Bad Drafting=Mediocre Results

Joey007 · Sep 23, 2014

Ivan said:
Not a problem, just go to the Practice Squad.

Eh, not all of em get in there. Why is this not in there?

Deus Irae · Sep 23, 2014

AzPatsFan said:
DI,
You feel fine smarmily critiquing others but can't bear it if someone questions your semi-divine utterances.

Sorry, its a two way street...

Don't try flipping this onto me. Your post was folly.

Also, I've been saying that they needed to replace Connolly and Wendell, at least at their respective positions, for as long as anyone on here, so don't give me the "semi-devine utterances" stuff, either, since we don't even disagree on the need issue. It's good that they drafted OL. Calling what they've done at OL this year some kind of grand plan is ridiculous, though.

RayClay · Sep 23, 2014

Badger said:
The Pats last 2 drafts have produced almost no impact players other than Jamie Collins and almost no help to the current offense. A review of the last 2 drafts and their offensive/defensive snaps in yesterday's game..... 2014 - D.Easley (16), J.Garrapolo (0), B.Stork (15), J. White (Inactive), C.Fleming (12), J.Halapio (Cut), J.Thomas (Cut), J.Gallon (Cut). 2013 - J.Collins (20), A.Dobson (Inactive), L.Ryan (60), D.Harmon (12), J.Boyce (Cut), M.Buchanon (Inactive), S.Beauharnais (0).

While it is obviously hard for a young player to break into a talented lineup, the lack of impact players in the last 2 drafts is alarming. Pats have had 15 picks in the last 2 rounds to come up with a player to help Brady in the twilight of his career and not one was on the field yesterday. Just have to look at a guy like John Brown in Arizona or Brandin Cooks in New Orleans to see a fast game changer who can bring a quick Percy Harvin type player to an offense sorely lacking in firepower or a Jordan Matthews who brings some size and talent to Philly.

Hopefully guys like Easley and Garrapolo will be future impact players but that is far from a certainty at this point. Can't afford too many drafts in the NFL where you don't help stockpile your talent, especially when Brady isn't going to be around forever.

You consider the best record in football for over a decade mediocre? Do you not know what mediocre means?

Of course, for some posters, mediocrity is something they should aspire to.

PatFanCraig · Sep 23, 2014

OK time to chime in here, but before I get to the 800lb gorilla in the room, this best record over last 10 yes keeps coming up and used to defend Bills drafting. FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME BILLY HOMERS, HAVING THE BEST QB EVER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT!! Elite QBs can carry terrible teams to the playoffs but it takes talent around him to win a Superbowl. Manning carried terrible colts teams, another sorrya$$ drafting team the packers can't win a game without Rodgers, Breeds except for bounty distraction takes bad teams to playoffs every year,Favre carried terrible packer teams, when Ben plays all 16 games they go to the playoffs or are in the hunt. Are you finally getting it. Yes bill is a very good coach, he demands discipline and mistake free football and screams at his players and stomps and punishes players in practice for mistakes and penalties. Winning penalty and turnover war and a great qb with some talent around him gets plenty of wins. But they don't mean jack squat if the year ends in a buttkicking after a 14-2 season to another disciplined team that's more talented. As for his systems, have to give him some props for keeping opponents off balance and scheming open spots for the slot guy. However a good system is supposed to keep opponents off balance, not your players. Look st the offense right now. He needs a brilliant system that is more user friendly. Just because somebody couldn't find the ANY key doesn't mean they can't ever use computers. He traded away the Dez Bryant pick because of his system, REALLY!!?? Like he needs trickery to beat coverage and catch the ball. Bills WRs , bills WRs may need it but not REAL MODERN DAY WIDEOUTES! You mean to tell me Bill would scratch Dez Bryant MegaTron ,Brandon Marshall And Antonio Gates because they have trouble with his system, and have them sitting on the bench while Amendola Lafail,Edelman and Austin Collie Start because the are more intelligent within the syystem.LMFAOOOOOOOO. There could he a German genetically engineered specimen named Glandor Over 7' tall 350 lbs of muscle run a 4.2 and jump 50 inches and bill wouldn't want him. Remember the movie bedazzled, sure you guys do it had Liz Hurley. Bill wouldn't want the 8' dumb basketball jock because he wouldn't learn his complex schemes. Seriously adjusting to a scheme that still keeps opponents off balance yet user friendly for the players may might not be a bad idea.

Now the 800lb gorilla. Not the whole OLine because I'm confident Fleming and Stork will work out fine. Fleming could even be dominant and Stork although unproven in power department has enough to go with his good technique, besides he is a weight room warrior getting stronger. He played at 306 and is already almost 320. He, Cannon, Fleming might have some growing pains but will be acclimated by playoff time and will get better with every game. So I think we have the players on roster for the interior. The problem SOLDER. He is a Round 1 pick who should be ANCHORING THE LINE by now but isn't a good LT it seems. Even when he plays well its really just him not being terrible. I don't know what he does in the off season but he usually comes in every preseason looking stiff in hips with bad technique not fixes it for the most part by early season. He should be locking down the left side by now but is as bad as Devey and connolly. We are surprised but shouldn't be. He had a lot of bad tape against good competition in college. Cameron Jordon owned him like Mack did. Although he played TE his hips have always looked a little stiff to me. And like I said he needs more off session flexibility work and work on core strength and flexibility because that's where he is losing. He has good feet but hips and core look stiff and he is capable of bending at the knee but doesn't always do so. If he could anchor the left side, then the interior could do more double teams til Stork and Fleming get up to speed. Solder needs some serious work because he needs to show he can anchor Left tackle position or move him to the right side and find a new LT. I don't know why Veldheer was passed in 2010. He showed even better than Vollmer who worked fine. He would have allowed bill to use that Solder pick to trade up or whatever. I Also liked him and Anthony Collins in free agency due to Vollmers injury issues. Solder is the problem, if he were anchoring the line like bill thought he would by now, then the interior could be schemed better and even be very good once Fleming and Stork are up to speed

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
OK time to chime in here, but before I get to the 800lb gorilla in the room, this best record over last 10 yes keeps coming up and used to defend Bills drafting. FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME BILLY HOMERS, HAVING THE BEST QB EVER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THAT!! Elite QBs can carry terrible teams to the playoffs but it takes talent around him to win a Superbowl. Manning carried terrible colts teams, another sorrya$$ drafting team the packers can't win a game without Rodgers, Breeds except for bounty distraction takes bad teams to playoffs every year,Favre carried terrible packer teams, when Ben plays all 16 games they go to the playoffs or are in the hunt. Are you finally getting it. Yes bill is a very good coach, he demands discipline and mistake free football and screams at his players and stomps and punishes players in practice for mistakes and penalties. Winning penalty and turnover war and a great qb with some talent around him gets plenty of wins. But they don't mean jack squat if the year ends in a buttkicking after a 14-2 season to another disciplined team that's more talented. As for his systems, have to give him some props for keeping opponents off balance and scheming open spots for the slot guy. However a good system is supposed to keep opponents off balance, not your players. Look st the offense right now. He needs a brilliant system that is more user friendly. Just because somebody couldn't find the ANY key doesn't mean they can't ever use computers. He traded away the Dez Bryant pick because of his system, REALLY!!?? Like he needs trickery to beat coverage and catch the ball. Bills WRs , bills WRs may need it but not REAL MODERN DAY WIDEOUTES! You mean to tell me Bill would scratch Dez Bryant MegaTron ,Brandon Marshall And Antonio Gates because they have trouble with his system, and have them sitting on the bench while Amendola Lafail,Edelman and Austin Collie Start because the are more intelligent within the syystem.LMFAOOOOOOOO. There could he a German genetically engineered specimen named Glandor Over 7' tall 350 lbs of muscle run a 4.2 and jump 50 inches and bill wouldn't want him. Remember the movie bedazzled, sure you guys do it had Liz Hurley. Bill wouldn't want the 8' dumb basketball jock because he wouldn't learn his complex schemes. Seriously adjusting to a scheme that still keeps opponents off balance yet user friendly for the players may might not be a bad idea.

Now the 800lb gorilla. Not the whole OLine because I'm confident Fleming and Stork will work out fine. Fleming could even be dominant and Stork although unproven in power department has enough to go with his good technique, besides he is a weight room warrior getting stronger. He played at 306 and is already almost 320. He, Cannon, Fleming might have some growing pains but will be acclimated by playoff time and will get better with every game. So I think we have the players on roster for the interior. The problem SOLDER. He is a Round 1 pick who should be ANCHORING THE LINE by now but isn't a good LT it seems. Even when he plays well its really just him not being terrible. I don't know what he does in the off season but he usually comes in every preseason looking stiff in hips with bad technique not fixes it for the most part by early season. He should be locking down the left side by now but is as bad as Devey and connolly. We are surprised but shouldn't be. He had a lot of bad tape against good competition in college. Cameron Jordon owned him like Mack did. Although he played TE his hips have always looked a little stiff to me. And like I said he needs more off session flexibility work and work on core strength and flexibility because that's where he is losing. He has good feet but hips and core look stiff and he is capable of bending at the knee but doesn't always do so. If he could anchor the left side, then the interior could do more double teams til Stork and Fleming get up to speed. Solder needs some serious work because he needs to show he can anchor Left tackle position or move him to the right side and find a new LT. I don't know why Veldheer was passed in 2010. He showed even better than Vollmer who worked fine. He would have allowed bill to use that Solder pick to trade up or whatever. I Also liked him and Anthony Collins in free agency due to Vollmers injury issues. Solder is the problem, if he were anchoring the line like bill thought he would by now, then the interior could be schemed better and even be very good once Fleming and Stork are up to speed

Completely incoherent, as usual.

You should really go take an elementary english course for 3rd graders before posting again.

Here is an idea, go buy a pop up book, read a sentence then have a protein shake, then read another sentence and have another protein shake. Continue until you have had 1,000,000 protein shakes and then try posting again. I think you will see real results.

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

RayClay said:
You consider the best record in football for over a decade mediocre? Do you not know what mediocre means?

Of course, for some posters, mediocrity is something they should aspire to.

After trying to read the latest from Hans and Craig I would happily welcome even the most mediocre post. My frigging head hurts. I am however, pumped up.

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
OK time to chime in here, but before I get to the 800lb gorilla in the room, this best record over last 10 yes keeps coming up and used to defend Bills drafting.

Name the team that has won more games this century?

Now name the team with a better winning percentage this century?

Now name the team that has won more Division Championships this century?

Now name the team that has won more Conference Championships this century?

Now name the team that has won more Super Bowls this century?

Now tell us who was the person who put the teams together that leads all those categories?

Now name the person who drafted the quarterback who led them to all of those successes?

Now reflect on just how much of an idiot a person would have to be to think they know better than that person.

We already have one moron who actually claimed they could do a better job drafting than Belichick, don't make the mistake of adding yourself to that exclusive club of idiocy

PatFanCraig · Sep 23, 2014

Ivan said:
Completely incoherent, as usual.

You should really go take an elementary english course for 3rd graders before posting again.

Here is an idea, go buy a pop up book, read a sentence then have a protein shake, then read another sentence and have another protein shake. Continue until you have had 1,000,000 protein shakes and then try posting again. I think you will see real results.

Try getting a life sometime, what kind of a loser groupies a football coach. Go take care of your FANTASY league loser. Go fantasy yourself in a real war room one day Ivan. As for your idle, I don't have time to explain all his terrible drafting last decade

mgteich · Sep 23, 2014

Deus Irae said:
Call me when jettisoning your starting OLG just before the start of the season, taking a guy you've insisted is an OT and not only moving him to OG, but moving him to the OG side he hasn't practiced at all, and then plugging in a guy who stinks on ice at the ORG spot becomes a grand, thought out, strategy. I'll be getting your call........ never.

I agree with our frustration. The last 5 weeks at OL has made little sense.

1) Mankins was traded, with no replacement. It would seem that, at very least, if Mankins was to go, then a veteran should have been signed MONTHS ago to compete with the kids.

2) There was a true mystery in starting Cannon at LG (perhaps involving pictures of the coach). Cannon has NEVER played LG. It is questionable whether he is even a good RG. In any case, LG is a completely different position. There seemed to be no recognition that Solder might not do well without his crutch and without a capable LG next to him. There were TWO options ON THE TEAM that have played LG in the past. Why didn't Kline start? He was a starting LG a couple of times last year. And why didn't Connolly start at LG and Cannon at RG (with Wendell at center). All these options made and make more sense to me than having CANNON at LG.

3) Is Devey really a better RG starting the season than Wendell was a center? Obviously, everyone is waiting for Stork to develop, but DEVEY????

Personally, when Mankins was traded, my choices (with Stork still not ready) would were between

OPTION 1 - NEXT MAN UP (my choice)
Solder-Kline-Wendell-Connolly-Vollmer

OPTION 2
Solder-Connolly-Wendell-Cannon-Vollmer

OPTION 3
Solder-Kline-Connolly-Cannon-Vollmer

OPTION 4-6
The same as above with the OT's switched.

None of my six choices include Devey as a starter. Obviously, when Stork is ready to start, another 6 or so options are available. Again, none includes Devey as a starter.

PatFanCraig · Sep 23, 2014

And for the record billy bust didn't scout tom Brady, there was a time he listened to his scouts and was repeatedly told to take Brady. Also for the record, Brady should have went much higher, he was arguably the best QB that year. However teams didn't like that he had One year to grade him on. The other being he only played well that one year, teams thought it was a fluke since he sat behind all those other QBs. Out of time, have catching up to do now

rochrist · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
And for the record billy bust didn't scout tom Brady, there was a time he listened to his scouts and was repeatedly told to take Brady. Also for the record, Brady should have went much higher, he was arguably the best QB that year. However teams didn't like that he had One year to grade him on. The other being he only played well that one year, teams thought it was a fluke since he sat behind all those other QBs. Out of time, have catching up to do now

Did you actually LOOK at the photo of him at the combine or read any of the predraft scouting reports?

Bruins29 · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
As for your idle,

OhExaulted1 · Sep 23, 2014

For those of you wasting all your time looking in the rearveiw mirror, I hope this all you see.

PatFanCraig · Sep 23, 2014

I do like Brady, I have no reason to be jealous

convertedpatsfan · Sep 23, 2014

Obviously the OP has put zero thought into this post and I feel like I'm going to have to give the Herm Edward speech again but honestly, it's not about how many starts your rookies get or how many draft picks are non-busts. You play to win the game.

Hello???

You play. To win. The game.

The Seahawks have gotten very little from their past two draft classes as well. Probably the biggest impact guys so far have been last year's 2nd-round pick RB Christine Michael with 18 carries, and last year's 5th-round TE Luke Willson with 21 catches. But they're the world champs.

The 49ers have gotten 5 INTs from last year's 1st-rounder Eric Reid, and not much else (16 carries and 15 catches from their 5 drafted WRs and RBs).

The Broncos got a decent season out of Montee Ball but had to bench him late in the year due to fumble issues. You can throw in 2 sacks from Sylvester Williams. That's it.

So these 4 teams didn't get much out of their 2013 draft class. Yet all 4 were in the conference finals.

Meanwhile, the 2-14 Houston Texans got more out of their 2013 draft class than all 4 of the conference finalists. A 1,000-yard year from Hopkins, a starter in Swearinger, and 8 starts out of Ryan Griffin.

This doesn't mean any of the players drafted won't end up contributing more. But one year of evaluation is apparently all that matters to the OP, and in some instances, not even that.

So if you are going to keep score by immediate draft class success, then Houston is better than Seattle, San Fran, Denver, and obviously the Patriots. Give them the Lombardi now.

If we always have competent depth at positions so rookies aren't handed starting jobs out of desperation, but rather by earning it, then that's fine with me too. But Herm was right. You play to win the game.

Archeryaddict12 · Sep 23, 2014

convertedpatsfan said:
Obviously the OP has put zero thought into this post and I feel like I'm going to have to give the Herm Edward speech again but honestly, it's not about how many starts your rookies get or how many draft picks are non-busts. You play to win the game.

Hello???

You play. To win. The game.

The Seahawks have gotten very little from their past two draft classes as well. Probably the biggest impact guys so far have been last year's 2nd-round pick RB Christine Michael with 18 carries, and last year's 5th-round TE Luke Willson with 21 catches. But they're the world champs.

The 49ers have gotten 5 INTs from last year's 1st-rounder Eric Reid, and not much else (16 carries and 15 catches from their 5 drafted WRs and RBs).

The Broncos got a decent season out of Montee Ball but had to bench him late in the year due to fumble issues. You can throw in 2 sacks from Sylvester Williams. That's it.

So these 4 teams didn't get much out of their 2013 draft class. Yet all 4 were in the conference finals.

Meanwhile, the 2-14 Houston Texans got more out of their 2013 draft class than all 4 of the conference finalists. A 1,000-yard year from Hopkins, a starter in Swearinger, and 8 starts out of Ryan Griffin.

This doesn't mean any of the players drafted won't end up contributing more. But one year of evaluation is apparently all that matters to the OP, and in some instances, not even that.

So if you are going to keep score by immediate draft class success, then Houston is better than Seattle, San Fran, Denver, and obviously the Patriots. Give them the Lombardi now.

If we always have competent depth at positions so rookies aren't handed starting jobs out of desperation, but rather by earning it, then that's fine with me too. But Herm was right. You play to win the game.

As noted, many are trying to push their agendas and tend to ignore facts, which he many in this thread. But many will deny it because the facts mess with their agenda.

ausbacker · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
Try getting a life sometime, what kind of a loser groupies a football coach. Go take care of your FANTASY league loser. Go fantasy yourself in a real war room one day Ivan. As for your idle, I don't have time to explain all his terrible drafting last decade

I have to concur with the other posters @PatFanCraig. Punctuating your posts would make them far easier to properly read and respond too. As it stands, it's simply gloss over material.

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
I do like Brady, I have no reason to be jealous

Why would any Patriot fan be "jealous" of Brady.

Bruins29 · Sep 23, 2014

ausbacker said:
I have to concur with the other posters @PatFanCraig. Punctuating your posts would make them far easier to properly read and respond too. As it stands, it's simply gloss over material.

Its not only the punctuation that makes it gloss over material.

Ivan · Sep 23, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
And for the record billy bust didn't scout tom Brady, there was a time he listened to his scouts and was repeatedly told to take Brady. Also for the record, Brady should have went much higher, he was arguably the best QB that year. However teams didn't like that he had One year to grade him on. The other being he only played well that one year, teams thought it was a fluke since he sat behind all those other QBs. Out of time, have catching up to do now

You really have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Brady won the job his Jr. year and then had to win it again from the top blue chip prospect his senior year, and scouts had plenty of tape showing he was a clutch performer and winner they just didn't bite because they had the same idiotic metric centric view of players that you espouse every time you say something. He hadn't had enough protein shakes, and his vert was too low and body fat too high, no Crossfit win there baby, that's a couch potato maybe a few Boot Camps and Tough Mudders and he might make something of himself?

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