Borges: Condon puts Pats on call

[robbomango]

Re: Condon puts Pats on call

As long as we are going to "pay" the player, I would rather go after Colston or VJack. so, let us see how it unfolds.

As much as Condon talks about Lloyd getting paid he'll still be the cheapest out of the bunch I imagine.

Previous contracts
Marques Colston..... 3 yr(s) $7,950,000....sb $5,000,000
dwayne bowe...........5 yr(s) $9,000,000....sb $1,400,000
reggie wayne............6 yr(s) $39,500,000..sb $12,500,000
Robert Meachem.... 5 yr(s) $11,300,000..sb $1,300,000
Brandon Lloyd......... 2yr(s) $2,050,000......sb $500,000

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I disagree IF a WR have to successfull he needs to be where brady wants him to be , not where Josh wants him to be. A problem with the option routes is he has to read and run a route as brady`s see`s it .Not josh.

I really think this is the time to draft a top tier talant and a speedster late. As i said in the outside you have the sidelines so you are asking the guy to beat press and run couple of deep routes.You want a young guy who can run and big enough to cause issues. I shy away from older outside guys due to injury and stamina.

Josh and Tom see the same things. Choices aren't subjective, they are based on reads and the read is what it is. Josh wants the WR to be where Brady wants him to be. Where the defense dictates he will most likely be open. Josh installed the same system in Denver and St. Louis. Lesser QB but same system...

Rookies in all positions struggle with reads. They aren't asked to do a lot of that in college. Veterans all learn to read defenses to some extent or they don't last long in the NFL. What it comes down to here are guys who read quickly and process that information seamlessly because it comes to them instinctively succeed while others struggle. And guys who run precise routes in the process of seamlessly reacting and adjusting to reads excell. A lot of top tier talent (based on athletiticism and speed) often times are too ADHD to learn to read and react and adapt or become precise because they rely on what got them this far. Belichick said when he drafted CJ that you can't coach speed, and that sadly at times cuts both ways. And given how many other factors beyond athleticism and speed impact ability to be a player in this league let alone on this team in these schemes... What you really want is a guy who has the difficult to quantify "it" factor, as in he gets it...

Those guys are at a premium. They are not easily identified, so if you manage to you really shouldn't ****er too much or try waste a lot of time and effort trying to find a cheaper or younger or seemingly preferable alternative. Belichick tried to wait the Branch situation out but he finally bit the bullitt and traded for him. Ditto Welker. Even Moss. He tried to trade for Lloyd last season before he even knew he could rehire Josh. Now he doesn't have to, he just has to pay him. He obviously won't wildly overpay, but he will pay. Or he will risk paying almost as much for something or things that may not pan out or paying the less palatable ultimate price of coming up just a coupe of plays short of the goal...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

As long as we are going to "pay" the player, I would rather go after Colston or VJack. so, let us see how it unfolds.

They will both be looking for Welker money or more and have a lot more red flags or risks than age like season long suspension potential and 5 knee surgeries including microfracture on both knees...

 

[robbomango]

I'm pretty excited about McDaniels, he has a knack for getting production out his receivers.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Condon puts Pats on call

everlong: has a point though...at that time those guys wern't on the wrong side of 30. You just cannot committ that much money to those guys.

How much is actually committed is debatable and sure you can if the difference is they can make plays the under 30 guys can't...

 

[Elijah T.]

Colston and Jackson will probably be the two most expensive wide receivers on the market other than, possibly, Welker, and they are the two 'quality' receivers with the most red flags.

I'll pass on both, thanks.

Colston has red flags???

In what regard?? He makes all his noise on the field with quality production. He never opens his mouth.

He hasn't missed a game in 3+ seasons (61 straight games)

Playoff game numbers this year... Det- 7, 120, (long 40 yards)
SF- 9, 136, 1TD (long 31 yards)

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

 

[Elijah T.]

After reading that article it seems to me that Condon is saying "If Brandon wants top money, I'll try. If Brandon wants to play somewhere else for less money, I'll try."

I didn't see anything negative there.

Lloyd made less than 1.5 mill last year. He's worth anywhere from 4-6 mill per year tops based on league average. We can pay his base salary by simply getting rid of Bodden, Wright, and Ocho (which was probably going to happen anyway).

But if that isn't good enough, there are other receivers. Fair is fair.

 

[PatsFan2]

Colston has red flags???

In what regard?? He makes all his noise on the field with quality production. He never opens his mouth.

He hasn't missed a game in 3+ seasons (61 straight games)

Playoff game numbers this year... Det- 7, 120, (long 40 yards)
SF- 9, 136, 1TD (long 31 yards)

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

Thanks clearing that up maybe VJack but i have never heard nothing about Colston.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

Microfracture, I believe.

 

[Deus Irae]

Colston has red flags???

In what regard?? He makes all his noise on the field with quality production. He never opens his mouth.

He hasn't missed a game in 3+ seasons (61 straight games)

Playoff game numbers this year... Det- 7, 120, (long 40 yards)
SF- 9, 136, 1TD (long 31 yards)

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

5 knee surgeries, including microfracture on each leg. I consider that to be multiple red flags, since I look at any microfracture as a red flag when dealing with long-term contracts. You're welcome to take a different approach, and sing his praises to the heavens. Lloyd's been the better receiver over the course of the past two seasons, he's been healthier historically, and he'll likely cost less.

I'll pass on Colston.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How many times this past decade have we all talked about a certain player destined to be here only to realize Belichick does not think that way?

I would say about 95% of the time fans are wrong about what Belichick wants to do.

That's why I think it's a longshot that Lloyd comes here.....because most in here think it's destiny.

 

[Ivan]

Wow, a guy who keeps his mouth shut, plays every game and is incredibly productive, sounds familiar. All of a sudden those are apparently admirable traits.

 

[Elijah T.]

5 knee surgeries, including microfracture on each leg. I consider that to be multiple red flags, since I look at any microfracture as a red flag when dealing with long-term contracts. You're welcome to take a different approach, and sing his praises to the heavens. Lloyd's been the better receiver over the course of the past two seasons, he's been healthier historically, and he'll likely cost less.

I'll pass on Colston.

I understand the microfractures. But it hasn't hurt his production, slowed him down on the field, or forced him to miss games.

He hasn't missed a game in 3 1/2 seasons.

His production has been as good or better than Lloyd's over the past two seasons-- and his career.

He's bigger, stronger, and equally as fast in a straight line as Lloyd. Lloyd is probably quicker out of his breaks.

I like them both, but Colston's younger and an absolute team first player.

The injuries haven't kept him off the field...But if you don't like him, I understand it's your preference.

I hope we at least give him a serious look, and triple check his medical conditions.

 

[JackBauer]

That's why I think it's a longshot that Lloyd comes here.....because most in here think it's destiny.

That would be a terrific argument ... were it not for the fact that the Patriots allegedly already expressed interest in bringing Lloyd on board.

 

[robbomango]

How many times this past decade have we all talked about a certain player destined to be here only to realize Belichick does not think that way?

I would say about 95% of the time fans are wrong about what Belichick wants to do.

That's why I think it's a longshot that Lloyd comes here.....because most in here think it's destiny.

I don't think it's destiny. He expressed a desire to continue playing w McD and McD's feelings are mutual, BB also showed interest in LLoyd before McD got here. If it doesn't happen there's plenty of talent available, no worries.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

That would be a terrific argument ... were it not for the fact that the Patriots allegedly already expressed interest in bringing Lloyd on board.

And Lloyd has expressed interest in following McD, Im betting they sign him.

 

[JackBauer]

I understand the microfractures. But it hasn't hurt his production, slowed him down on the field, or forced him to miss games.

I think his point is that the additional production you'd see from Colston, if any, is simply not worth 1.) the additional costs of a more expensive contract and 2.) the much increased risk for potentially career-ending injury.

 

[Zeus]

It's been pretty clear over a number of years that the biggest risk at the WR position for the Patriots is that a player will not sufficiently understand and be able to execute his responsibilities in the NE offense. There are many examples of players with ample physcial ability who just didn't get it: Donald Hayes, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, Chad Ochocinco, just to name a few.

Based on this alone, Brandon Lloyd is by far the most attractive veteran FA target out there (assuming, of course, that Josh McDaniels believes that Lloyd can function effectively in this offense). This doesn't mean they should pay him crazy money but the knowledge that he'll get the offense enhances his value to the Patriots.

 

[Onedaful]

It's been pretty clear over a number of years that the biggest risk at the WR position for the Patriots is that a player will not sufficiently understand and be able to execute his responsibilities in the NE offense. There are many examples of players with ample physcial ability who just didn't get it: Donald Hayes, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, Chad Ochocinco, just to name a few.

Based on this alone, Brandon Lloyd is by far the most attractive veteran FA target out there (assuming, of course, that Josh McDaniels believes that Lloyd can function effectively in this offense). This doesn't mean they should pay him crazy money but the knowledge that he'll get the offense enhances his value to the Patriots.

I agree with this completely, I think it is a good perspective on Lloyd. I honestly believe (or hope) that Lloyd can mesh well with this team and can easily be productive. Having McD here is just another plus for Lloyd to feel slightly settled in already.

 

[ivanvamp]

It's been pretty clear over a number of years that the biggest risk at the WR position for the Patriots is that a player will not sufficiently understand and be able to execute his responsibilities in the NE offense. There are many examples of players with ample physcial ability who just didn't get it: Donald Hayes, Bethel Johnson, Chad Jackson, Joey Galloway, Taylor Price, Brandon Tate, Chad Ochocinco, just to name a few.

Based on this alone, Brandon Lloyd is by far the most attractive veteran FA target out there (assuming, of course, that Josh McDaniels believes that Lloyd can function effectively in this offense). This doesn't mean they should pay him crazy money but the knowledge that he'll get the offense enhances his value to the Patriots.

I agree with this post. Totally. That's why they should - unless the money is CRAZY - re-sign Welker and go get Lloyd. I don't care how big the contracts are, so long as their guaranteed money isn't very big. You can always cut them down the road (sorry...that's the nature of the NFL). I'd prefer no more than 3-year deals, but if you have to go 5, fine, just make sure that you structure it so those last 2-3 can be cut off without too much difficulty or cap hit. Re-sign Branch for not a lot as well. He can be the #3 receiver.

Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Gronk, Hernandez....that's a serious receiver group. Probably better than any group they've ever had, when all is said and done.