimate championships

Without the "championships" part, this isn't a big deal. The problem is that nobody stops at each point in the chain of logic to ask the most basic of questions:

Why is filming signals prohibited? Just from the sidelines?
Why would the Pats do this? Did they hide the fact they were doing it?
What advantage did the Pats get? Why didn't NFL security try to stop them?
Is there any anecdotal evidence that the taped signals altered game results?

When you dig just a little bit, the situation becomes fairly clear. Boring, but clear. That digging takes effort. Why spend that effort when the result is an inferior "product" to sell to the public? Better to polish up the raw "product" and offer it up with lots of emotion and little depth.

The Pats deserved a punishment for conducting their business in a way (after being warned) that allowed the integrity of the league to be brought into question. That taping act itself is a non-issue.

when the Patriots should have put up a website like this themselves, as some of us suggested back then.

The first rule of holes...if you are in one, stop digging. Any effort to be aggressive in defending themselves against unfair opinion would have an adverse effect. You make a clear statement, say you are sorry, move on and shut up. Emotions will run their course unless you keep them alive by trying to invalidate them.

When faced with false accusations, you issue a clear denial, move on and shut up. Accusations need facts to stay alive. When the facts fail to appear (or appear counter to the accusation), you stay clean firmly entrenched on the high road.

Belichick should have avoided the situation by following a rule, the intent of which he is sure to have understood. Goodell should have avoided the situation by having NFL security not allow any unauthorized camera gear on the field. Mangini should have avoided the situation by having the camera guy ejected before he shot a second of film. They all failed...and their failure resulted in the unavoidable events that followed.

The legacy will remain intact because people in the future will score on this story by going in depth with it. Logic, facts, motivations, intent, money, etc. All will be fleshed out when there is money to be made through the effort. That can't happen until there is no more money to be made from the emotion of the current situation. Until then, just keep pumping out the lemonade from all the lemons being dumped on the Pats.
 
Long time reader... First time poster...

First off, solid work with the FRAMe website. Its refreshing to hear an objectively based argument in support of the Pats in this situation as having been a victim (to a certain extent) of a national media obsessed with the sensational. A lot of these facts have gotten lost in the shuffle since last September. I know it is tough at times to defend the Pats when discussing these matters with friends and colleagues that aren't quite as pro-Pats or at worse have an equally deep rooted distaste for the success of the Pats without letting our own affinity for this organization get in the way at times. Kudos, gentlemen, you managed to do just that.

One thing I have often thought would be at the very least an interesting read and could be a solid addition to your site, would be a page that listed out quotations from noteworthy figures both in support and in opposition to the Pats' practices... I'm referring obviously to former coaches like Jimmy Johnson who seems to be the most clean cut example of a public voice that called it as it truly is... People have been doing this since the early years of the game... That doesn't make it right that the Pats were doing it... But do we really need to kick them while they are down?

I'm pretty sure Johnson was not the only one to offer up a glimpse into the fact that this type of act has traditionally almost been accepted as a part of NFL culture... An additional example of the endless chess matches that teams and organizations engage in... Trying to outwit, out-think, and ultimately out-execute each other on the field.

I think Belichick and co. have remained quiet in the wake of the initial media onslaught largely due to an unparalleled respect for the history of the game... He was caught, he admitted wrong doing and tried to turn the page. And tear apart every other coach and team in his way in so doing. He was not going to whine to the press and throw so many of the games storied franchises and coaches under the bus simply because they paved the way... Belichick tried to take this in stride as best as he could, and how was he rewarded?

I think its comical that so many figures that have written chapters in the games history (e.g.- Don Shula) and current figures (Dungy) were so ready to step on Belichick's throat while he was down- all the while knowing full well that this type of thing was more of a variation of a commonplace activity than the total outrage as it was made to seem.

Belichick has been around the game of football his entire life, and began his ascent to the highest ranks in the history of the profession in 1975 at the tender age of 23... The guy has heard and seen it all, and learned and fine tuned his tactics from the biggest names and sharpest brains in the game's history...

It always amazes me that so few coaches and historical figures in the game have been willing (as Johnson has) to come to his defense.... Mangina be damned, I think that a database of reactions might be a solid addition to the already spectacular page you gentleman have put together...

No more fodder for the anti-Pats agenda! Keep fueling the fire with facts, because at the end of the day there can only be one organization who continues to do things the most intelligently, remain the most classy, uphold the highest standards, and remain the single most successful in the league... and there is no question that that is our New England Patriots... and my number one man-crush Bill Belichick.

Sorry for the rant fellas... and thanks for your hard work.
 
Long time reader... First time poster...

First off, solid work with the FRAMe website. Its refreshing to hear an objectively based argument in support of the Pats in this situation as having been a victim (to a certain extent) of a national media obsessed with the sensational. A lot of these facts have gotten lost in the shuffle since last September. I know it is tough at times to defend the Pats when discussing these matters with friends and colleagues that aren't quite as pro-Pats or at worse have an equally deep rooted distaste for the success of the Pats without letting our own affinity for this organization get in the way at times. Kudos, gentlemen, you managed to do just that.

One thing I have often thought would be at the very least an interesting read and could be a solid addition to your site, would be a page that listed out quotations from noteworthy figures both in support and in opposition to the Pats' practices... I'm referring obviously to former coaches like Jimmy Johnson who seems to be the most clean cut example of a public voice that called it as it truly is... People have been doing this since the early years of the game... That doesn't make it right that the Pats were doing it... But do we really need to kick them while they are down?

I'm pretty sure Johnson was not the only one to offer up a glimpse into the fact that this type of act has traditionally almost been accepted as a part of NFL culture... An additional example of the endless chess matches that teams and organizations engage in... Trying to outwit, out-think, and ultimately out-execute each other on the field.

I think Belichick and co. have remained quiet in the wake of the initial media onslaught largely due to an unparalleled respect for the history of the game... He was caught, he admitted wrong doing and tried to turn the page. And tear apart every other coach and team in his way in so doing. He was not going to whine to the press and throw so many of the games storied franchises and coaches under the bus simply because they paved the way... Belichick tried to take this in stride as best as he could, and how was he rewarded?

I think its comical that so many figures that have written chapters in the games history (e.g.- Don Shula) and current figures (Dungy) were so ready to step on Belichick's throat while he was down- all the while knowing full well that this type of thing was more of a variation of a commonplace activity than the total outrage as it was made to seem.

Belichick has been around the game of football his entire life, and began his ascent to the highest ranks in the history of the profession in 1975 at the tender age of 23... The guy has heard and seen it all, and learned and fine tuned his tactics from the biggest names and sharpest brains in the game's history...

It always amazes me that so few coaches and historical figures in the game have been willing (as Johnson has) to come to his defense.... Mangina be damned, I think that a database of reactions might be a solid addition to the already spectacular page you gentleman have put together...

No more fodder for the anti-Pats agenda! Keep fueling the fire with facts, because at the end of the day there can only be one organization who continues to do things the most intelligently, remain the most classy, uphold the highest standards, and remain the single most successful in the league... and there is no question that that is our New England Patriots... and my number one man-crush Bill Belichick.

Sorry for the rant fellas... and thanks for your hard work.

Great first post.......
 
Nice work FGS.....Writing and creating a website like that puts my mind at ease. Knowing the facts are out there. You can't force a horse to drink but you can take him to the water.

I know this has been sent to most of the media around here....

I challenge all of the PATSFANS members from around the country to send this to all media whom they have read some factless story about spygate.

If the horse won't drink, drown him guddurnit!:D
 
Great job guys, i like the stuff. Might I suggest getting rid of the "Gate" part all together. While cameragate is much better than spygate, it still draws images of scandal. Furthermore, Watergate is the name of the hotel that was broken into. Gate has nothing to do with the patriots, other than the fact that some idiot thought he was clever when he came up with it. One of the major themes of Watergate was cover up, and that is something the pats are not guilty of.
 
I know that the Krafts, specifically Jonathan, are closely connected to Harvard Business School. Unfortunately, when this mess is finished, I suspect that the B-School might want to use the Patriots' handling of the entire affair as a case study in disastrous crisis management

Boy, some of you are stupid.

The initial stupidity died down. Remember running up the score stories? It wasn't camera stories in October.

Then when this second wave hit it was in the off season. No games=no leverage. It is that simple. Why can't the "Kraft's took the wrong approach" fools note it worked until Tomasse?
 
LOL first of all, Pony is being self-deprecating and gracious... I am hoping the "high brow" tone doesn't occur too often in the piece... but I'll take the gracious Mr. Express' excuse and keep qui bene unless everybody has the same reaction. Again, it IS true that this site is aimed to the media whores. Secondly I am pretty sure Pony is also the person who set me straight on several of the points these fact sheets cover.

Frank (Fgssand) has had amazing contacts throughout this process, bringing to life the actual contact with the people who should be reading this, and "making rain" in terms of knowing the right contacts and the right channels, and using them. He'll also be the public face/voice of the effort.

A tremendous thanks should also go to Wahwho, AKA John. He took on the hosting when my web-unsavvy mind hit the old brick wall, worked with us to troubleshoot a couple of obstacles, and got the actual webby work done quickly, attractively, and accurately.

Thanks too to all who worked on a "fact combing" thread here on PatsFans that served as our raw material. (PS, the Goodell interview from the Chargers game was in that thread or it was sent to me separately... I will have another look and possibly PM the earlier poster urging that we use it.)

I am still looking over the site too... guys please keep the suggestions coming. It's quite possible we'll have a whole other course to pursue tomorrow evening... but for now I think this is a useful first step to have public.

Everybody who has done work to make these few pages come to light did it on their own time, and I thank every one of you guys. (And of course, Ian, without whose work I would be in the hinterlands connecting every few weeks with another Pats fan, rather than daily.)

PFnV

A big THANK YOU to PatsFanInVa, fggsand, Wahwho and anyone else who contributed to putting this information and website into action....with ACTION being the key word.

I agree, let's share this with anyone & everyone who needs the education. And let's keep it going as long as the media campaign against OUR Patriots continues.

At a time when I feel like telling everyone to FOff, you come up with the right way to react...the sensible and educated way to react.

I truly appreciate all your efforts!
 
Quick note to all:

I don't know when John can update the page, but I have updated the fact sheet "That's Football" to include more info on the Jimmy Johnson interview, including quotes.

Thanks to Pony and others who sent me the request and especially the transcript (like I always say, writers are lazy... make the info easy to use and they use it! LOL)

PFnV
 
what a fantastic job and website. we truly do have great fans.
 
Quick note to all:

I don't know when John can update the page, but I have updated the fact sheet "That's Football" to include more info on the Jimmy Johnson interview, including quotes.

It's up now.
 
This is great, thanks for taking the time to do this
 
Here's a Newsday article that some might want to post a comment on

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spwally135684202may13,0,5361413.column

The columnist actually does a pretty fair job trying to be balanced, but makes a major mistake.

While he makes the good point that signal stealing is not illegal, he then goes on to say this:

"The only thing he can't do is use a video camera."

I posted a comment correcting him, that using a video camera is specifically ALLOWED by the NFL - its the simple location of the camera and I cite the Dolphins use of taped offensive signals as additional proof (if reading the rule doesn't quite do it for others)

I almost hate to come down on this guy in particular, but here's another source of "information" for the masses who writes a story about a rule that he hasn't even bothered reading.
 
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