OT: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

HarkDawg said:

he is not ruined... just rushed....


I wish he was, but.... BRADY had time to grow as player and had a role as a bench player(behind) MR. I wear SNOWSHOES while moving in the pocket (Drew Bledsoe)..... just like Matt Cassell did so w/ a Starting BRADY he had time to grow in his future role...... He practiced and not have a starting role immediately. Not until TFB went down did we see a Cassell emerge out of???

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The amount of failure that I detailed above suggests that once you are rushed, you are ruined. Fans seem to think that quarterbacks will simply jump from step to step, progressively getting better. Facts show that once a quarterback tanks in his rookie year, he almost never recovers from it.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Sanchez is Matt Leinart Jr. Doesn't have a plus arm but tries to make throws like he has one. Is quick and efficient when his first reads are open but is painfully slow when he has to move to secondary reads.

He can improve on most of this but it will take a lot of hard work and dedication. We'll see if he is willing to do that but I wouldn't assume he is. His arm doesn't look like it will ever be strong enough to win December/January games in the Northeast, which is why I thought selecting him was bizarre.

The ironic thing is I would grade out his potential ceiling as Chad Pennington. Which isn't bad in my mind but that thought is enough to land half of NY in a hospital.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

The amount of failure that I detailed above suggests that once you are rushed, you are ruined. Fans seem to think that quarterbacks will simply jump from step to step, progressively getting better. Facts show that once a quarterback tanks in his rookie year, he almost never recovers from it.

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I hope you are right man..... I would love the "Sanchize" to be another catastrophe pick for the J E T S JETS JETS JETS

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

This goes to show you of how RARE it is to have guys like Flacco and Ryan shine as a starting rookie QB in the NFL,Most rookie QBs struggle as Peyton Manning is a true example of that.

If BB were coaching the Jets I think he would have started Klemens at QB and slowly brought along Sanchez if the team struggled by mid season- I think with Kellen as the QB in week 1 until now,this team would have been in better position than they are now.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Metaphors said:

Sanchez is Matt Leinart Jr. Doesn't have a plus arm but tries to make throws like he has one. Is quick and efficient when his first reads are open but is painfully slow when he has to move to secondary reads.

He can improve on most of this but it will take a lot of hard work and dedication. We'll see if he is willing to do that but I wouldn't assume he is. His arm doesn't look like it will ever be strong enough to win December/January games in the Northeast, which is why I thought selecting him was bizarre.

The ironic thing is I would grade out his potential ceiling as Chad Pennington. Which isn't bad in my mind but that thought is enough to land half of NY in a hospital.

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I still think Leinhart will be a pretty good QB given some time to play more.
If Warner continues to take hits like he did yesterday it may be sooner than Matt thinks before he is starter.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

OK, so sanchez sucks...

what about stafford? the kid is playing amazingly well, its just that hes in the worst team in the NFL

and he was injured....ill say it riht now...from the recent crops of young QB's, i like stafford the best

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

As a side question, what did the Jets give up in draft picks to get Sanchez?

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

This goes to show you of how RARE it is to have guys like Flacco and Ryan shine as a starting rookie QB in the NFL,Most rookie QBs struggle as Peyton Manning is a true example of that.

If BB were coaching the Jets I think he would have started Klemens at QB and slowly brought along Sanchez if the team struggled by mid season- I think with Kellen as the QB in week 1 until now,this team would have been in better position than they are now.

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Exactly what I was trying to state above, and where the overwhelming evidence points. Flacco and Ryan's success probably ruined the careers of Sanchez and Stafford. F and R are two statistical anomalies that duped the league into believing the "throw the rookie in there and hope it sticks" motto.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

ALP said:

OK, so sanchez sucks...

what about stafford? the kid is playing amazingly well, its just that hes in the worst team in the NFL

and he was injured....ill say it riht now...from the recent crops of young QB's, i like stafford the best

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Agreed- not sure why people are jumping on Stafford. He's had a rough week or 2, but on the whole the Lions have to be encouraged with what he's shown them.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Nice post. Totally see where you are coming from. Just to add some more to it:

Despite what some believe, Mark Sanchez was never ready for the NFL. Here is why. He was only a true starter at USC for one year (he should have stayed) and while he had a good statistical year, it's not enough to judge what a true players potential is (see: Mike Williams of USC or JaMarcus Russell).

His hype was way overblown and the Jets wanted to capitalize on it. Simple as that. I find it odd that they defend Sanchez while not realizing that the only reason he is starting is because he is a marketable QB. They could have one of two situations which would be more positive then Sanchez starting right now:

A.) Signed Jeff Garcia and had Sanchez on the bench learning the playbook.

B.) Signed Jeff Garcia, instead of drafting Sanchez, they could have drafted Michael Oher to help their offensive line woes or Percy Harvin with the 17th pick in the draft or even James Laurinaitis or Clay Matthews with that pick. Then with the second round pick they gave away to get Sanchez, they could have gotten Sean Smith (who could have helped Revis tremendously this year in the secondary) or Sherrod Martin, Fili Moala who was touted as the best DT in the draft and could always help after the annual Kris Jenkins injury and they wasted a pick on Shonn Greene when they already have two capable backs in Jones and Washington. Plus, the way things are going for them, they could have a Top 15 pick in the draft and could easily get Dwyer, Best, or Spiller as a RB.

The second one is interesting because had they done that instead of mortgaging their future on Sanchez, they would have had a better shot at drafting a more accomplished QB in 2010 (Tebow, Locker, Clausen if he decides to enter, etc.). Or they could continue to build their defense and looks for a top WR prospect (Marcus Shipley).

But by not doing this and going with Sanchez, they don't have these options anymore. Sanchez was thrown to the wolves to start building his brand but the Jets did not (or refused to) realize that Sanchez was not the answer right now and you practically ruined his credibility. Sanchez was never ready for the NY media as well who are savages and will tear you up once you start failing.

Now they have no players worth trading for picks (only Washington and Revis are intriguing) or for other players, they have a defense which will be disastrous next season, a wide receivers corps which is barely reaching mediocre-average on a regular basis (thanks only to Cotchery), an offensive line that is getting progressively worse as time goes on, an offensive coordinator who is too smart for his own good, a Head Coach regressing and who is only good for soundbytes, and a rookie QB who's exaggerated confidence is now hurt by this whole situation.

You can wait three years Jets fans and see if Sanchez by that will have worked out or not, but you basically gave up way, WAY too much for this guy. But that's who the Jets are. Can't change that.

On another note, that 2011 pick for the Patriots continues to interest me more and more.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Sanchez is hosed...
Came out too early, too inexperienced at the college level. Result, no foundation of solid decision making to build on. A talented athelete who can on occasion "make things happen" tries just that ploy too many times with the result at the more disciplined and much faster pro level he gets punked by an INT. The lack of coaching cultural continuity in the Jets org will kill him. Next year will absolutely see a new offensive coordinator to preserve Ryan's job. Year after that will be a new HC with another clean sweep of the coaching ranks.

Many tried and true bleed green Jets fans thought that Ainge beat out Sanchez in training camp. Had it been Clemens that woulda been great as the coach would have had cover to start Clemens and bring the kid along more slowly as the 'hero' to save the season. But Noooooo! Ryan believed his own bluster and started Sanchez. Once the kid was unfortunate to start 3-0, expectations went through the roof. Fans whose hopes were raised and then crushed will be slow to exhibit the needed patience to see if he's really an NFL starter caliber. Point being he's got a much tougher path to that goal than could have been.

Hey, at least Kevin O'Connell is still available on the roster!

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Synovia said:

Still doesn't prove anything. Correlation does not equal correlation, especially when there are contrary examples.

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Actually, I'm fairly certain that correlation does equal correlation

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

I'm not certain that Sanchez is ruined yet, although I do believe that he will be, since nobody in the Jets organization has the competence to properly develop him anywhere, let alone in NY. Does make you wonder how much better Sanchez would be if he was coming out this year, though, after listening to Carroll.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Since 1999, 16 quarterbacks have taken the majority of their team's snaps. Roethlisberger, Ryan, and Flacco are the only three to post quarterback ratings over 80.

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These three, the only ones to do it, also played on teams that were complete run-emphasis teams and didn't put pressure on the rookie QB.

Tannenbaum screwed up Sanchez by getting Braylon Edwards and making Sanchez run an explosive passing offense when it was too early.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Edwards yesterday one catch 10 yards. I saw him DROP a key 3rd down pass that woulda been a 1st down. He won't be extended.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Ice_Ice_Brady, nice analysis. I also believe that the way Sanchez has been used will likely put him in the company of some of the other notable failures that you listed. On the other hand, I think that Stafford has a chance to become at least a better than average QB even though he will also be given the majority of the plays. Sanchez was expected to take the Jets deep into the playoffs, anything less would be failure. Since that's not going to happen and because he's performed so ineptly he has not only his own confidence to deal with but will have to deal with the loss of confidence of his teammates and coaches. Stafford has already been a success and while his bar was much lower he's jumped over it and I think he will find himself to be a true leader of his team. It's very hard to picture Sanchez taking a leadership role based on his playmaking to this point.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Mike in 333 said:

Ice_Ice_Brady, nice analysis. I also believe that the way Sanchez has been used will likely put him in the company of some of the other notable failures that you listed. On the other hand, I think that Stafford has a chance to become at least a better than average QB even though he will also be given the majority of the plays. Sanchez was expected to take the Jets deep into the playoffs, anything less would be failure. Since that's not going to happen and because he's performed so ineptly he has not only his own confidence to deal with but will have to deal with the loss of confidence of his teammates and coaches. Stafford has already been a success and while his bar was much lower he's jumped over it and I think he will find himself to be a true leader of his team. It's very hard to picture Sanchez taking a leadership role based on his playmaking to this point.

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Thanks, Mike.

Every team says that they're going to be careful in starting their rookie quarterback. I would equate this with sleeping with your best female friend and believing nothing will change your relationship. It can't happen.

Teams put in their rookie and believe they are being careful. It seems that, logically, if he fails his rookie year, you can just "start over" in year two, but this time he'll be more experienced. It doesn't work that way. These transitions from being the greatest guy in the world in college (especially at USC) to being a complete letdown to a huge city, huge market, and guys that are 15 years your senior on the team, cannot just be "brushed away." That's the reason for all of these failures... it's impatience.

Despite what Jets fans think, you can't just go back to week 3. That was the age of innocence, before Sanchez realized the difficulties and brutality of the league, and before there were 10 games of tape on how to shut him down. Sanchez really wasn't even that good during those games, he was just a decent rookie whose defense was playing lights out.

I'm predicting right now that this guy will be demoted by the end of next season, will float around their system, go to another system to be a backup, and then retire within 6 years. I could be wrong, but history shows I'm probably not.

As I asked a previous poster, Peyton Manning struggled through his rookie year and obviously overcame this. But in the last 10 years, since Manning, show me one guy- just ONE quarterback that has struggled as a rookie (QB rating below 80) that wasn't ruined within 3 years. You can't do it because there are NONE. The only one you might be able to argue for is Kyle Orton, but I'd laugh at you if that's your best argument. I don't think the Jets thought they were drafting a Kyle Orton caliber player.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Actually under games started for 2004, you will see the number 7. I'm done with arguing with you. Clearly you are one of those people who just throws out BS because you want to win an argument.

Eli Manning

To recap: Manning played in the minority of the games (7) and the minority of the snaps (by almost 100.)

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously on anything when, after I told you to research, you still threw out a bunch of false data.

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Ice - your premise is very interesting and the way you present the case is quite impressive. Please see if you can do more of such insights.

comment on the previous posts that point out that Ben and Flacco came to teams having a solid running game. The Jets too had some solid runners in the first half of the season and Sanchez was able to bounce back after his bad Saints game. Is Washington's absence putting too much on Sanchez's shoulders?

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

NYCPatsFan said:

Ice - your premise is very interesting and the way you present the case is quite impressive. Please see if you can do more of such insights.

comment on the previous posts that point out that Ben and Flacco came to teams having a solid running game. The Jets too had some solid runners in the first half of the season and Sanchez was able to bounce back after his bad Saints game. Is Washington's absence putting too much on Sanchez's shoulders?

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Good point on this, NYC. I'm sure some injuries are hurting Sanchez. Then again, they did trade for Braylon Edwards. I think the Jets have a good offensive line, a really good tight end, and an average group of wideouts. Add Thomas Jones, and I really believe Brady would eclipse 4,000 yards with these guys.

I don't know why Sanchez has failed in terms of coaching. It doesn't seem to matter, though. If you look at all of these guys that tanked in their first year, many of them were later traded to other teams. Harrington went to Miami and failed. Carr went to Carolina and the NYGs and couldn't even beat out Delhomme at that point in his career. Tim Couch couldn't even get a job as a backup after his failed tenure in Cleveland; despite a bad system there, his tryouts showed how much he regressed from his rookie hype. Quincy Carter couldn't get a job either. Where's Kyle Boller right now, since it was all the fault of his receivers? (McNair and Flacco haven't really struggled with that.)

So, it seems that whatever the reason for Sanchez's failures, it matters little. Overcoming the mental beating is something that very few can do. The lack of success these "busts" have anywhere else to me shows that the "system" argument is secondary to the argument that starting a rookie QB is a very bad idea, and one that might set back the Jets for another 4-5 years.

Re: Why I think the Jets have permanently ruined Sanchez...

maverick4 said:

These three, the only ones to do it, also played on teams that were complete run-emphasis teams and didn't put pressure on the rookie QB.

Tannenbaum screwed up Sanchez by getting Braylon Edwards and making Sanchez run an explosive passing offense when it was too early.

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Are you trying to say that the Jets aren't a run-emphasis team? Because they currently lead the NFL in rushing attempts and rushing yard, and are 6th in yards per carry.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1

The problem isn't that they're passing too much, it's that when they pass they treat Sanchez like a veteran and expect him to make veteran reads at pro speed. He can't, because he's not only a rookie, but a relatively inexperienced rookie at that. With Big Ben, Ryan, and Flacco, the playbooks were limited on account of the fact that they were rookies. Apparently Brian Schottenheimer didn't get the memo, though...