Let's not get carried away on building D

[Kontradiction]

Defense wins championships...Lets.

It plays a big hand in it, but you still need a competent offense to go all the way. We can all asume that at least one of the three rookie receivers is going to make the second year leap, so there's that. But Edelman is visiting SF as we speak and they would be a natural landing spot for him so I think he's gone. They can honor Big Vince's request, cut him, and sign James Jones to improve the WR position. After that, we're free to target interior OL and TE in what is a deep draft for both positions. If the team gets Browner and has a slam dunk of a draft, they are in excellent position to represent the AFC.

 

[mayoclinic]

Of course we all want Browner to sign and i think we really need him even though we have the best corner in the game already because the physicality and size he will bring is something alot of players don't have naturally.

However we are all getting too obsessed with this Seahawks method of winning it and acting like we don't have the best QB in the game that doesn't require us to be as good as that D........ and the man like so many times before has hardly any weapons!!

Technically right now Edelman is not even a Patriots player anymore so who is Tom throwing to next year? Gronk and Dobson are the only dudes on that roster that fill me with confidence where i can say 'they'll make the plays and the difference'. After that though there is virtually nobody.

The tactic pre free agency should not change 1 bit, GET THAT BIG TIME TIGHT END IN ROUND 1. People keep talking about Louis Nix and yeah that's fine and all but really we should be looking at a guy that can get that passing game to where it's required. There is nothing wrong with the run game because i'm rolling all day with Ridley and Vereen and whatever jag wants to run 3rd man behind them so all we need now are receiver pieces around Brady to go with what's beginning to look like a stout playoff defense.

We can't pass up on the top tight ends in the draft this year because the glaring need is too big, if someone like Hooman is the go to guy after Gronk then you can pretty much forget about doing anything big in the passing game.

It's time to go all in and get the rings before that dreaded QB change takes place. Do people remember Slater failing miserably at pretending to be a deep threat against Denver? That's all we have right now unless we get those kind of chips that Elway got for Peyton.

My "blueprint" for the Offense:

1. Build a defense that can get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down, limit red zone effectiveness, and generate turnovers. An offense's best friend is a good defense. I'm thrilled with the moves on defense so far, and wouldn't stop.

2. Strengthen the interior OL. I couldn't care less about getting Brady more "weapons". He has plenty. What he needs is adequate protection to use them - especially protection up the middle.

3. Strengthen the TE position. I don't think there is a TE worth taking in the 1st round other than possibly Eric Ebron, who will be long gone. But I don't think we need to, either. There is TONS of day 3 talent in this draft who can come in and IMMEDIATELY be effective - Trey Millard, Gator Hospkins, Trey Bruton, Joe Don Duncan, Richard Rodgers, Jake Murphy. Maybe even take a flyer on Colt Lyerla (very unlikely), or a TE conversion of Larry Webster or Logan Thomas.

 

[MassPats38]

The Pats are not copycats to Seattle as the OP seems to imply. They have added defensive pieces every year, some with top of the market deals. You don't need a history lesson to see that. Roosevelt Colvin in 2003. Adalius Thomas in 2007. The fact these transactions may not turn out as planned in building a great D does not suggest the Pats are now trying to imitate the flavor of the week from the prior year.

The Pats, through the draft and free agency, build a 53-man roster: offense, defense and special teams. It is a bit premature to conclude that Pats have changed what they do and are now shifting to defense first at the expense of everything else because Seattle had a good defense and won a title. By my count, that is 1 title for Seattle and last year is last year.

Talib left and Revis, a better option, arrived. I wouldn't read much more into that deal.

 

[zipster9]

If your draft priority was always going to be offense, shouldn't you be thrilled with the defensive-minded free agency period? The two phases are complementary. Assuming Browner signs to play safety, they've shored up 2 major roster holes on defense, giving them far more flexibility to go after offensive playmakers.

But as for "GET THAT BIG TIME TIGHT END IN ROUND 1" -- can you name a name? IMO there's very little chance a "BIG TIME" TE will be available at #29.

Niklas, TE --> 2nd round. (I like him better than Amaro, better hands)

Most likely Patriots will trade their 1st rounder...

 

[zipster9]

My "blueprint" for the Offense:

1. Build a defense that can get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down, limit red zone effectiveness, and generate turnovers. An offense's best friend is a good offense. I'm thrilled with the moves on defense so far, and wouldn't stop.

2. Strengthen the interior OL. I couldn't care less about getting Brady more "weapons". He has plenty. What he needs is adequate protection to use them - especially protection up the middle.

3. Strengthen the TE position. I don't think there is a TE worth taking in the 1st round other than possibly Eric Ebron, who will be long gone. But I don't think we need to, either. There is TONS of day 3 talent in this draft who can come in and IMMEDIATELY be effective - Trey Millard, Gator Hospkins, Trey Bruton, Joe Don Duncan, Richard Rodgers, Jake Murphy. Maybe even take a flyer on Colt Lyerla (very unlikely), or a TE conversion of Larry Webster or Logan Thomas.

Definitely #2, as we have seen, our OL gets pushed back against good DL. I still think we need an anchor Center. Wendell or Connolly just won't do...

 

[patchick]

My "blueprint" for the Offense:

1. Build a defense that can get the opposing offense off the field on 3rd down, limit red zone effectiveness, and generate turnovers. An offense's best friend is a good offense. I'm thrilled with the moves on defense so far, and wouldn't stop.

2. Strengthen the interior OL. I couldn't care less about getting Brady more "weapons". He has plenty. What he needs is adequate protection to use them - especially protection up the middle.

3. Strengthen the TE position. I don't think there is a TE worth taking in the 1st round other than possibly Eric Ebron, who will be long gone. But I don't think we need to, either. There is TONS of day 3 talent in this draft who can come in and IMMEDIATELY be effective - Trey Millard, Gator Hospkins, Trey Bruton, Joe Don Duncan, Richard Rodgers, Jake Murphy. Maybe even take a flyer on Colt Lyerla (very unlikely), or a TE conversion of Larry Webster or Logan Thomas.

:eat1:

It's remarkable how many posts about offensive needs neglect the big, gaping hole at center. And on defense, the Pats still have 3 major needs:

- A DT who the defense actually has to account for
- A 3rd DE (Jones & Ninkovich never leave the field)
- A 4th LB (That cupboard is seriously bare)

 

[CISGS]

You guys do realise that when Gronkowski came back and was healthy we were the #2 offense in the league during that span. IF he can stay healthy this year and expected Jumps for Dobson/Boyce/Thompkins. and returning Edelman or another WR we will be top 5 again for sure.


besides, Browner is not going to take up much cap-space. Revis only counts for 7million. and if we cut Wilfork we will have 18million in space to spend on the passing game.

You realize we had Edelman and that Thompkins faded like a pair of worn out jeans as the season went on. He can't get open.

 

[Tunescribe]

enough with the Brady needs weapons BS.

Brady doesn't need weapons, Brady needs less weight on his shoulders. The Defense takes some of that weight off now.

the only weapons that would really boost the offense are the weapons that are priced out of our available cap range. so short of trading for CJ, JG, LF, at reciever its not going to happen.

Move amendola to the slot, Dobson and Thompkins/boyce on the sides, and were golden so long as gronk can stay in one piece while LB's dive at his knee on every play hoping to end his season

You're in the right ballpark. The primary need on offense is interior line, then tight end.

Sorry fantasy footballers/video gamers, but WR is pretty far down the list of apparent priorities behind C/G, TE, DL, SS and LB.

 

[English Patriot]

If your draft priority was always going to be offense, shouldn't you be thrilled with the defensive-minded free agency period? The two phases are complementary. Assuming Browner signs to play safety, they've shored up 2 major roster holes on defense, giving them far more flexibility to go after offensive playmakers.

But as for "GET THAT BIG TIME TIGHT END IN ROUND 1" -- can you name a name? IMO there's very little chance a "BIG TIME" TE will be available at #29.

I was actually thrilled with this free agency and it is everything i wanted, defense. So that's why it annoys me when i hear reports and people commenting about taking Louis Nix when it is not what is needed as bad as TE.

Trust me as a watcher of college football, the 4 guys the media are lauding at TE this year are definitely worth a 1st round pick and would be big time in an offense containing Brady, Gronk and Dobson.

 

[PP2]

:eat1:
- A DT who the defense actually has to account for

Don't you mean offense?

Otherwise, I agree- center is a big issue. Would rather we draft high in OL.

 

[zipster9]

You're in the right ballpark. The primary need on offense is interior line, then tight end.

Sorry fantasy footballers/video gamers, but WR is pretty far down the list of apparent priorities behind C/G, TE, DL, SS and LB.

I'd love if Patriots sign :

Evan Dietrich-Smith, C, Packers. Age: 28.

 

[JackBauer]

You realize we had Edelman and that Thompkins faded like a pair of worn out jeans as the season went on. He can't get open.

He faded because of a hip injury.

 

[patchick]

I was actually thrilled with this free agency and it is everything i wanted, defense. So that's why it annoys me when i hear reports and people commenting about taking Louis Nix when it is not what is needed as bad as TE.

I get annoyed about the constant mocking of Nix to the Patriots too, but for a totally different reason. It seems to me a lazy matching of "positional need list" to "position player listed at," without looking at scheme fit at all.

IMO Nix would be best as a 3-4 NT, and that's no longer the Patriots' game.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Great thread

 

[Nunchucks]

Focus on running the ball and taking advantage of play-action, WRs are overrated. Build bad-arse defense, that is what tone-setting is all about.

 

[mayoclinic]

:eat1:

It's remarkable how many posts about offensive needs neglect the big, gaping hole at center. And on defense, the Pats still have 3 major needs:

- A DT who the defense actually has to account for
- A 3rd DE (Jones & Ninkovich never leave the field)
- A 4th LB (That cupboard is seriously bare)

Exactly. Assuming the Browner deal goes through, I would:

1. Make a run at Alex Mack. Brady needs security, not a security blanket. He's depended so much on dumping the ball off to guys like Welker and Edelman because we haven't had enough protection up the middle. Indy spent their money elsewhere signed Phil Costa, Baltimore paid big money to Eugene Monroe and doesn't have much cap space. I'd take advantage of Wilfork's request to put together an offer sheet for Mack. Say something close to 5 years / $40M with $18-20M guaranteed. Cleveland has 5 days to match. If they don't, you give Wilfork his wish and cut him, saving $7.5-8M in cap space, which will more than cover the 1st year on Mack's deal. IMO, that helps our offense MUCH more than any WR out there.

2. I've already discussed my thoughts on the defense elsewhere in gaudy detail. I'd go after a "DT who the defense actually has to account for" in the draft - trade up for Aaron Donald, or get Ra'Shede Hageman or Dominique Easley. I'd also go after a 4th LB and maybe a 5th (Wesley Woodyard would be a good signing; Jordan Tripp or Christian Jones in the draft would be stellar). And I've been arguing for a rotational DE for a while. My favorites (Lamarr Houston and Mike Neal) are off the board, but Corey Wootton would be a great signing, and there are other options as well.

I wouldn't worry about WR for now. Let Edelman walk if he gets better money elsewhere. Otherwise, when he comes back to the table, maybe he'll be in a different frame of mind, but to my mind, he's a complementary piece, not a foundational piece. I'd rather have James Jones for less money, personally. But regardless, the offensive "skill players" are pieces to fill in once the framework is complete, not to dictate the plan.

 

[patchick]

Don't you mean offense?

I like to be prepared for every situation, including defense-vs.-defense battles.

Um, yeah, offense then.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Improving the D solves our problems in more ways than one. The first is obvious. The other not so much. If you look at our offensive failures in the big playoff losses since 2007, many have been a combination of poor execution offensively COMBINED with our defense not being able to get off the field or force turnovers. If Brady's sitting on the sidelines and not getting any help from the D in terms of field position/momentum, it makes it that much harder to establish his rhythm.

As far as targets go, hmm let's see. Rob Gronkowski, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez, Shane Vereen, Dante Stallworth (not a superstar here but this was one of those 'impact signings' some people are craving at WR), Kevin Faulk one of the most clutch 3rd down backs in history. I'd say he's had enough targets over the years and that didn't stop the offense from failing in big spots. Compare those names to Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Patten, Christian Fauria, David Givens, Kevin Faulk. 2001-2004 we were never stacked with targets, yet sufficient targets to complement our great defense. IMO the priorities should be fixing our problems on D and beefing up the interior of our OL, keep Brady upright and get him the ball back = the best chance for an efficient output on both sides = better shot at more Lombardi's.

As much as the rules have changed, many of the recent champions - Seahawks, Ravens, Giants 2x, Steelers 2x were not known for their strength being a high flying pass attack. The Colts in 2006 as good as they were passing the ball won in the playoffs because of their improved defense. Whereas some of the best pass attacks, including some historically great units like '04 Colts, '07 Pats, '11 Packers/Patriots, '13 Broncos have all failed to win the big one.

 

[fnordcircle]

We had the 3rd highest scoring offense despite breaking in 2 rookies and having Gronk for like, 5 games or whatever and missing Vereen for roughly the same amount of time.

We've gone to the super bowl two times in a row now with the superior offense and inferior defense and come away watching Eli Manning's ****** face try to contemplate what all the stuff falling from the sky was until his handler came over and lead him to the special ed section of the stadium.

Please, let's get carried away on building the defense. Offense still doesn't win championships no matter how much the Fantasy Football/Madden generation might think that is the case.

 

[JackBauer]

On topic, I actually very much home BB gets carried away on building the defense.