Borges: Condon puts Pats on call

[IllegalContact]

Absolutely, I think Ocho's deal was 3yrs $12mil. I would have no problem giving Lloyd 3yrs $15mil.

LOL.......I guess no Lloyd for you

 

[IllegalContact]

my only question is: "is mcdaniels the one throwing the ball to Lloyd?"

 

[ivanvamp]

LOL.......I guess no Lloyd for you

Just curious: what do you (and others) think Lloyd will end up getting? Here are some relevant facts:

(1) His last contract looked like this: 2 years, $2.05 million (total) - see: Brandon Lloyd Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

(2) This past year he put up this stat line: 70 rec, 966 yds, 5 td. Pretty good if you ask me, but not exactly premier receiver #'s. Granted, he was on a crummy team, but still.

(3) He'll be 31 years old next season. Not exactly a guy entering his prime.

(4) There are a lot of very good receivers on the market this year. Law of supply and demand. Lots of supply should depress the market somewhat.

So given that, what's a reasonable guess? Certainly he'll make a lot more per year than his last contract, that's obvious. But how much more? With Wayne, Colston, Meacham, VJax, DJax, Bowe, Manningham, S.Johnson, L.Robinson, Wallace, etc., on the market, do we expect a 31-year old Lloyd to command $6-9 million a year?

 

[Elijah T.]

I think his point is that the additional production you'd see from Colston, if any, is simply not worth 1.) the additional costs of a more expensive contract and 2.) the much increased risk for potentially career-ending injury.

Yeah, and because he's had two microfracture surgeries it can only help teams in negotiations...especially with upfront money.

As far as LLoyd, he seems like a perfect fit.

Listening to him interview during the top 100 players piece, he's definitely intelligent and knowledgeable about the game, aware of his own abilities and why he wasn't productive earlier in his career.

The Pats want him here or wanted him here, and he wants to play for McDaniels...as long as both sides pay market value it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[PittPatriot]

Only Law (2 Super Bowls), Milloy (one Super Bowl), Troy, Bruschi, McGinest, and Vinatieri were from the Parcells era. It is funny...

Ok…now THAT is funny. ONLY the greatest CB, middle LB, PK, edge-setter, and Mr. Patriot himself were Parcells contributions. I won't even include a locker room leader and top tier safety in Lawyer Milloy. ONLY?!

No one is saying the BB is Barry Switzer to Parcells' Jimmy Johnson…but let's not understate that the backbone core of all those SuperBowls started with in the BP era…survived the Carroll era…and flourished in the BB era.

 

[satz]

You make that sound so easy.

Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate and Taylor Price make it look so hard.

Look at this
Jackson was drafted to be no 1 and he pushed right in.got injured in yr 1 and was a head case.
Only 1 of 2 pick in 11 yrs-branch being the other.

Brandon Tate - Drafting an injured players to IR for 1 yr.....

Price - 3rd pick who has injury issue.

I am talking about taking a legit guy who does not slip due to injury or a headcase.

 

[ProudestRyno]

Colston has red flags???

In what regard?? He makes all his noise on the field with quality production. He never opens his mouth.

He hasn't missed a game in 3+ seasons (61 straight games)

Playoff game numbers this year... Det- 7, 120, (long 40 yards)
SF- 9, 136, 1TD (long 31 yards)

I don't know what his red flags are...The guy shows up to play every day and keeps his mouth shut.

Huh?

Dude is always nursing some sort of injury...

And I'm not sure where you got the part I bolded...might wanna double check that, man....

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand the microfractures. But it hasn't hurt his production, slowed him down on the field, or forced him to miss games.

He hasn't missed a game in 3 1/2 seasons.

Colston's last 3 seasons have been 16/15/14 games.

His production has been as good or better than Lloyd's over the past two seasons-- and his career.

Lloyd's past 2 seasons, with lesser QBs and playing in Denver as opposed to the dome in New Orleans:

77 for 1448
70 for 966

Total: 144 for 2414

Colston during that time, with the benefit of playing in the dome, in the warm weather, and with Brees:

84 for 1023
80 for 1143

Total: 164 for 2166

So, given that we're looking for a guy who's going to stretch the field wide and deep, as opposed to a guy who's going to rack up the catch totals, Lloyd's been the more productive receiver over the past 2 seasons, and that's despite a midseason trade from one team to another.

 

[fgssand]

No wonder why the Pats don't like this guy. The pats and condon haven't done a deal in 8 years or so, yet this guy starts publicly negotiating before the Patriots can even hold a conversation with him.
It still comes down to how the market shakes out but IMO this is not a good indicator..

I kind of liked what I read and viewed as a positive sign. It all comes down to this: If Lloyd really wants to play here and is willing to sign a reasonable deal, then he will be a Patriot.

The guy loves Josh and knows our system, that's a huge benefit. Gotta believe he would want to come here as the opportunity for a ring and playing for BB with TB throwing to you has to be a dream scenario for any WR that is willing to work and play hard.

 

[IllegalContact]

Just curious: what do you (and others) think Lloyd will end up getting? Here are some relevant facts:

(1) His last contract looked like this: 2 years, $2.05 million (total) - see: Brandon Lloyd Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

(2) This past year he put up this stat line: 70 rec, 966 yds, 5 td. Pretty good if you ask me, but not exactly premier receiver #'s. Granted, he was on a crummy team, but still.

(3) He'll be 31 years old next season. Not exactly a guy entering his prime.

(4) There are a lot of very good receivers on the market this year. Law of supply and demand. Lots of supply should depress the market somewhat.

So given that, what's a reasonable guess? Certainly he'll make a lot more per year than his last contract, that's obvious. But how much more? With Wayne, Colston, Meacham, VJax, DJax, Bowe, Manningham, S.Johnson, L.Robinson, Wallace, etc., on the market, do we expect a 31-year old Lloyd to command $6-9 million a year?

in terms of being options for the pats, only wayne and bowe need apply. bowe will cost much more. wayne will be cost competitive with lloyd. not sure which one I would rather have since I don't see wayne as a stretch the field guy. I don't think 5M/per will cut it.

I'd rather go after pierre garcon anyway

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

That would be a terrific argument ... were it not for the fact that the Patriots allegedly already expressed interest in bringing Lloyd on board.

When Belichick goes on record to the media that he would like Lloyd then I will beleive it,otherwise its all heresay with the fact that Lloyd likes McDaniels .....Moss also likes McDaniels,so who knows?

 

[Elijah T.]

Huh?

Dude is always nursing some sort of injury...

And I'm not sure where you got the part I bolded...might wanna double check that, man....

Ok, he missed 0 games last year, and played in both playoff games. (18 games)

Missed one game in 2010 including playoff. (16 of 17)

Missed 0 games in 2009 including playoffs (19 of 19)

My bad, he's played in 53 of 54 games.

Not bad in my opinion.

 

[signbabybrady]

I kind of liked what I read and viewed as a positive sign. It all comes down to this: If Lloyd really wants to play here and is willing to sign a reasonable deal, then he will be a Patriot.

The guy loves Josh and knows our system, that's a huge benefit. Gotta believe he would want to come here as the opportunity for a ring and playing for BB with TB throwing to you has to be a dream scenario for any WR that is willing to work and play hard.

Obviously in the end the agent will do what the player wants.

But I interpret this statement like this - Damage control on the rumor that his player only wants to follow Josh because this rumor damages intrest from other teams and inturn could damage the bottom dollar with the Pats. I think at the same time it says to 31 teams if you want him you need to step up significantly more than the Pats as that is the players preference and it says to the Pats he does perfer to play for you but not at any discount or anything.

 

[Elijah T.]

Colston's last 3 seasons have been 16/15/14 games.



Lloyd's past 2 seasons, with lesser QBs and playing in Denver as opposed to the dome in New Orleans:

77 for 1448
70 for 966

Total: 144 for 2414

Colston during that time, with the benefit of playing in the dome, in the warm weather, and with Brees:

84 for 1023
80 for 1143

Total: 164 for 2166

So, given that we're looking for a guy who's going to stretch the field wide and deep, as opposed to a guy who's going to rack up the catch totals, Lloyd's been the more productive receiver over the past 2 seasons, and that's despite a midseason trade from one team to another.

He did not miss two games in 2009...Which games?

He's missed one game in three years.

As far as stats and variables, you're splitting hairs. Both players offer different benefits.

Colston has no trouble getting downfield, if you've seen him you know that.

Lloyd has only been a decent player for two of his nine years in the league, Moving on to his sixth team.

Qb play hasn't benefitted Lloyd, sure, but I'm just looking at what the players offer in complete value. Both should be considered.

 

[mgteich]

If Lloyd wanted a reasonable deal, he wouldn't have gone to Condon. Condon will do his best to find one team which will be willing to seign an unreasonable deal. That is his job.

I kind of liked what I read and viewed as a positive sign. It all comes down to this: If Lloyd really wants to play here and is willing to sign a reasonable deal, then he will be a Patriot.

The guy loves Josh and knows our system, that's a huge benefit. Gotta believe he would want to come here as the opportunity for a ring and playing for BB with TB throwing to you has to be a dream scenario for any WR that is willing to work and play hard.

 

[Marqui]

That article sounded like good news to me. I'll be surprised if Lloyd isn't here next season.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Lloyd sure didn't do himself any favours by employing the services of Condon as his agent. At least when it comes to gaining employment with the Patriots.

 

[Ron Sellers]

I edited the thread title to include the fact that this is a Borges article - - before anyone unknowingly hits the link to read Ronny be the mouthpiece of another agent that has "issues to air" about the Patriots.

Thanks, because that point is well worth noting.

When Borges sticks to X's and O's analysis, he is capable of being the best football writer there is in New England. Unfortunately he gets sidetracked far too often on two topics for which he is incredibly biased: anything to do with Bill Belichick, and anything to do with players, agents and unions in regards to teams, owners, and executives.

I haven't read the article yet; but for anybody that does, Borges' history of employee (players) versus management (GM) truly does have to be taken into consideration.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When Belichick goes on record to the media that he would like Lloyd then I will beleive it,otherwise its all heresay with the fact that Lloyd likes McDaniels .....Moss also likes McDaniels,so who knows?

That's assinine, Belichick never goes on record to the media about any personnel matter. The fact is he attempted to trade for him before the deadline when he realized the a GPS in the Pruis wasn't the only thing Chad was missing, but Josh got the rams to outbid other teams on a 10 week rental. We didn't have a 2012 6th round or conditional 5th round pick to trade for anyone at the time. We'd already wasted the 5th on Chad. And traded the 6th for White (plus two 7ths gone in the Moss swap and on Jarrad Page).

 

[Deus Irae]

He did not miss two games in 2009...Which games?

He's missed one game in three years.

Marques Colston NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Marques Colston, WR for the New Orleans Saints at NFL.com

Two separate sites, including NFL.com, have Colston at 16/15/14.

As far as stats and variables, you're splitting hairs. Both players offer different benefits.

No, I'm not. I was responding to your claim. You don't get to argue that catch totals don't matter over the middle, where they actually DO matter, but that they matter on middle-deep stuff, where they matter less than yardage and YPC. And both players play basically the same way, so I don't see how that's "different benefits".

Colston has no trouble getting downfield, if you've seen him you know that.

Lloyd has only been a decent player for two of his nine years in the league, Moving on to his sixth team.

Lloyd's been more productive than Colston in the last two seasons, and he's done it in the Patriots/McDaniels system. He's an injury risk, as is Colston, but it's not microfracture and he's been healthy for two straight seasons. I'm not saying that he's the cat's meow, just that he's a better fit, for the money, and that I don't like the baggage that comes with Colston's knees.

Qb play hasn't benefitted Lloyd, sure, but I'm just looking at what the players offer in complete value. Both should be considered.

I understand why people like Colston. If he wasn't likely to get one of the 2-3 largest contracts among the FA WRs this year, I'd look at him more favorably. Given the likely money asked and length of contract, though, he's off my board, so to speak.