Breer on Julius Peppers

[Ian]

Good, then sign them all. This isn't my kids' college fund. TFB is not a young man any more. Sign some beasts, get two more rings, and get the **** out of there.

The end.

I love Patjew's enthusiasm - it's infectious

 

[BradyManny]

I just don't get the amount of lust for a DE/LB conversion project who's weak against the run.

Then why the lust for a NT who can't rush the passer and can't play half the downs? The Patriots - unfortunately - traded their best all-around defensive player last season to the Raiders, a guy like Peppers would be closer to a complete player than Wilfork.

And I'm not convinced Peppers would be a liability against the run here (or that he even is in Carolina, since their D has been so successful with him). If he's playing as a 3-4 OLB, he certainly has the size & length & athleticism to set the edge, no question. If it's a matter of desire/technique, whatever, it could be corrected. He has the physical ability to do it. Whereas a guy like Tully Banta Cain does not have that physical ability and never will, and was a liability against the run last season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Tedy Bruschi made his first Super Bowl at 31.

Tedy had two sacks in the SB his rookie season. . . .

 

[makoute]

This from MMQB tells me that Peppers probably will come a lot cheaper than people think he will:

Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Conrad Dobler, more NFL news - Peter King - SI.com

I could see Peppers as a Patriot and I think he is not going to get the mind-numbing deal people think he is getting. I think teams will be scared off by his age and perceived asking price.
​

Why does it matter for 2011, I thought teams are not going be paying players, or am I wrong on that?

 

[Jackson 2]

Kirwan sees Peppers as a Patriot.

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Peppers to … Patriots?

Landing Peppers will do so much for our draft alone, never mind the impact on our football team. We could draft an Iaputi or a Bulaga at #22 to step right in on the offensive line and we can focus on WR, RB and DE with the 3 2-s.

In my opinion, Pat Kirwan is a very reliable media guy. He doesn't run around blowing smoke, plus he's wired all over the NFL, in general, and he's very friendly with BB, in particular. I've been skeptical about the Peppers thing up until now, but I believe Kirwan lends some legitimacy to it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, McGinest was 33 in 2004 when he had his second best year sackwise. In fact, his career was perceived to be winding down until he had a resurgence at 30. In fact, it wasn't until they switched him from DE to OLB in his 30s that he stopped being an injury prone letdown after a great start to his career.

Roman Phifer was 32 when he came to the Patriots and had four good seasons.

Tedy Bruschi made his first Super Bowl at 31.

Although Adalius Thomas was a disapointment, the Pats have had success with LBs in their 30s.

I believe you meant to say that Bruschi made his first PRO BOWL at 31. Bruschi was 23 when he made his first Super Bowl

 

[stevedogc]

Ok, hypothetically speaking, lets say we do sign Peppers. I am of the belief that they simply can not sign Pepper, Wilfork and Brady to long term deals. I think the best bet may be to tag Wilfork and trade him away. My questions are, if they do this:

1. What can they get for him and who is a posssible trading partner?

2. Who can we get to replace Vince? Possibilites: Draft - Dan Williams (1st rnd), Mount Cody (2nd) FA - Ryan Pickett (GB), Aubrayo Franklin (49ers), other?

 

[DaBruinz]

Then why the lust for a NT who can't rush the passer and can't play half the downs? The Patriots - unfortunately - traded their best all-around defensive player last season to the Raiders, a guy like Peppers would be closer to a complete player than Wilfork.

First off, you can't compare a 3-4 NT who CAN rush the passer but is asked NOT TO because that isn't his job to a 4-3 DE who's sole purpose is to rush the passer. Also, Wilfork is subbed out on passing downs, not because he CAN'T play, but because the Pats use a different scheme for their Nickel package.

And I'm not convinced Peppers would be a liability against the run here (or that he even is in Carolina, since their D has been so successful with him). If he's playing as a 3-4 OLB, he certainly has the size & length & athleticism to set the edge, no question. If it's a matter of desire/technique, whatever, it could be corrected. He has the physical ability to do it. Whereas a guy like Tully Banta Cain does not have that physical ability and never will, and was a liability against the run last season.

Just a point of information. TBC played very well against the run last year. Better than Pierre Woods, Burgess or Thomas.

 

[Prufrock]

trade/cut Thomas, sign wilfork/peppers and you have a pretty fearsome defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Tedy had two sacks in the SB his rookie season. . . .

Didn't say Tedy wasn't a good player early in his career. Just saying he was still a great player past 30 and probably would have been even longer than he was if it wasn't for his stroke.

EDIT: I see the confusion. I meant Pro Bowl. He made his fourth Super Bowl at 31.

 

[Rob0729]

I believe you meant to say that Bruschi made his first PRO BOWL at 31. Bruschi was 23 when he made his first Super Bowl

yes. Sorry my mistake.

 

[Rob0729]

In my opinion, Pat Kirwan is a very reliable media guy. He doesn't run around blowing smoke, plus he's wired all over the NFL, in general, and he's very friendly with BB, in particular. I've been skeptical about the Peppers thing up until now, but I believe Kirwan lends some legitimacy to it.

Kirwan and Belichick are friends. They worked together with the Jets. Kirwan MIGHT have some inside info. I emphasize the might.

 

[patfanken]

Well this is an interesting thread. I have been dead set AGAINST signing Peppers for several reasons, chief being the perceived impact on the salary structure, but also including questions about his motor too. HOWEVER this thread has opened my eyes a bit. Those QB pressure and forced fumble numbers can't be ignored, AND for the next 3 years age shouldn't be a factor. In today's athletic environment 32 ISN'T old.

The other interesting fact that came out in this thread is Wilfolk's playing percentage. Yes he's good at what he does, but if he's not on the field for more than 60% of the game, how can you justify paying him the big money long term.

Nice thread.... it not only started me changing my opinion on Peppers, it starting me rethinking my stance on Wilfolk as well.

 

[BradyManny]

First off, you can't compare a 3-4 NT who CAN rush the passer but is asked NOT TO because that isn't his job to a 4-3 DE who's sole purpose is to rush the passer. Also, Wilfork is subbed out on passing downs, not because he CAN'T play, but because the Pats use a different scheme for their Nickel package.

Could be true, but ultimately, what's the difference? Does Vince Wilfork offer us any value in our nickel/dime packages or not? The answer is very little, to none. It doesn't matter to the Patriots if Vince Wilfork might be a successful pass rusher for another team in another defensive scheme.

Is Vince Wilfork ever going to close out a big game for us with a clutch sack? Does that mean he's not a valuable player? Of course not. But to me, that absolutely decreases his value to us.

Just a point of information. TBC played very well against the run last year. Better than Pierre Woods, Burgess or Thomas.

TBC might've blown up some running plays, but he is not good at setting the edge. I think it's a huge stretch to say he played well against the run this past year. It's more accurate to say he makes some big plays against the run, but is generally a liability against it - just as he was in his first run as a New England Patriot.

 

[DW Toys]

First off, you can't compare a 3-4 NT who CAN rush the passer but is asked NOT TO because that isn't his job to a 4-3 DE who's sole purpose is to rush the passer. Also, Wilfork is subbed out on passing downs, not because he CAN'T play, but because the Pats use a different scheme for their Nickel package.





Just a point of information. TBC played very well against the run last year. Better than Pierre Woods, Burgess or Thomas.

Jack I can agree with you on your comments. This was a good post sir.

You have not bashed anyone for wanting Peppers , just articulated on Wilfork.
DW Toys
DW Toys

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well this is an interesting thread. I have been dead set AGAINST signing Peppers for several reasons, chief being the perceived impact on the salary structure, but also including questions about his motor too. HOWEVER this thread has opened my eyes a bit. Those QB pressure and forced fumble numbers can't be ignored, AND for the next 3 years age shouldn't be a factor. In today's athletic environment 32 ISN'T old.

The other interesting fact that came out in this thread is Wilfolk's playing percentage. Yes he's good at what he does, but if he's not on the field for more than 60% of the game, how can you justify paying him the big money long term.

Nice thread.... it not only started me changing my opinion on Peppers, it starting me rethinking my stance on Wilfolk as well.

For me, it was the Super Bowl.

I just look at a guy like Dwight Freeney and what he means to that Colt defense. When he was in the game, NO was struggling. He comes out and Brees goes crazy. IMO NO was still going to win that game regardless, but his presence in being able to disrupt the passing game cannot be accounted for enough.

Last year, Freeney he had 13.5 sacks, 47 Qb pressures (37 in 2008)and 13 hits. Both Freeney and Peppers entered the league in 2002. Freeney has 84 career sacks and Peppers has 81. Freeney also has 35 career forced fumbles and as I said earlier, Peppers has 30 to his credit.

Leave him at DE. Stand him up at OLB. I'm sure BB will find a way for Peppers to rush the QB 500+ times no matter what.

 

[RobertWeathers]

TBC might've blown up some running plays, but he is not good at setting the edge. I think it's a huge stretch to say he played well against the run this past year. It's more accurate to say he makes some big plays against the run, but is generally a liability against it - just as he was in his first run as a New England Patriot.

TBC is marginal to below average at setting the edge but he did seem better this year at doing it than from what I remember in 2006. His strength is plays in space with his quickness and pursuit. Overpowering tackles and guards is something he is simply not good at.

 

[BradyManny]

TBC is marginal to below average at setting the edge but he did seem better this year at doing it than from what I remember in 2006. His strength is plays in space with his quickness and pursuit. Overpowering tackles and guards is something he is simply not good at.

Agreed, that seems like a fair assessment of his strengths and weaknesses to me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Agreed, that seems like a fair assessment of his strengths and weaknesses to me.

With that said, I very much want him back on the team. He provided decent pressure and did do a nice job in the running game by not getting locked down so much. Not sure what kind of payoff he is looking for.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, is Peppers really that bad against the run or is he that good against the pass that he doesn't get the credit for his run defense. I remember Colvin's knock was his poor run defense before he came here. He was also a converted DE who never played 3-4 OLB. He was actually pretty good vs. the run for the Pats. Not great, but far more than just adequet.