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Let's not get carried away on building D


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We had the 3rd highest scoring offense despite breaking in 2 rookies and having Gronk for like, 5 games or whatever and missing Vereen for roughly the same amount of time.

We've gone to the super bowl two times in a row now with the superior offense and inferior defense and come away watching Eli Manning's ****** face try to contemplate what all the stuff falling from the sky was until his handler came over and lead him to the special ed section of the stadium.

Please, let's get carried away on building the defense. Offense still doesn't win championships no matter how much the Fantasy Football/Madden generation might think that is the case.
You would think the penny would have dropped for some watching a 606 point scoring team score 8 points in the Super Bowl and look completely outmatched from the first moment.
 
On defense: DE, DT, S, CB (filled by Revis), and maybe a backup LB
On offense: TE, C/G

Since the draft is supposed to be deep at TE, I'm okay with the approach so far
 
If the Pats had a top defense all of last year and not just the first month or so, they would have gotten HFA and probably would have gone to the Super Bowl.

I think building the defense is a top priority. The draft is receiver heavy this year. Let's build there. They might be able to get Amaro or Nikolas in the second round and a WR with great potential in the 3rd or 4th round.
 
One of the best articles I ever read was Greg Cosell's take on the what the Seahawks did in FA last year, written almost exactly 1 year ago to the day:

Y! SPORTS

The article addresses both offense and defense, and discusses Cosell's views on what is likely to be the most successful approach in the current era. I'll focus on the defensive part, though the entire article is well worth a read:

In a passing league, what must you do? You must rush the quarterback, and you must cover receivers. That’s the Cliff's Notes version. The devil is always in the details. What the Seahawks have done is draft and sign players that give them tremendous pass rush versatility -- and just as important, disruption on the outside versus wide receivers.

Go back a year to the 2012 NFL draft. All we heard when Seattle selected Bruce Irvin with the 15th overall pick in the first round was, “what a reach.” Those same “experts” would then tell you in the next breath that rushing the quarterback is the most important defensive element in today’s NFL. And by the way, Irvin played 46 percent of the snaps in his rookie season, including the playoffs, recording 11 sacks. But there’s a much larger point at work here. It’s how you scheme pass rush pressure. With Irvin, a returning Chris Clemons, and newly signed Cliff Avril, the Seahawks have three players who can align anywhere in their nickel sub-package. They all have what we call “Joker” ability, the talent to line up in either 3-point or 2-point stances and rush from different positions and angles.

What you have is an ideal mix of physical athleticism, and multiple schemes. It’s the new age pressure concepts in the NFL. It’s very difficult to line up with four defensive linemen in conventional positions, and create consistent pressure on the quarterback.
Not only is it difficult to find four players who can do that, it’s tactically easier for the offense to protect against those more basic fronts. What defenses are trying to accomplish is pass protection indecision based on front alignments, coupled with athletic mismatches. The Seahawks are well positioned to do that with their personnel.

Let’s not forget Bennett. In Tampa last season, he played defensive end in the base 4-3, and then moved inside to tackle in the nickel and dime sub-packages. His pass rush quickness was not only a problem for offensive guards, it allowed him to be effective with stunts, another tactic that creates hesitation and confusion in pass protection schemes. The bottom line is this: the Seahawks have constructed a multi-dimensional combination of talent with speed, athleticism, and position and scheme versatility. That’s what’s necessary in the NFL of 2013 and beyond.

The picture is not complete, however. The Seahawks made a commitment to big, physical corners, players who were not held in the same high value around the league because they did not possess what has long been regarded as the necessary attributes of lateral quickness, dynamic change of direction and timed speed. Richard Sherman was a former wide receiver at Stanford who switched to corner his final two years. The Seahawks selected the 6’3” Sherman in the fifth round of the 2011 draft. He is arguably the best cornerback in the NFL entering the 2013 season. 6’4” Brandon Browner was undrafted out of Oregon State in 2005; again, he was seen as too slow and not quick enough to play NFL corner. The Seahawks signed him as a free agent after 4 seasons with the Calgary Stampeders of the Canadian Football League.

Gus Bradley, the Seahawks defensive coordinator the last four seasons before becoming the Jacksonville Jaguars' head coach in January, summed it up best. He once said, “Whatever scheme you play, you’ve got to create disruption at the perimeter. With Sherman and Browner, the Seahawks do that more consistently and better than any team in the NFL. Disruption outside with taller, more aggressive corners; pass rush flexibility and adaptability with athletic and versatile hybrids who can align all over.

That’s the template for defensive success in a passing league.

Y! SPORTS

Assuming the Browner signing goes through, the Pats will be in a position to create "disruption at the perimeter" for the first time since we had Rodney and Ty in 2003-2004. And for those saying that it doesn't make sense to "copy Seattle", go look at the 2001 SB against the Rams. The Pats created "disruption at the perimeter" against the Rams and threw them off their rhythm for the entire game, shutting down the "greatest show on turf". It's not dissimilar from what we saw Seattle do against Denver 6+ weeks ago.

Mike Haynes - THAT Mike Haynes, the HOF CB and greatest Pats' corner of all time - recently talked about the Seattle secondary, comparing it with the old Raiders' secondary that dominated Washington in the 1983 SB. He emphasized the need for synergy between the secondary and the front 7, and the ability to create what Cosell terms "disruption at the perimeter":

Haynes elaborated on that importance of "hours of intense studying and constant communication" with talented pass rushers and rangy linebackers. Understanding his own defense and the likelihood of the opponent's intentions allowed him to play with confidence and dictated his technique choice.

"Using a myriad of different pre- and post-snap techniques," Haynes continued, "a DB can lessen a receiver's confidence, cause confusion and challenge his decision-making ability."

Mike Haynes outlines Seattle Seahawks' dominance - NFL.com

It would be a huge mistake to not complete the job, IMO. We need to add more speed at the second level (it is encouraging that the Pats had Wesley Woodyard in for a visit, and showed interest in Dakoda Watson; they were also reportedly very interested in Kevin Pierre-Louis at the BC Pro Day recently) and more disruptiveness up front. As Cosell notes, it's very hard to generate consistent pressure with a 4 man front, so you need to have multiple players capable of coming from different angles and roles, and keep offenses off balance.

Disruption = production. If the Pats close on Browner, we have disruption at the perimeter. Now we need to get it up front.

Please, let's get "carried away".
 
Who have the Pats signed on D to prompt this silly thread ?

Just one guy(Revis) so far as I can see.
 
I'd love if Patriots sign :

Evan Dietrich-Smith, C, Packers. Age: 28.
I'd love if they drafted a center in the first round.
 
For balance, we need to find some offensive linemen and need to add a solid TE. Gronkowski is still out injured, which effectively means we have only Hoomanawanui at the position.
 
Don't forget Matt Mulligan and DJ Williams. I actually think they need two when Gronk gets hurt again next year. That way Hooman is still a #3 TE.
 
I'd love if they drafted a center in the first round.

I wouldn't - there's no center remotely worth taking that high in this draft. But otherwise, I'd agree with you.
 
The only thing ill comment on this thread is the following..

im just very glad we are signing CB's via Free Agency so we don't waste another top pick on a BUST DB....

lets do the same for WR
 
"Let's not get carried away on building D."??? :eek:

Good Lord, man.

Yeah, let's not get carried away on winning Championships. Who needs that? :rolleyes:
 
I hope we fall off a cliff building the defense.
 
This seems to be the drafnik mentality on steroids. We have a major need and we won't have any problem bringing in an instant contributor on Day 3?

Forgive me if I don't count on Day 3 players to be instant contributors except on special teams and the occasional offensive lineman.

For me, Day 3 is where we find future contributors.

Even the last half of Day 1 or Day 2 are a crapshoot with regard to finding immediate help.

My understanding of Belichick's planning is that we go into the draft NOT needing to find current year help with perhaps the exception of one position.

While it is possible to plan to meet the HUGE tight end need in the 3rd round and later, my preference is to choose two tight ends, one early and one later.

My "blueprint" for the Offense:

There is TONS of day 3 talent in this draft who can come in and IMMEDIATELY be effective - Trey Millard, Gator Hospkins, Trey Bruton, Joe Don Duncan, Richard Rodgers, Jake Murphy. Maybe even take a flyer on Colt Lyerla (very unlikely), or a TE conversion of Larry Webster or Logan Thomas.
 
Right now the Pats have the best offensive threat in the game (Gronk) and a guy who is going to stretch the field (Dobson) but for this to happen others must be added and nothing has changed rule or style wise in this league since the 2 TE set of Gronk and Hernandez so it will DEFINITELY work.

Again i will repeat, get one of the top TE's in this draft and watch this offense FLOURISH like it was before that POS went and killed someone.

I'd rather get another WR (whether that's Edelman or Smith or someone else) than a TE.

We've had a 2 TE set in recent years because we had two awesome TEs. If we can get someone who will be like Hernandez, I'd be all for it. But if another TE is at the Hoomanawanui level, I'd rather we have 3 WRs out there (2 wide, one slot) than clog up the middle with 2 TEs (one that can't catch) and 1 slot
 
This seems to be the drafnik mentality on steroids. We have a major need and we won't have any problem bringing in an instant contributor on Day 3?

Forgive me if I don't count on Day 3 players to be instant contributors except on special teams and the occasional offensive lineman.

For me, Day 3 is where we find future contributors.

Even the last half of Day 1 or Day 2 are a crapshoot with regard to finding immediate help.

My understanding of Belichick's planning is that we go into the draft NOT needing to find current year help with perhaps the exception of one position.

While it is possible to plan to meet the HUGE tight end need in the 3rd round and later, my preference is to choose two tight ends, one early and one later.

Not really. First, this is a deep, deep draft. Second, we've had plenty of day 3 picks come in right away and contribute. Aaron Hernandez, Alfonzo Dennard, Dan Koppen (15 games started as a rookie 5th round pick), Asante Samuel. Third, we aren't looking for an immediate impact player, but for quality depth at the position. We can find that day 3.

There's no need to reach for a TE day 1 or 2. If the right ones are available in the right range fine, but I don't buy the "we HAVE to take a TE early" line of thought.
 
OFFENSE

Yes, most focus on the obvious need to sign a free agent wide receiver and and secure a TE or two (at least one high in the draft). These will happen whether we whine or not.

But many posters do discuss the need at interior line, especially for the future. Many think that the default is Connolly at center and Cannon competing with a free agent acquisition at guard plus drafting a center in the 3rd. I'm not sure that this is such a bad plan. I know that you and I would have drafted a center in the first or second more than once in the past few years.

Belichick is actively looking for an interior lineman. Personally, I would not be surprised to see Wendell come back.

DEFENSE
The defense needs to account for Kelly.
I agree with the needs at DE and LB. Those are major needs.
We also need help at strong safety. Some seem to think that Browner is the answer.
We also need a 5th corner. Some seem to think that Browner is the answer.

:eat1:

It's remarkable how many posts about offensive needs neglect the big, gaping hole at center. And on defense, the Pats still have 3 major needs:

- A DT who the defense actually has to account for
- A 3rd DE (Jones & Ninkovich never leave the field)
- A 4th LB (That cupboard is seriously bare)
 
I agree that we have had late picks (and EDFA's) that have contributed. I agree that this is a deep draft and that we should likely trade down, although there may be a DT or TE that will tempt Belichick.

Dennard is a fine example. However, just because we secured a starting corner in the 7th is not a reason to count on that happening. Koppen was a GREAT pick; as I said occasionally we expect a Day 3 pick to start in the interior OL.

If we do not like the early TE's (a perfectly fine position), then I suggest that we should be signing a veteran free agent.

Where we differ is that you seem to be looking for future depth at TE. I think that we need a TE who will be a contributor in 2014, especially in any game that Gronk is not available. We need to avoid expecting to be effective with Hooman and a scrub at TE.

Not really. First, this is a deep, deep draft. Second, we've had plenty of day 3 picks come in right away and contribute. Aaron Hernandez, Alfonzo Dennard, Dan Koppen (15 games started as a rookie 5th round pick), Asante Samuel. Third, we aren't looking for an immediate impact player, but for quality depth at the position. We can find that day 3.

There's no need to reach for a TE day 1 or 2. If the right ones are available in the right range fine, but I don't buy the "we HAVE to take a TE early" line of thought.
 
Where we differ is that you seem to be looking for future depth at TE. I think that we need a TE who will be a contributor in 2014, especially in any game that Gronk is not available. We need to avoid expecting to be effective with Hooman and a scrub at TE.

I'm not sure you can count on Amaro, ASJ or Niklas to be what you want, any more than you could count on Trey Millard, Gator Hoskins, Crocket Gillmore or Jake Murphy. There aren't any guarantees. I would be fine picking up one of those first 3 guys at the right value, but I wouldn't reach under the assumption that they will be immediate starter-level contributors.
 
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