Bedard: Brian Waters holdout for personal reasons and more $

[Deus Irae]

this is simply not true

Sorry, but it is true. You seem to have confused your attempt at justifying the Patriots move with differentiating it.

 

[IllegalContact]

Sorry, but it is true. You seem to have confused your attempt at justifying the Patriots move with differentiating it.

speak for your own confusion.....I haven't confused anything......the facts are straightforward

 

[Ivan]

That sounds like the surest way to tip his balance toward retirement. The fact that they didn't do it says to me that they really want him back.

Yep, right on the money. No pun intended.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Belichick told me that there will be no money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So, I've got that going for me. Which is nice.- Brian Waters

 

[patfanken]

I believe it was Bedard himself last week who eluded to a possible lack of trust. Probably mutual. Could be the team feels that despite the value they got from the first year of the signing they wouldn't top it this season. And perhaps the player who doesn't really know them started reading some tea leaves and decided he could show up and get screwed and find himself playing the role of $900K vet. min. insurance to whatever they felt they sufficiently developed during the off season.

What lack of trust are you talking about. The Pats showed Waters ENORMOUS trust by allowing him not coming to the off season program. Not coming to OTA's. NOT even coming to training camp.

They have bent over backward to accommodate Waters' need to be close to home. They have had a history of this kind of accommodation going back to the 2001 LB whose name escapes me now, but who was allowed to go home after every game and not return until Wednesday.

The only accommodation that they asked in return was to give him a raise but structure it so he has to be ready to play and good enough to start. What a shock. Imaging the Pats requiring a player who they haven't seen since last February be in shape and ready to play capably before paying him.

IMHO much too much has been made about this "supposed" money give back. All Waters has to do to earn MORE than his 1.4MM he's due is to be capable of being a starting RT in the NFL. If he comes back and can't be that, why would want to pay him more than the $900K vet minimum.

Again the mediots....and you, Mo, want to excoriate the Pats for the sin of expecting their players to EARN the money they make.

 

[fnordcircle]

Poor baby. Football season is 4 months. Get out there and make your family a couple million bucks. It's not like this is a second tour in Iraq.

Why should a person who doesn't want to be away from their family go through 4 months of being away from them, exactly?

And spare me the usual 'HE SIGNED A CONTRACT' rhetoric because teams don't honor contracts so we shouldn't hold players to a different standard.

If he doesn't want to be away from his family so be it. He won't play football this year. I can find no fault with either side in this. The Patriots don't want him going to a rival and he doesn't want to be away from his family. In the end they will both get that if he doesn't show up.

 

[Zeus]

What lack of trust are you talking about. The Pats showed Waters ENORMOUS trust by allowing him not coming to the off season program. Not coming to OTA's. NOT even coming to training camp.

They have bent over backward to accommodate Waters' need to be close to home. They have had a history of this kind of accommodation going back to the 2001 LB whose name escapes me now, but who was allowed to go home after every game and not return until Wednesday.

The only accommodation that they asked in return was to give him a raise but structure it so he has to be ready to play and good enough to start. What a shock. Imaging the Pats requiring a player who they haven't seen since last February be in shape and ready to play capably before paying him.

IMHO much too much has been made about this "supposed" money give back. All Waters has to do to earn MORE than his 1.4MM he's due is to be capable of being a starting RT in the NFL. If he comes back and can't be that, why would want to pay him more than the $900K vet minimum.

Again the mediots....and you, Mo, want to excoriate the Pats for the sin of expecting their players to EARN the money they make.

Roman Phifer

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The new contract is all about shifting risk. No team wants to display weakness during negotiations, especially if the management is about to act contrary to their fundamental belief that contracts are binding. The Pats approached this new agreement with the "we're giving you something, you must give us something"....and this is for Waters to assume more risk for his extra dollars. I imagine the trust issue stems from the 46 game day roster clause and apprhension that the Pats might play games to save coin. Personally, I view BB as the coach that treats vets with more respect than than all others

Again, if Bedard is correct in all things...the agreement that he wouldn't be required to participate in the off season was in effect (an issue he and Bill discussed and agreed to) before he signed the original contract. So the question becomes why then was it any part of a revisiting of the contract? I understand them not wanting to be on the hook for a bundle if a guy they signed last season who went to the pro bowl isn't that same guy six months later. But what led them to think that, if in fact that was the case, and why were they so suddenly concerned about $500K - they wasted three times that on non generally non refundable signing bonuses to players no longer here just this off season. His remaining deal was for $1.4M plus $750K in incentives if he earned them as he had earned twice that amount in 2011.

What you or I view Bill as isn't the issue. And sometimes our view is stilted. Players may see him differently depending on their circumstances. Waters doesn't know him all that well. Nor apparently do they him. So maybe he sees things transpire that lead him to wonder if he should trust them at all. They bring Koppen back freeing up Connolly to play guard as well as bringing in Gallery to play guard. They play hardball with Welker before and after the season. I believe one of Bill's policies is to do business as business is done. Teams are always moving on from players for one reason or another. And if you're a veteran with an aversion to being away from family in the off season and they knew that about you when they signed you and they move on from you before 4PM on the Friday before the first week of the season, you just spent 4 months commuting or apart from family and killing yourself for a per diem.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What lack of trust are you talking about. The Pats showed Waters ENORMOUS trust by allowing him not coming to the off season program. Not coming to OTA's. NOT even coming to training camp.

They have bent over backward to accommodate Waters' need to be close to home. They have had a history of this kind of accommodation going back to the 2001 LB whose name escapes me now, but who was allowed to go home after every game and not return until Wednesday.

The only accommodation that they asked in return was to give him a raise but structure it so he has to be ready to play and good enough to start. What a shock. Imaging the Pats requiring a player who they haven't seen since last February be in shape and ready to play capably before paying him.

IMHO much too much has been made about this "supposed" money give back. All Waters has to do to earn MORE than his 1.4MM he's due is to be capable of being a starting RT in the NFL. If he comes back and can't be that, why would want to pay him more than the $900K vet minimum.

Again the mediots....and you, Mo, want to excoriate the Pats for the sin of expecting their players to EARN the money they make.

Waters earned his money last season. Yet they were the ones who wanted to change the terms of a deal that would already pay him less. He didn't get a signing bonus on his 2 year deal. He went flat salary plus incentives. If he comes back and can't earn it the second year, at least he outperformed the deal in year 1 alone. They could have cut him at the end of camp if he appeared unlikely to pan out. Same as they did with Koppen only it wouldn't have cost them $350K...

Sometimes I find it hard to believe you ever played the game. Unless it's that you're insanely jealous of the kind of money guys who make it at the next level these days earn.

 

[1960Pats]

Is this a situation where a player can return somewhere down the road and still get paid? If so, look for Waters then.

I'm sure that Waters could find another job near his home, if that's what he truly wants. There must be a Home Depot nearby.

 

[WhiZa]

Goes to first super bowl...

Doesn't think team does enough to keep him around

:bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

speak for your own confusion.....I haven't confused anything......the facts are straightforward

It's two instances of a side agreeing to a deal that puts the other side into a position of reliance, and then deciding they don't want to stay in the deal even before a game is played, and pulling out, leaving the other side high and dry, and with few palatable options.

Same/same

You can play all the games with it you want. It is what it is.

 

[Betterthanmost]

I wonder how much more he wanted.

l can hazard a guess to say Mankins kind of 'more'

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

IF family is the issue as I surmise, it's hard to believe that $ is the cure.
A possibly half season of play (q.v. Junior Seau) might happen

 

[TheBeers]

IF family is the issue as I surmise, it's hard to believe that $ is the cure.
A possibly half season of play (q.v. Junior Seau) might happen

That's kinda what i've been thinking. I wouldn't be too surprised to see him at some point this season. I do think the OL will be fine without him though.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Waters: I CANNOT leave my family again. I can't do it. I WON'T do it... unless you offer me this much more money.

When the issue comes up where a player says "I can't do it because of XXXXX... unless you offer me more money" it fails to be about family, principle, or any other negotiation tactic that is not money.

 

[JoeSixPat]

THis sounds like the real story. I can respect Waters for not wanting to leave home, and the Pats for not wanting to redo a deal they had agreed to redo, and for not letting him play for a team that could prevent them from getting to the SB (Texans).

I agree. There is some principal involved here and precedent for future contracts.

That being said, circumstances can change and what a team might be willing to pay one week can increase the next week if there is an injury.

If Waters has determined it's only worthwhile to play for the Patriots for a certain amount and is prepared to sit out and retire, I can respect that. I wouldn't expect the Pats to release him without compensation either.

 

[eagle eye]

I'd imagine that he has been quietly offered the money he wants closer to home which suits him a lot better. The problem is that the Patriots want him or something real good in exchange if that is whats going on.

If the Patriots believe that Houston is his destination then I think they are right to hold him to his contract unless they get something worthwhile to let him go there. Last thing any team wants to do is freely strengthen a competitive opponent.

 

[fanarchy187]

Greg Bedard woke up this morning and said.. I have nothing to report on what should I do? Oh I will write my 400th article on Brian Waters..

Of course that leads to a thread about nothing

 

[fanarchy187]

I'd imagine that he has been quietly offered the money he wants closer to home which suits him a lot better. The problem is that the Patriots want him or something real good in exchange if that is whats going on.

If the Patriots believe that Houston is his destination then I think they are right to hold him to his contract unless they get something worthwhile to let him go there. Last thing any team wants to do is freely strengthen a competitive opponent.

The entire NFL is desperate for a 35 year old Right Guard.. Where ever Brian Waters ends up the Lombardi Trophy will follow..