BJGE does NOT have practice squad eligibility

BradyManny2344 said:

BJGE might just be the most overrated player on the board and Maroney the most underrated. Don't get me wrong, I like BJGE, but he's been way overhyped. Meanwhile, granted the injuries are frustrating, but in 07, Maroney was one of the top 5 most efficient and productive backs according to Football Outsiders. Maybe if Maroney had two middle names, he'd be more popular.

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I do have to agree that BJGE is overrated and Maroney is underrated. It all has to do with perceptions and expectations. If both were drafted and were drafted in the same round, I think the views on at least one of the players would change considerably depending on what round they were taken.

We have seen BJGE before in Mike Cloud and Kyle Eckel. Both those guys had one or two outstanding games and faded away just as fast as they came. I expect the same with BJGE, but hope I am wrong.

bucky said:

That's exactly it. He's being punished for being a 1st round pick. I agree that he hasn't lived up to the expectations of being the next great back in the NFL. But to say that he's 4th string and battling BJGE for a roster spot? Come on!

You can compare him to a guy like Stephen Neal. Neal has played in only 32 games over the last 3 seasons. Maroney has played in 30. When Neal gets injured, nobody says he's battling Billy Connely for a roster spot. The guy is a starter. Although he is the weakest pass blocker of the 5 starters and probably the 4th best OL overall on this team.

It's the same with Maroney. He's the best RB on this team even if he's not the next LT. Fred Taylor is an upgrade over Jordan, but he's not a starting caliber RB any more. And Morris never was and never will be. So right now Maroney is the starter.

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Ok, that's a pretty fair response.

Rob0729 said:

I do have to agree that BJGE is overrated and Maroney is underrated. It all has to do with perceptions and expectations. If both were drafted and were drafted in the same round, I think the views on at least one of the players would change considerably depending on what round they were taken.

We have seen BJGE before in Mike Cloud and Kyle Eckel. Both those guys had one or two outstanding games and faded away just as fast as they came. I expect the same with BJGE, but hope I am wrong.

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I am just suggesting giving him a longer look that's all, I feel he deserved that. I'm not saying he's something wonderful, we really didn't even see enough of him. What we did see however, looked alright to me. I guess the problem lies with his spot on the depth chart, so he'll probably never get to have another chance, so he probably will end up being another Mike Cloud. I see Eckel as a different player than the other 2, because he had somewhat of a different role. But yeah, I guess he probably will end up going nowhere, unless he received another chance, and I guess that's unlikely.

ctpatsfan77 said:

If the Patriots had no interest whatsoever in taking a RB, this would actually make perfect sense: the more interest other teams think the Pats have in RBs, the more likely they are to go early, which pushes down players the Pats do want.



Stats don't matter quite as much to the Patriots as they do to fantasy football players. The thing is, we just don't know what, exactly, the Patriots are expecting.

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Yes, of course, I agree and understand with the whole bluffing theory, etc. My point was what are they thinking when there's BEEN talk?
(Reiss, here on the boards, draft circles, etc)

In other words, if they were totally satisfied with him, there would be about as much talk as us replacing Randy Moss. There wouldn't have been a need to go after Fred Taylor, we simply would've drafted someone at way less cost. There wouldn't be talk about whether a guy who's played sparingly (BJGE) makes the team or not. No one would care.

Basically, I was just saying--don't act like it'd be such a shock. Hell, I've seen crazy threads on getting rid of Faulk, trading Brady, Seymour and Hobbs suck, our O line sucks, etc etc. Those are somewhat far fetched. But to suggest trading, cutting, or replacing someone who has not really been too productive--that's such a shock? This yr, no. I agree, it's too early. You don't wanna give up on a 1st rounder, and he does have potential. I'm not a Maroney-hater. I am for improving the team, however. If there's talk of 'upgrading the WR corps,' then why can't there be talk of upgrading the RB's?
That's my point. With all the incredible threads that are here sometimes, this one isn't that much of a stretch. And you're right, who knows what the Pats expectations were when they drafted him? My guess is that it was a bit more, that's all.

BradyManny2344 said:

BJGE might just be the most overrated player on the board and Maroney the most underrated. Don't get me wrong, I like BJGE, but he's been way overhyped. Meanwhile, granted the injuries are frustrating, but in 07, Maroney was one of the top 5 most efficient and productive backs according to Football Outsiders. Maybe if Maroney had two middle names, he'd be more popular.

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Yep. Exactly.

In other words, if they were totally satisfied with him, there would be about as much talk as us replacing Randy Moss. There wouldn't have been a need to go after Fred Taylor, we simply would've drafted someone at way less cost. There wouldn't be talk about whether a guy who's played sparingly (BJGE) makes the team or not. No one would care.

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Guys as accomplished as Fred Taylor don't get cut very often. Signing him is a good move even if Maroney's healthy and a top-5 back.

supafly said:

I am just suggesting giving him a longer look that's all, I feel he deserved that. I'm not saying he's something wonderful, we really didn't even see enough of him. What we did see however, looked alright to me. I guess the problem lies with his spot on the depth chart, so he'll probably never get to have another chance, so he probably will end up being another Mike Cloud. I see Eckel as a different player than the other 2, because he had somewhat of a different role. But yeah, I guess he probably will end up going nowhere, unless he received another chance, and I guess that's unlikely.

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The coaches looked at him every day in practice and his playing time quickly dwindled after he had two really good games (granted if I remember one was in a more garbage time role, but I could be wrong). And they gave him less and less of a role as the season went along.

What we don't need to give him a longer look at all. The coaching staff makes the decisions, not us. I am guessing Belichick has a pretty good idea of whether or not he is going to make the team in any capacity or not. Those chances could increase or decrease in about 2 1/2 weeks.

Rob0729 said:

The coaches looked at him every day in practice and his playing time quickly dwindled after he had two really good games (granted if I remember one was in a more garbage time role, but I could be wrong). And they gave him less and less of a role as the season went along.

What we don't need to give him a longer look at all. The coaching staff makes the decisions, not us. I am guessing Belichick has a pretty good idea of whether or not he is going to make the team in any capacity or not. Those chances could increase or decrease in about 2 1/2 weeks.

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Do you feel that's because the other RB's started to become healthier, and he simply slipped down the chart to the point of being inactive? Or that his play warranted his gameday inactives? I think it was just an issue of him not really being needed any longer because of healthier backs, or was there something specific that you thought he did wrong, or not up to par? He could've picked up on blitzes better, but that could be worked on, he has the size.

And I meant getting a longer look in a game playing situation, FWIW

BradyBranch39 said:

Yep. Exactly.

Guys as accomplished as Fred Taylor don't get cut very often. Signing him is a good move even if Maroney's healthy and a top-5 back.

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This was from that yr's scoutine combine report:

"Underrated back who might be ranked considerably higher if surrounded by more talent throughout his career. Green-Ellis lacks feel in the passing game, but otherwise is blessed with a rare combination of size, agility and acceleration. Originally signing with Indiana, Green-Ellis proved himself to be an immediate threat in the Big Ten, averaging 98 rushing yards a game against Big Ten opponents before transferring to Ole Miss, where he earned all conference honors after each of the past two seasons."

At 6 ft 220, the guy isn't that bad. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not arguing about him overtaking Maroney, I'm arguing about him deserving a roster spot. If he wouldn't even make it to the practice squad, and that's something we all agree on, then obviously someone would see something in him. You Maroney lovers can have your last yr, I don't buy into the "made of glass" theory, I do have problems with his "personal issues."

Barring injury, I would be surprised to see Green-Ellis make the 53-man roster. We currently have four much better experienced backs. Sure, Green-Ellis should be brought to camp. We need the competition.

In the past, we have carried a maximum of five running backs, almost always with one as our fullback or H-back.

1) If Belichick chooses five running backs and zero fullbacks for the roster, then Green-Ellis would need to beat out a draftee for a draft spot. However, I do not expect that Belichick would draft a running back in the top 125 picks and then dump him without giving him a year of development. Drafting a player who projects to have less of a future than Green-Ellis now does would be a waste of a draft pick (by definition or we wouldn't make the pick).

2) Perhaps Taylor and Morris will take almost all the pure non-passing reps. Maroney would then be a solid backup and perhaps also be used as a returner. I don't see Green-Ellis coming close to Maroney in such expectations.

3) Perhaps Maroney will look good in camp and take away many of the reps normaly taken by Morris. I don't see Green-Ellis coming close to Maroney in such expectations.

4) Keeping Green-Ellis to be inactive at the cost of cap money and Maroney's likely production at running back and retruner is an enormous overstatement of the value of Green-Ellis.

4) We have lot of options in the draft with regard to player and with regard to type of player.

5) We still could sign a veteran blocking fullback. They don't cost much. That would be my choice, but Belichick seems to be going in a different direction.

6) Trading Green-Ellis is the normal joke of posters. Before the comparison to Cassel is made, I stipulate that if Green-Ellis had a 1000 yard year for us, there would teams willing to give us a top pick for him. But yes, in the last week of the preseason, we could trade him for a conditional 6th.

What trade value does Maroney have? He's an injury prone 700 yard a year back. He's no better than Sammy Morris, and he's a jag. I prefer Morris because he hit's the hole harder, allthough Maroney is more of a home run threat.

Based on his career, i wouldn't even give up a 3rd for Maroney, if i was the GM of another team.

WelshPat said:

What trade value does Maroney have? He's an injury prone 700 yard a year back. He's no better than Sammy Morris, and he's a jag. I prefer Morris because he hit's the hole harder, allthough Maroney is more of a home run threat.

Based on his career, i wouldn't even give up a 3rd for Maroney, if i was the GM of another team.

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Ahh, another Maroney fan. I think the debate is over what to do with him, if he dosen't come around this yr. Some even want to get rid of him now, but I think it's too early to give up on 1st rd talent. I've even heard some arguments on actually just cutting him for nothing but a cap hit, which is extreme and a worthless move, IMO.

And we're also discussing what happens to BJGE, since we can't (try to) move him to the practice squad. Some think he's nothing special, some think he has potential to stick around. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the coach thinks, and if we draft another RB.

supafly said:

Apparently, some here would be very shocked, like it's never crossed their minds before (?)

Not quite sure what the heavy-Maroney supporters thought when we paid good money to bring in Fred Taylor. Or when we came in (what,3rd overall?) as a franchise in rushing this yr..without Maroney. Not sure what they think when there are rumors of looking at the nation's leading rusher this yr in D.Brown?

Since he has accumulated a whopping 15-1600 yrs now in 3 seasons and everything. (ok,2--I'll give him the benefit of the doubt) That still is about 800 yards a season, which would be an average of 50 yards a game from our top, starting, first round pick. I guess when we drafted him, they saw visions of 50 yard games in their heads.

I mean, he is a 1st rd pick and all, so I guess he's untouchable forever. But to question whether BJGE is even any good or not, or to question whether he's earned a longer,better look is somewhat biased thinking. I'm not gonna say stupid, because we all defend our certain players, and I wouldn't want someone telling me that I was silly, or stupid, for sticking up for any player on our team. But no, I don't anyone should be 'shocked' about rumors or suggestions about getting rid of someone who's been unproductive.

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Maroney has been productive, certainly way more than BJGE.

The problem with Maroney bashers is that they have two standards. The standard for MAroney is higher because he is a first round pick and BJGE was undrafted.

That is reasonable for EXPECTATIONS,but not for making a decision which RB to keep. Take away their names and decide: Would you rather have a back that averaged 4.5 yards per carry or 3.5 yards per carry?

Re: BJGE does NOT have practice squad eligibility.

Ungeheuer said:

Yeah, I would be shocked, too.

I really like BJGE, but look at the Pats' backs and wideouts. Maroney is the only guy (maybe Greg Lewis is the exception) who is still young and has above-average speed for his position. It's possible Ben Watson is the fastest player the Pats have on offense. You cut Maroney and the Pats suddenly have a pretty glaring team speed problem on offense.

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Are you kidding me? Moss, Galloway, and Lewis say hi. I'm sure they're all faster than Maroney.
Speed is not going to be a problem for this offense, even if Maroney goes down for the year again.

I expect that BJGE will either be RB #5 for the Patriots, or he'll be a member of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Rob0729 said:

I do have to agree that BJGE is overrated and Maroney is underrated. It all has to do with perceptions and expectations. If both were drafted and were drafted in the same round, I think the views on at least one of the players would change considerably depending on what round they were taken.

We have seen BJGE before in Mike Cloud and Kyle Eckel. Both those guys had one or two outstanding games and faded away just as fast as they came. I expect the same with BJGE, but hope I am wrong.

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Exactly, BJGE had two good games. Maroney has flashed the potential of an elite RB. I agree its all about perception and expectation.

I say keep BJGE over Maroney outright. BJGE has potential and a good attitude running wise. We know what we have in Maroney, a dancing bust behind the lines waiting to go down for -2 yards.

I don't think people who quote his average ypc realize just how bad a negative run is. It sets up 2 and 12 and we're behind the 8 ball.

A good RB who gets a min 3 yards no matter what is worth his weight in gold for that reason.

It's almost comical watching Maroney dance and then get swiped down with one hand by a lineman. Kind of sad though.

klinefan said:

I say keep BJGE over Maroney outright. BJGE has potential and a good attitude running wise. We know what we have in Maroney, a dancing bust behind the lines waiting to go down for -2 yards.

I don't think people who quote his average ypc realize just how bad a negative run is. It sets up 2 and 12 and we're behind the 8 ball.

A good RB who gets a min 3 yards no matter what is worth his weight in gold for that reason.

It's almost comical watching Maroney dance and then get swiped down with one hand by a lineman. Kind of sad though.

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A good RB gets "a min 3 yards no matter what?"

Just for the hell of it, I looked over Adrian Peterson's first two games of last year. To my surprise, despite being the best RB in the NFL, he does not fit your description of "good".

In weeks 1 and 2, he ran the ball 49 times, and got less than 3 yards 17 times. If a good RB gets 3 yards minimum no matter what, as you said, then a RB who fails to get even 3 yards on over a third of his carries can't be very good, can he?

Seriously, you people need to recalibrate your expectations a little. You're blaming Maroney for not fitting a criteria that no RB in the league fits.

klinefan said:

I don't think people who quote his average ypc realize just how bad a negative run is. It sets up 2 and 12 and we're behind the 8 ball.
.

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I don't think you realize how often elite RBs lose yards.


In 2007, Lawrence Maroney had a success rate of 58%. Success rate is runs of 4 yards or more on 1st and 10, 60% of required yards on second down, 100% on third down. A negative run is always an unsuccessful play.



58% was good for 2nd in the league.

This is a great stat. What is the source?

Synovia said:

I don't think you realize how often elite RBs lose yards.


In 2007, Lawrence Maroney had a success rate of 58%. Success rate is runs of 4 yards or more on 1st and 10, 60% of required yards on second down, 100% on third down. A negative run is always an unsuccessful play.



58% was good for 2nd in the league.

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mgteich said:

This is a great stat. What is the source?

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Footballoutsiders.com