Let's Spend Some Time Looking At OL Money and Future

BelichickFan · Feb 11, 2015

The Cannon contract means to me that they like him over Flemming at OT. That could be because they think Cannon is a better OT and Flemming has a niche role at the 6th OL or, very possibly, that Flemming will move to Guard as he did at times this year.

I love Wendell and Cannon for what they did last year (2014, I'm onto 2015 already) but we have to get better in the middle of the line. I'd love an OG in the first 3 rounds with Stork and Flemming presumably getting stronger in the offseason, we could have a decent middle of the OL then. This past year's was good enough to win with in the end but it's not good enough to feel good about going forward.

Peachhead · Feb 11, 2015

The Cannon extension was a real headscratcher to me. I thought he sucked mightily at both RT and especially RG. But hopefully Googs has something in mind and it's just a matter of more time in the system for Cannon.

patsbrasilpatriotas · Feb 11, 2015

Draft Erving this year. He can play G/C/T.
Extend Solder 6/43.
Next year draft a middle round guy to replace Wendell and you will avoid to have all OL hit the free agent together. Stork 2017/ Erving 2018 - Option 2019 / Solder 2020 / Vollmer will retire or will be cheap.
Keep Kline. You can't have pro bowlers as backups. Sign Wendell for backup money G/C.
T: Solder - Vollmer ( Cannon L/R - Fleming/TE role)
G: Erving - Draft #04 2016 ( Kline - Wendell*)
C: Stork ( Wendell*)
Cheap and really good.

SHOWTIME15 · Feb 11, 2015

mgteich said:
I've seen no analysis that make much sense out of paying Cannon over $4.5M for his 2015 services.

The pats view him as starter-material at tackle.

p8ryts · Feb 11, 2015

Bruins29 said:
Extend the Tackles. Guys played lights out when they had to. Unless the feel Cannon is ready to start

Yes, it boggles my mind that people want to cut Solder

BobDigital · Feb 11, 2015

I just want to throw out Cannon's cap hit is only 2.6 this year. The next year (something like 4.5) is not going to happen. That is merely a placeholder. The only bad thing about that he has about 1M guaranteed in 2016 but I assume the Pats don't want to cut him anytime soon anyway.

varjao · Feb 11, 2015

Good old Connolly is kind of old and nothing spectacular, but he's a starter for years in one of the best teams in NFL and a team that is regularly on the top year after year. He's also a starter in the very recent World Champions. He can play center, guard and kickoff return.

I think he will get some offers. Between him and Wendell I would choose to keep Connolly, but I might be cheaper to keep Wendell and draft a left guard with our 1st or 2nd pick.

The big question here is about Fleming, a lot of decisions will depend on him being able to play guard or not.

Regarding the tackles I would keep both. I think Solder struggling badly this year might be related to an undisclosed injury or the fact that Mankins wasn't there. I'm not sure if there is such a thing like a chemistry between linemans.

BobDigital · Feb 11, 2015

At this point Solder has shown enough to make you comfortable hitching your wagon to him long term (assuming he has a good Guard beside him).

Sign Solder long term 6 yr 43M has been named and seems about right. (4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10M... something like that and renegotiate after the 4th year) You save about 3.5 this year.
Connolly - 3m (sign him)
Stork - cheap
Wendell - 2m
Vollmer - rework his deal a little to drop his cap to 6.5 but give him an extra year and a little more guaranteed (save 1.5m)

Cannon - 2.5
Kline - cheap
Flemming - cheap
draft pick - cheap

With some minor reworks your entire line could reasonably cost you only 20M which is not bad at all consider it is one of the better lines in the NFL.

mgteich · Feb 11, 2015

eom said:
well, I think cannon already got 1m of that, so it's more like he gets 3.5m this year in cash counting 2.5 against the cap.
if I'm reading that right.

is that outrageous?
I think being a possible 3rd tackle is what pimps his $$ up
can't have too many tackles -- ask the titans

edit: and you don't have to cut connolly -- he's fa

Cannon signed a deal for 2 years for $9M. $500K is contingent on playing time. You are focusing on the cap. I focus on the money. Cannon's 2 year extension is for up to $9M, almost all salary and roster bonuses.

When Cannon suits up for Game 1, he will have earned $4.5M, some of which was bonus money. He will have the opportunity to earn more. If he is active for each game and doesn't play at all, he will earn $4.75M this year.

To sum it up, even if Cannon rides the bench for the 2 years, he will earn $8.5M. Of course, many of us don't think that he will ride the bench at that level of compsenation.

tasmlab · Feb 11, 2015

I wouldn't mind if the entire draft was all OL and DL.

Brady can seemingly throw to anybody if he has time. Plus a 38 year old QB probably can't be hit too often. Perfect strangers can be pulled off the practice squad and rush for 200 yards if the line plays well.

patfanken · Feb 11, 2015

Some comments on the comments

1. I like this thread. Interesting topic, lots of speculation, not a lot of concrete info. In other words a lot can happen to an OL that led a team to a top 5 offense and a championship.

2. Most teams would be thrilled to have what the Pats had by the end of the season. We, of course, are New Englanders and are not.

3. There may be other teams who have an OT tandem that is as good as Solder and Volmer, but no one has a better pair. And if you add Cannon as a swing option, it is probably the best threesome in the league.

4. In my ideal world, Flemming moves to RG and beats him out Wendell. In the 2nd round, the Pats draft an OG that can come in and beat out Connolly. Finally Stork keeps improving and takes the next step into developing into a top 10 C.

5. My problem with that scenario is the lack of experience of the 3 interior linemen in that situation. Even on the OL, sometimes experience is more important than athletic talent. I know we all want to hurry up and improve the interior of the OL, but I worry about moving too fast

6. I still want an OG in the 2nd round, but I still think you do what you have to keep Connolly and Wendell as either starters, or quality depth. In an ideal world, but the end of the season both Flemming and the draft pick will be starters.

7. Another option would be to let Connolly and his cap number go, and look at the vet FA market for someone you believe would be a physical upgrade and would only cost a few million more to play LG. Iupati would be the ideal choice, but he's going to get top dollar, and that's out of the question. A while back in a similar discussion a few other OG's who's names escape me, sounded like decent possibilities.

8. Never underestimate or forget that guys like Devey and Kline could very well be the solution to all our problems, even while most of us consider them no worthy of discussion. So many no name offensive linemen have developed and made significant contributions, including the aforementioned Connolly and Wendell.

9.The first round belongs to the DL

eom · Feb 11, 2015

patfanken said:
7. Another option would be to let Connolly and his cap number go, and look at the vet FA market for someone you believe would be a physical upgrade and would only cost a few million more to play LG. Iupati would be the ideal choice, but he's going to get top dollar, and that's out of the question. A while back in a similar discussion a few other OG's who's names escape me, sounded like decent possibilities.

connolly is part of the vet fa market

patfanken · Feb 11, 2015

eom said:
connolly is part of the vet fa market

That's sloppily written on my part. I know Connolly's a FA. The point was, it's an option to go into the vet FA market t0 see if you can find a physical upgrade that would only cost you a few million more that what it would take to bring back Connoly.

Marinlik · Feb 11, 2015

BobDigital said:
I just want to throw out Cannon's cap hit is only 2.6 this year. The next year (something like 4.5) is not going to happen. That is merely a placeholder. The only bad thing about that he has about 1M guaranteed in 2016 but I assume the Pats don't want to cut him anytime soon anyway.

I am almost certain that his cap hit for 2015 is bigger than that because of the extra money he got in 2014, which removed some carry over.

mgteich · Feb 11, 2015

patfanken said:
Some comments on the comments

1. I like this thread. Interesting topic, lots of speculation, not a lot of concrete info. In other words a lot can happen to an OL that led a team to a top 5 offense and a championship.

2. Most teams would be thrilled to have what the Pats had by the end of the season. We, of course, are New Englanders and are not.

3. There may be other teams who have an OT tandem that is as good as Solder and Volmer, but no one has a better pair. And if you add Cannon as a swing option, it is probably the best threesome in the league.

4. In my ideal world, Flemming moves to RG and beats him out Wendell. In the 2nd round, the Pats draft an OG that can come in and beat out Connolly. Finally Stork keeps improving and takes the next step into developing into a top 10 C.

5. My problem with that scenario is the lack of experience of the 3 interior linemen in that situation. Even on the OL, sometimes experience is more important than athletic talent. I know we all want to hurry up and improve the interior of the OL, but I worry about moving too fast

6. I still want an OG in the 2nd round, but I still think you do what you have to keep Connolly and Wendell as either starters, or quality depth. In an ideal world, but the end of the season both Flemming and the draft pick will be starters.

7. Another option would be to let Connolly and his cap number go, and look at the vet FA market for someone you believe would be a physical upgrade and would only cost a few million more to play LG. Iupati would be the ideal choice, but he's going to get top dollar, and that's out of the question. A while back in a similar discussion a few other OG's who's names escape me, sounded like decent possibilities.

8. Never underestimate or forget that guys like Devey and Kline could very well be the solution to all our problems, even while most of us consider them no worthy of discussion. So many no name offensive linemen have developed and made significant contributions, including the aforementioned Connolly and Wendell.

9.The first round belongs to the DL

I agree with all your comments.

OT
I wish I were sure as you are that Belichick was paying Cannon $4M to be a backup. But let's agree that he is and that we have the best set of OT's in the NFL, including players who can be the 6th OL/TE, as both Fleming and Solder can.

OG
I agree that we should keep Connolly and Wendell, and that hopefully the top draft choice and Fleming can beat them out by year's end.

Finally, I agree that Belichick has the option to spend a bit more in free agency and sign an upgrade to Connolly who can start.

Brady_to_Moss · Feb 11, 2015

Speaking of OL...crazy brady is 12-0 in playoffs with no mankins....9-8 with

captain stone · Feb 11, 2015

Peachhead said:
The Cannon extension was a real headscratcher to me. I thought he sucked mightily at both RT and especially RG. But hopefully Googs has something in mind and it's just a matter of more time in the system for Cannon.

I believe it was LG where he sucked mightily, with which I agree.

captain stone · Feb 11, 2015

Marinlik said:
I am almost certain that his cap hit for 2015 is bigger than that because of the extra money he got in 2014, which removed some carry over.

Not according to OverTheCap:
http://overthecap.com/player/marcus-cannon/1228/

The way the deal appears to be structured, I'm guessing that Cannon is not on the Pats in 2016.

Ring 6 · Feb 11, 2015

mgteich said:
Cannon signed a deal for 2 years for $9M. $500K is contingent on playing time. You are focusing on the cap. I focus on the money. Cannon's 2 year extension is for up to $9M, almost all salary and roster bonuses.

When Cannon suits up for Game 1, he will have earned $4.5M, some of which was bonus money. He will have the opportunity to earn more. If he is active for each game and doesn't play at all, he will earn $4.75M this year.

To sum it up, even if Cannon rides the bench for the 2 years, he will earn $8.5M. Of course, many of us don't think that he will ride the bench at that level of compsenation.

your numbers are not correct

http://www.patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

mgteich · Feb 12, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
your numbers are not correct

http://www.patscap.com/cannon.html#cannon

The total compensation possible by Cannon under the contract extension was $9M. So, folks have called this a 2/$9M contract. I will presume that Cannon does NOT earn the playing time bonuses, but is active for every game (which he would be barring injury)

Which do you NOT agree with?

BONUS paid before the end of the 2015 season $3.200M
2015 base paid before the end of the 2015 season 1.200M
Weight bonus paid before the end of the 2015 season .100M
Bonus for being on the active roster .250M
Total earned by Feb 28, 2016 $4.750M
not earned .250M

Of course, if Cannon plays for us in 2016, he will earn up to $4M.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...4774132/breaking-down-marcus-cannons-contract

Let's Spend Some Time Looking At OL Money and Future

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