Breer on Julius Peppers

[D-Money]

Am i the only one that thinks Wilfork looks out of shape at times?Granted he is a DT and massive.

 

[furley]

Admittedly, I find it intriguing to see what it'll be like to have a Randy Moss-esque talent on defense. I just wonder if he'll play hard all the time. Sometimes, perception can be wrong, and sometimes it can be correct. The perception of Moss and Peppers is still negative in the national media. But, New England was able to acquire Moss for cheap and little risk. Conversely, I don't like that you aren't afforded that same luxury with Peppers.

So, basically, you either attempt to sign him or another team will sign him who might not be as concern about the risk of overpaying him like Washington.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Then why the lust for a NT who can't rush the passer and can't play half the downs? The Patriots - unfortunately - traded their best all-around defensive player last season to the Raiders, a guy like Peppers would be closer to a complete player than Wilfork.

And I'm not convinced Peppers would be a liability against the run here (or that he even is in Carolina, since their D has been so successful with him). If he's playing as a 3-4 OLB, he certainly has the size & length & athleticism to set the edge, no question. If it's a matter of desire/technique, whatever, it could be corrected. He has the physical ability to do it. Whereas a guy like Tully Banta Cain does not have that physical ability and never will, and was a liability against the run last season.

It isn't so cut and dried. But you are right that Vince isn't able to apply pressure consistently and Julius can't play the run like Seymour. OTOH, Tully does play the run and he plays it well. I don't think he lines up on the strong side, but 40% of his snaps are run plays and he was 2nd on the team in Stops. RBs don't get tackled with minimal gain by themselves.

The only 3 three down players were Meriweather, Bodden, Guyton, and Mayo. The rest were all situational. It was like pee-wee football. Yay, everyone gets to play! Yes, I think we need some 3 down talent up front. Lets start by adding Peppers.

 

[RobertWeathers]

in 2003 the run defense was ranked 3rd. in 2004. 6th. 2006. 5th. 2007 10th.


haveing a good run D means much more 3rd and longs and much more sacks. and like you said haveing ty law. and samuel. as the #1 CB's in dose years is a lot better then haveing o'neal and bodden as the #1's the last 2 years.

I'd continue the debate but I simply have no idea what you are arguing.

What is "dose"?

 

[RobertWeathers]

BB saying that sacks are overrated has no bearing on the discussion, aside from showing that BB is smart. You are now starting to add things in (coverage ability) when the discussion started with pass rusher. Show me that sacks accurately depict pressure and pressure alone. It´s a fluff stat limited in what it depicts by itself.

No........When you first commented on my post the topic was pass rush. Not pass rushers. I introduced comp % in the discussion way back. There are some sacks that are pressure sacks. There are some sacks that are coverage sacks. As I said, sacks are a high-level indicator of the activity of a defense and it's ability to pressure the Qb. For most teams, I'd be willing to bet that you could graph out the teams with the highest # of sacks # hurries and have that correlate to comp %, passes defensed and perhaps even passes defensed.

3.6 YPC in 05. 08-09 still were not good, even if they were better than 02.

Yea 05 run D was decent. I was thinking about the 05 pass D that stunk. I retract my 05 statement.

You are now moving the goalposts. Adding a couple of fatties PLUS Peppers is different than signing Peppers at the expense of Wilfork. If the overall defense can be improved by signing a group of players at the cost of Wilfork, then absolutely itś the way to go. That was not what I was responding to. I was responding to the notion that all being equal and the only difference being Peppers or Wilfork, Wilfork is more valuable.

All things being equal I'd rather have Peppers. My point is that if the team can't reach a deal with VW, then IMO they need to make a hard push for JP and be forced to play more out of a 4-3 and acquire some 320 lb guys to man the middle. I'm operating under the assumption that the team will not sign both VW and JP- hence the "two fattys" injection into the discussion.

 

[Kontradiction]

Am i the only one that thinks Wilfork looks out of shape at times?Granted he is a DT and massive.

Believe me when I say that Wilfork is probably in better shape than the majority of people posting on this forum.

Admittedly, I find it intriguing to see what it'll be like to have a Randy Moss-esque talent on defense. I just wonder if he'll play hard all the time. Sometimes, perception can be wrong, and sometimes it can be correct. The perception of Moss and Peppers is still negative in the national media. But, New England was able to acquire Moss for cheap and little risk. Conversely, I don't like that you aren't afforded that same luxury with Peppers.

So, basically, you either attempt to sign him or another team will sign him who might not be as concern about the risk of overpaying him like Washington.

Snyder and the Redskins have made some pretty terrible moves over the years, but they wouldn't tie up that much money into one side of the ball... especially when the other side of the ball was so terrible over the past season.

 

[satz]

what this topic is missing is some reality.

as of now our DL is

Pyor , Wright and Ty warren. so that line with 1 second yr player in pyor and a great motor backup in wright are going to be tested big. Mayo and our ILB are going to be in constant pressure from gaurds .

In the above line Peppers will not be asked to set the edge alot as when you can pull a gaurd and tackle to blast the ILB due to smaller weaker line why bother running to the outside.

Jamal went down in SD and there defence went to hell last year , team like that would give alot of him. Kansas city and browns will give us the most value as there are only 2-3 325 plus atheletic guys .Not suprising SF ,Steelers are franchising there NT.If vince is franchised then 3 NT are going to be franchised this year . tell all the 3 teams how they have no clue as NT are easy to find.

One side vince has played hurt and has play full tilt all the time vs Peppers the guy who get called out by the youth in his own team. [John beason called peppers out].

One side vince played hurt making 2.5 million and ofcourse we have see how much can get peppers motivated. 16 million did not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

what this topic is missing is some reality.

as of now our DL is

Pyor , Wright and Ty warren. so that line with 1 second yr player in pyor and a great motor backup in wright are going to be tested big. Mayo and our ILB are going to be in constant pressure from gaurds .

In the above line Peppers will not be asked to set the edge alot as when you can pull a gaurd and tackle to blast the ILB due to smaller weaker line why bother running to the outside.

There is no question that if Peppers comes here and VW walks, the interior D-line will need to be addressed.

Jamal went down in SD and there defence went to hell last year ,

Not true. SDs run D to come around but during the regular season it was adequate. Their pass D was outstanding.

team like that would give alot of him. Kansas city and browns will give us the most value as there are only 2-3 325 plus atheletic guys .Not suprising SF ,Steelers are franchising there NT.If vince is franchised then 3 NT are going to be franchised this year . tell all the 3 teams how they have no clue as NT are easy to find.

One side vince has played hurt and has play full tilt all the time vs Peppers the guy who get called out by the youth in his own team. [John beason called peppers out].

One side vince played hurt making 2.5 million and ofcourse we have see how much can get peppers motivated. 16 million did not.

Peppers slacked this year? Look up his numbers for the past two years. Thats a silly statement.

 

[ausbacker]

I love Patjew's enthusiasm - it's infectious

I've been marveling at Patjew's form for the past month or so Ian.

 

[satz]

Peppers slacked this year? Look up his numbers for the past two years. Thats a silly statement.

John beason is the leader of that defence .He is the man and he has major issues with peppers play. Stats are fine but when your young leader in defence is calling you out it needs to hold some valve, If mayo calls out a player will you trust mayo or look at the stat sheet and argue mayo is an idiot who does not know what he is talking about.
I think john beason right now is better than Mayo .

also, johnathan stewart on offence was also in calling peppers for doggin it and playingwhen he wants.I know he is in offence but the new youth have issues with someone no motivated by 16 million dollars.

 

[carolinatony]

If Peppers comes here he can Dominant a game that most players can only dream....IF he's motived? This would mean Vince would be gone and the middle of the D would need to be upgrated.

If we get a 1st for him we could take Dan Williams for that. We also drafted Ron Brace last year which means BB may have been planning for this.

I guess we'll know in the next few months what direction we are going.

 

[emoney_33]

No........When you first commented on my post the topic was pass rush. Not pass rushers. I introduced comp % in the discussion way back. There are some sacks that are pressure sacks. There are some sacks that are coverage sacks. As I said, sacks are a high-level indicator of the activity of a defense and it's ability to pressure the Qb. For most teams, I'd be willing to bet that you could graph out the teams with the highest # of sacks # hurries and have that correlate to comp %, passes defensed and perhaps even passes defensed.

You´d quickly lose that bet. Once again, sacks are a fluff stat that don´t show you anything about a pass rush.

Top 5 in comp % were 18, 11, 18, 3 and 13 in sacks
Top 5 in sacks were 25, 7, 4, 17 and 16 in comp %

Sacks simply do NOT tell you about a pass rush, no matter how much you want it to.

And on a side note using coverage ability when discussing pass rushing still doesnt make sense.

All things being equal I'd rather have Peppers. My point is that if the team can't reach a deal with VW, then IMO they need to make a hard push for JP and be forced to play more out of a 4-3 and acquire some 320 lb guys to man the middle. I'm operating under the assumption that the team will not sign both VW and JP- hence the "two fattys" injection into the discussion.

To each his own, but ¨all things being equal¨ Wilfork is more valuable to this team. I´m confident he will be re-signed.

 

[Patjew]

I've been marveling at Patjew's form for the past month or so Ian.

Thanks? I've been exercising AND drinking more recently. It's having some weird effects.

 

[Joker]

I've been exercising AND drinking more recently.

been running around buying single malt scotch?

me...I've been sitting around and my GF waters me twice a day...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I've been exercising AND drinking more recently.

been running around buying single malt scotch?

me...I've been sitting around and my GF waters me twice a day...

Gold Fish are good for that.

 

[Patjew]

Gold Fish are good for that.

I prefer vodka in my glass and gold fish in my shoes.

 

[Marqui]

I want Peppers here SO bad

 

[pats63]

Do we really know what BB really going to do???Big Vince wants to get paid...This is the only time he is going to get the big$$$Here we going to go with the Peppers thing,again...Thomas hasn't produce for the big money he is getting.....Peppers might want more than Thomas???

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I prefer vodka in my glass and gold fish in my shoes.

Kinky.



.....

 

[RobertWeathers]

John beason is the leader of that defence .He is the man and he has major issues with peppers play. Stats are fine but when your young leader in defence is calling you out it needs to hold some valve, If mayo calls out a player will you trust mayo or look at the stat sheet and argue mayo is an idiot who does not know what he is talking about.
I think john beason right now is better than Mayo .

also, johnathan stewart on offence was also in calling peppers for doggin it and playingwhen he wants.I know he is in offence but the new youth have issues with someone no motivated by 16 million dollars.

His numbers contradict any notion of "slacking". They may have an agenda vs the guy or a POed that he is hogging up $16m worth of cap dollars. Who knows what kind of ulterior motive that they may have vs Peppers.