Borges: Condon puts Pats on call

[DaBruinz]

Colston has red flags???

In what regard?? He makes all his noise on the field with quality production. He never opens his mouth.

He hasn't missed a game in 3+ seasons (61 straight games)

Playoff game numbers this year... Det- 7, 120, (long 40 yards)
SF- 9, 136, 1TD (long 31 yards)

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

Marques Colston, WR for the New Orleans Saints at NFL.com

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/team/roster/Marques-Colston/22b4ccc1-db50-48fe-aacd-66201d1d7ea1

Clearly, you are wrong. Colston missed 2 games and parts of 2 more this year and missed 1 and parts of others the year before as well. Colston didn't miss any time in 2009. But that was the last time he played in all 16 games. And he's only had 2 seasons out of 6 where he's been healthy.

So, he has injury flags.

 

[DaBruinz]

After reading that article it seems to me that Condon is saying "If Brandon wants top money, I'll try. If Brandon wants to play somewhere else for less money, I'll try."

I didn't see anything negative there.

Lloyd made less than 1.5 mill last year. He's worth anywhere from 4-6 mill per year tops based on league average. We can pay his base salary by simply getting rid of Bodden, Wright, and Ocho (which was probably going to happen anyway).

But if that isn't good enough, there are other receivers. Fair is fair.

Bodden is long gone. Wright is probably going to retire. As for Ocho, he may not be gone until TC.... Until that time, the Pats have to carry his 4.8million cap hit. And cutting him only saves 1.3 million or so.

 

[DaBruinz]

in terms of being options for the pats, only wayne and bowe need apply. bowe will cost much more. wayne will be cost competitive with lloyd. not sure which one I would rather have since I don't see wayne as a stretch the field guy. I don't think 5M/per will cut it.

I'd rather go after pierre garcon anyway

Wayne will be 35 going into the season. I can't see him getting more than 3-4 million.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Pats don't need someone to stretch the field. They need someone who can get open consistently. That is a bigger issue. That is what made the "Midget Squad" so effective in 2003. All 4 receivers (Brown, Branch, Givens, Patten) were getting open consistently and teams couldn't cover all of them.

 

[Elijah T.]

Yes.... 16/15/14

16 in 2009, 15 in 2010, 14 in 2011

Your initial claim was that he hadn't missed a game in 3 1/2 seasons.



Come on, man.... your own words:





Lots of receivers are productive and reliable. That's not the issue here.

My mistake I read his stats wrong initially.

Since 2008 Colston has played 60 out of 70 possible games for the Saints (2008- 10/16, 2009- 19/19, 2010- 15/17, 2011- 16/18).

I don't see a problem with that.

What don't you understand about the 'different abilities' posts?

I stated they had 'different abilities' in the first post, and told you what I felt the 'different abilities' were after you quoted me....right

Stats and Variables was one sentence. (period). Both players having different abilities was a second sentence. (period).

Why are you making mountains out of mole hills??

Who cares what the stats are?

The question is what do the players offer the offense from a physical skill standpoint? Can they beat man coverage, can they stretch the field, can they catch??

What else matters?!?!

You're the one talking about quarterback play, dome, etc etc etc...How does any of that translate to either player having success or not having success in New England??

 

[patsfan13]

How many times this past decade have we all talked about a certain player destined to be here only to realize Belichick does not think that way?

I would say about 95% of the time fans are wrong about what Belichick wants to do.

That's why I think it's a longshot that Lloyd comes here.....because most in here think it's destiny.

The Condon issue aside (and it could be a deal killer). The reason Lloyd should come here is because he is a proven commodity in the system the Pats play and fills a glaring need for the team. This differentiates him from every other FA on the market.

 

[Deus Irae]

My mistake I read his stats wrong initially.

Since 2008 Colston has played 60 out of 70 possible games for the Saints (2008- 10/16, 2009- 19/19, 2010- 15/17, 2011- 16/18).

I don't see a problem with that.

What don't you understand about the 'different abilities' posts?

I stated they had 'different abilities' in the first post, and told you what I felt the 'different abilities' were after you quoted me....right

Stats and Variables was one sentence. (period). Both players having different abilities was a second sentence. (period).

Why are you making mountains out of mole hills??

Who cares what the stats are?

The question is what do the players offer the offense from a physical skill standpoint? Can they beat man coverage, can they stretch the field, can they catch??

What else matters?!?!

You're the one talking about quarterback play, dome, etc etc etc...How does any of that translate to either player having success or not having success in New England??

Ok, you're just clowning yourself and boring me at this point, particularly since you can't see how you're being completely inconsistent from point to point of this very post, as well as being completely untrustworthy in terms of your arguments/cites since you take about half a dozen posts to figure out something as obvious as getting the number of games played wrong. Off to the ignore list with you.

 

[IllegalContact]

Wayne will be 35 going into the season. I can't see him getting more than 3-4 million.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Pats don't need someone to stretch the field. They need someone who can get open consistently. That is a bigger issue. That is what made the "Midget Squad" so effective in 2003. All 4 receivers (Brown, Branch, Givens, Patten) were getting open consistently and teams couldn't cover all of them.

at that time, bot patten and branch had the ability to get deep.

I'm with you on the idea of not needing a guy who is a top deep threat, but a guy who can make the defense pay if they don't respect that ability. you need to force the defense to consider that option

 

[Elijah T.]

Ok, you're just clowning yourself and boring me at this point, particularly since you can't see how you're being completely inconsistent from point to point of this very post, as well as being completely untrustworthy in terms of your arguments/cites since you take about half a dozen posts to figure out something as obvious as getting the number of games played wrong. Off to the ignore list with you.

Wow man..

You spend way too much time on here.

They must be paying you to be here, as serious as this message board posting is to you.

Wow.

 

[RIpats88]

I cant believe some people here think our WR corps is fine..

Deion branch doesnt scare any opposing teams...we saw against the jets(last year) ravens, Giants....that they can take him out with single coverage...then we are left with brady forcing tight passes to welker/gronk/hernandez because not only do teams know they dont have to fear the deep threat, they know no one is going to play the sidelines and they can keep the safeties in and clog the middle with linebackers.

now, imagine having a #2 WR who is going to beat his man, and can go deep...teams cant "cheat" off him and clog the middle of the field or keep the safeties in...this opens up the middle Alot where welker/Gronk/Hernandez roam

Belichick doesnt bring in Ocho if he didnt think we needed an upgrade at #2 WR in the first place....he saw what we all saw in that Jets loss...team took out branch, clogged the middle of the field. and since no one can beat man coverage brady stands around looking and looking with no one open and ends up getting sacked/pressured...the greatness of Gronk/welker this year masked alot of it...but it came back to roost in the playoffs especially with Gronk injured...

Brady/pats are at their best when brady is spreading the ball and not targeting one receiver all the time...giving brady another weapon would really do wonders Imo..imagine welker,gronk,hernandez,lloyd,Woodhead....thats 5 guys who could go out on a route

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Colston will get more $$ than lloyd


I can see TB going after lloyd and colston for freeman

 

[DonBlackmon55]

That is utter BS. Yes, there were several key players who were drafted under Parcells (the only players from the Carroll era to be on Super Bowl teams were Faulk and Damien Woody), but Belichick made wholesale changes in 2000, 2001, and 2003. Key Super Bowl year players like Brady, Light, Vrabel, Koppen, Dillon, Roman Phifer, Rodney Harrison, Roosevelt Colvin, Ted washington, Bobby Hamilton, Eugen Wilson, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, David Givens, etc. were all brought in by Belichick. Only Law (2 Super Bowls), Milloy (one Super Bowl), Troy, Bruschi, McGinest, and Vinatieri were from the Parcells era.
It is funny. The spin in the early 2000s was that the Pats were winning with a bunch of overachieving players who did their role and weren't looking for individual glory. Now it is that the Pats need stars because that is how they won Super Bowls.

BTW, basically all the Super Bowls in the Belichick era were won or lost on a handful of plays. You wouldn't be making this argument if Asante Samuel intercepted a ball that went right into his bread basket in February of 2008 or Welker caught the ball two weeks ago.

WRONG ! Brady was drafted by Grier and AFTER the draft he was fired. Get your facts right before rambling. Let me help you

One NFL exec called Michigan about Brady - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Also , Ted Johnson says hello

and that was the whole bloody core of the SB winnning teams - Brady, Law, Milloy, Teddy, Willie, and some kicker....they are "ONLY". LOL

 

[BradyFTW!]

WRONG ! Brady was drafted by Grier and AFTER the draft he was fired. Get your facts right before rambling. Let me help you

One NFL exec called Michigan about Brady - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Also , Ted Johnson says hello

and that was the whole bloody core of the SB winnning teams - Brady, Law, Milloy, Teddy, Willie, and some kicker....they are "ONLY". LOL

Brady, Light, Vrabel, Seymour, Harrison, Branch, Wilson, Colvin, Washington, Wilfork, Dillon, Smith, and Poole all say hello too.

 

[Rob0729]

WRONG ! Brady was drafted by Grier and AFTER the draft he was fired. Get your facts right before rambling. Let me help you

One NFL exec called Michigan about Brady - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Also , Ted Johnson says hello

and that was the whole bloody core of the SB winnning teams - Brady, Law, Milloy, Teddy, Willie, and some kicker....they are "ONLY". LOL

Before you attack me for me getting my facts straight by giving incorrect facts to prove me wrong, you might want to get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

Just because Bobby Grier was still on the staff in April of 2000, it doesn't mean it wasn't Belichick's and Pioli's draft (both were in charge at that point and Grier was just there to handle the transistion to the new regime). It was Grier's scouting, but Belichick had total control of the draft. One thing for sure, Brady was not a player picked by Parcells or Carroll which is what I stated. Belichick was the General Manager (or at least had final say on personnel decisions including the draft) during the 2000 draft. Grier was just a consultant at that point.

I admit I forgot about Ted Johnson.

As for the Parcell players, they were key components to the Super Bowl teams (although Milloy was not on two and Law missed most of the season for one). I never said they weren't , but there are 22 starters and 53 players and most of the starters and players on the roster were Belichick picks. Yes, they were important, but so was guys like Brady (who was a Belichick selection no matter how you want to spin it), Harrison, Phifer, Branch (a Super Bowl MVP), Seymour, Vrabel, Bobby Hamilton, Corey Dillon, David Givens, etc.

I'm sorry, but six or seven players (two of whom weren't all all three Super Bowl teams) doesn't constitute a team. They were key players, but so were players Belichick draft most importantly the guy you don't give him credit for drafting in Brady. I just don't think you can say guys like McGinest and Bruschi were infinitely more important to the Super Bowl teams than Brady or Seymour. Or Milloy was more important than Harrison. Or Ted Washington was more important than Mike Vrabel?

BTW, the person most responsible for drafting Tom Brady was really **** Rehbein who talked Belichick into drafting Brady over Tim Rattay, but it was Belichick who made the ultimate decison to draft Brady. It certainly wasn't Grier who had the final say.

 

[DaBruinz]

WRONG ! Brady was drafted by Grier and AFTER the draft he was fired. Get your facts right before rambling. Let me help you

One NFL exec called Michigan about Brady - AFC East Blog - ESPN

Also , Ted Johnson says hello

and that was the whole bloody core of the SB winnning teams - Brady, Law, Milloy, Teddy, Willie, and some kicker....they are "ONLY". LOL

Sorry, but you are wrong. Brady was not drafted by Grier. Brady was drafted by BELICHICK. It's well known that Grier did not do any of the decision making for the 2000 draft. It's well known that Belichick made the decision to draft Brady after talking to **** Rehbein in the draft room and asking Rehbein for his candid analysis between Brady and Tim Rattay. Both of whom Rehbein had worked out personally.

So, while Grier might have talked to Lloyd Carr about Brady, that only went into the draft research that Grier provided to Belichick. The same research that had previously mentioned Kevin Faulk as a starting caliber RB. That had Chris Canty as a starting caliber corner back.

You'll have to pardon me that I give NO CREDIT to a fluff piece article by Tim Graham that has the clear bias of Grier's kids as it's support.

 

[Rob0729]

Sorry, but you are wrong. Brady was not drafted by Grier. Brady was drafted by BELICHICK. It's well known that Grier did not do any of the decision making for the 2000 draft. It's well known that Belichick made the decision to draft Brady after talking to **** Rehbein in the draft room and asking Rehbein for his candid analysis between Brady and Tim Rattay. Both of whom Rehbein had worked out personally.

So, while Grier might have talked to Lloyd Carr about Brady, that only went into the draft research that Grier provided to Belichick. The same research that had previously mentioned Kevin Faulk as a starting caliber RB. That had Chris Canty as a starting caliber corner back.

You'll have to pardon me that I give NO CREDIT to a fluff piece article by Tim Graham that has the clear bias of Grier's kids as it's support.

Grier deserves some credit for putting Brady on the radar, but it was Belichick's draft. He made the calls based on Grier's scouting. What we don't know is whether Grier even wanted Brady after contacting Carr. For all we know, he was in the camp to draft Rattay over Brady.

I do agree that Bobby Grier's drafts where he had final say were mostly horrible. All of his picks other than Glenn, Faulk, and Woody were gone by 2001.

 

[IllegalContact]

BB took complete control of the Pats the moment he signed.

The onyl reason Grier went to Michigan or Grier called Michigan was because BB told him to....or BB told Pioli to tell him to.

Its like sending your kid to the store to get the powerball numbers you told him to get.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Wayne will be 35 going into the season. I can't see him getting more than 3-4 million.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Pats don't need someone to stretch the field. They need someone who can get open consistently. That is a bigger issue. That is what made the "Midget Squad" so effective in 2003. All 4 receivers (Brown, Branch, Givens, Patten) were getting open consistently and teams couldn't cover all of them.

Wayne was born November 17, 1978 which would make him 33 going into the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

BB took complete control of the Pats the moment he signed.

The onyl reason Grier went to Michigan or Grier called Michigan was because BB told him to....or BB told Pioli to tell him to.

Its like sending your kid to the store to get the powerball numbers you told him to get.

Pioli didn't join the staff until after the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wayne was born November 17, 1978 which would make him 33 going into the season.

Doh.. That fuzzy math of mine was at work.. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Rob0729]

Pioli didn't join the staff until after the draft.

Pioli joined the staff in March of that year. He technically worked for Grier until after the draft.