Bedard: Brian Waters holdout for personal reasons and more $

[MoLewisrocks]

I believe it was Bedard himself last week who eluded to a possible lack of trust. Probably mutual. Could be the team feels that despite the value they got from the first year of the signing they wouldn't top it this season. And perhaps the player who doesn't really know them started reading some tea leaves and decided he could show up and get screwed and find himself playing the role of $900K vet. min. insurance to whatever they felt they sufficiently developed during the off season.

 

[Sciz]

I still have a little problem with this version because Bedard stated last week he had only talked to Waters once and it was some time ago and he also stated that they had the agreement about reporting hashed out before the 2 year deal was signed in 2011. Now he seems to have more detail but he isn't sharing which side it is emanating from. And I can't quite wrap my head around why you would ask for a $500K give back to be incentivized on a $1.4M base when it wouldn't alter your cap (only possibly cash) and whether the reports of more earnings took into account he already had $750K in LTBE incentives in the old deal...which if he started 16 games was going to pay him $2.25M. That's a million per less than Connolly's deal. And only $400K more than they were offering the corpse of Gallery.

Maybe his agent feared they would use him as depth and not let him qualify for his incentives. We still don't even know for sure what we're comparing without knowing just what the restructure offer entailed.

What would it take for you to concede that the Patriots aren't at fault here?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

So what is Waters' status then, he is under contract to us, is he on the 53 man roster?

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

So what is Waters' status then, he is under contract to us, is he on the 53 man roster?

Under contract but listed as "did not report"

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So what is Waters' status then, he is under contract to us, is he on the 53 man roster?

He is under contract to the Patriots (the agreement mentioned was a re-negotiation of an existing contract). He does not count against the 53-man roster as he is on the Reserve - did not report list.

 

[Froob]

Can't hate on him for not wanting to play away from home. Looks like he'll retire then.

 

[PatsDeb]

If this is true, how can you blame the Pats for sticking to their guns? I wouldn't throw any more $$ at him either. He's obviously conflicted about playing.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

So if the Pats are not going to release or trade him and he doesn't want to play away from home, why hasn't he retired yet?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Waters remains under contract for 2012 at $1.4M base salary plus $750K in LTBE incentives (based on he earned his $1.75M in bonuses and incentives last season in addition to his base salary). He is on the Reserve Did Not Report List so he doesn't not count against the 53 man roster or the cap. Basically the team hold his rights in the event he does decide to play.

The end of June LaCanfora included him in his list of the 11 best bargain veteran contracts in the league. Of course at the time 99% of patsfans and media concurred. But as always that was then and this is now.

Brian Waters, Patriots, G, $1.5M: You have to think the Chiefs are kicking themselves for letting him go a year ago. One of the best men in the game and still a strong starting guard for a Super Bowl contender at this stage of his career. The Pats swooped in and signed him late, and he ended up being something of a salvation. And this year, should Waters play at anything close to the level he did in 2011, it's another big victory for the elite franchise. They could bump Waters up a few million based on last year's performance, and he would still be a bargain.

 

[dales804]

They brought Gallery in for $1.8M. They also shelled out $350K to bring Koppen back which freed up Connolly who had just signed a 3 year $9.75M extension to swing back to guard. But other than that...

True about Gallery but he was brought in more for insurance on Mankins. I was surprised they resigned Koppen but he was beat out anyways. Thank God for Connolly.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What would it take for you to concede that the Patriots aren't at fault here?

The whole story, timeline and numbers.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

That sounds like the surest way to tip his balance toward retirement. The fact that they didn't do it says to me that they really want him back.

A team doesnt decide when a player retires -- the player decides (or the player can't find a team willing to give him a contract).

Unless there's some really extenuating circumstances (sick child), its Water's fault for signing a 2 year contract away from his family.

In all likelihood he has 1-2 years of football left, then he can spend the next 45 years with his family. It makes no sense

But if there are extenuating circumstances, then asking for 2 raises makes no sense -- the money he'll earn over the next two seasons shouldn't impact his lifestyle -- unless he blew all his money and was just using the 'i want to be home' as a negotiation ploy.

Either way, I don't really care if he's back at this point. And the Pats should start fining him or force him to retire (ie if he doesnt want to be fined).

 

[IllegalContact]

someone said (I don't recall who) that at his age, he was a dummy to sign a contract for 2 years for the money that he signed for....he basically locked himself in with a team for short $$

 

[Triumph]

I'm not sure how more money would make the situation at home any better.

Sounds like Water is trying to make money the issue on why he wont report.

If Waters was in Houston, he would still be 5 hours away from his family in the Dallas area unless he drove home every night.

 

[Triumph]

someone said (I don't recall who) that at his age, he was a dummy to sign a contract for 2 years for the money that he signed for....he basically locked himself in with a team for short $$

Probably his Wife.

Waters could have named his price and contract length last season.

 

[letekro]

Poor baby. Football season is 4 months. Get out there and make your family a couple million bucks. It's not like this is a second tour in Iraq.

 

[Triumph]

I don't buy the "he wants to play closer to home" or "he wants more money" arguments. If this were the case all Waters had to do was show up to camp, fail the conditioning test and proceed to play lousy. That would have got him cut and thus free to go negotiate a deal with whatever team was willing to sign him.

My guess is this is something personal.

Waters could have pulled a George Costanza and hooked up the Pats SB trophies behind his car and dragged them around the parking lot.

Yankees Trophy - YouTube

 

[Deus Irae]

The second he asked for a raise on top of the already agreed upon raise the Patriots should have started fining him.

I'm past caring if he comes back or not, he's shown what he's all about now and I'd rather have players who want to play for the team out there as opposed to someone going back on something they'd already agreed on.

If it's a family issue, fine let him get it sorted but asking for more money after agreeing to a raise is down right selfish.

In free agency, the team tendered Brian Hoyer at just under $2 million for this season, effectively preventing him from getting a job elsewhere. Then, before the season even began, they cut him loose. Hoyer is now out that money because it wasn't guaranteed, and he was cut late enough that it wasn't possible for him to get into a camp early and compete for a job. So, unless you've been railing against the Patriots for their treatment of players like Hoyer, blaming a player who decides he wants to change his mind is just being hypocritical.

 

[Urgent]

I would trade him to Houston in a second.
For the right compensation.

Look, the Patriots traded Bledsoe to Buffalo. Bledsoe was a $100mm QB, our #1 overall pick, he was 28 or 29, with five years or so left. Buffalo was a division opponent. The compensation was a first-round pick.

If Waters won't play in New England, and will play in Texas, the question is whether a Texas team will pay the Patriots adequate compensation.

What's one year of an aging potential pro-bowl guard at low salary worth? What's it worth to the Patriots to strengthen a competitor for the AFC Championship?

 

[IllegalContact]

In free agency, the team tendered Brian Hoyer at just under $2 million for this season, effectively preventing him from getting a job elsewhere. Then, before the season even began, they cut him loose. Hoyer is now out that money because it wasn't guaranteed, and he was cut late enough that it wasn't possible for him to get into a camp early and compete for a job. So, unless you've been railing against the Patriots for their treatment of players like Hoyer, blaming a player who decides he wants to change his mind is just being hypocritical.

the 2 are not necessarily the same..... with hoyer, a sancioned process was followed. when the pats tendered him, they assumed he would remain ahead of mallet on the depth chart.....at a minimum, be able to provide something that mallett could not. since their performances could not set them apart, why pay the guy 2M and take up a roster spot?

with waters, he is under contract, and the pats still upped the money.......I don't blame him for not showing up, but I don't think the pats should just release him so that he might play for someone the pats will have to contend with come playoff time, the texans, who he would instantly upgrade.