Today's post by NEInsider on ESPN board

[Wildo7]

We need more threads that talk about the X's and O's. Techniques, schemes, strategies, responsibilities, in-depth football analysis.

I enjoy these type of talks far more than the usual stuff we get around here these days.

+1. These are the most informative threads and you don't see them on any other messageboards, but there are still not enough of them.

 

[sebman2112]

Few things:

1. This is not how NE deploys their defense, and this almost seems to be coming from the mind of a teenager, or someone who simply doesn't have a great understanding of defensive cencepts.

2. While I do agree with the main point (Hobbs is better than some fans realize), I also don't remember seeing him get "burned deep" all that many times last year. He really didn't give up a lot of TD either.

3. It is also true that Hobbs didn't get Safety help over the top a number of times last year, but it usually had to do with Samuel's route jumping, and the Patriots giving him Safety help so he could take chances. The fact that they weren't giving Hobbs that help as much also speaks to their trust in his coverage ability.

4. I almost can't believe this person is still trying to pass his BS off as "inside info". His info hasn't added up a number of times, and the only good info he puts out is usually available via the media before he ever post his spin of it.

 

[Joker]

alas Sebman...you...along with most of us...will always be "outsiders"...whether by choice or not...funny thing though...if you've been a member of Ian's board for any length of time, you'll notice these "insiders" come and go...like dark clouds on a sunny summer afternoon

 

[NEPatriot]

We have a very good chance of being dominant at corner by the end of the season. In other words we will be much better at corner by January when it counts than in September. Wheatley will be a star in NFL.

better at the end of the season? What happens between now and the end of the season?

 

[Joker]

Football happens...I'll be watching

 

[spacecrime]

Have you not been watching the Pats or do you just not understand football, because everything he said of our system is 100% true. He may not be a true insider, but he knows about their system, which you can see from watching their games if you know the game.

Andy might know a little bit about the game, just things he picked up here and there.

Normally I don't like people referencing post counts a guide for how much someone knows, and I won't here. But you might do a little more reading and paying attention and see who knows what they are talking about before going off and telling long-time posters they don't know football.

FWIW.

 

[Bill 4 Prez]

Andy might know a little bit about the game, just things he picked up here and there.

Normally I don't like people referencing post counts a guide for how much someone knows, and I won't here. But you might do a little more reading and paying attention and see who knows what they are talking about before going off and telling long-time posters they don't know football.

FWIW.

Did you agree with what he said?

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

CB in our system is defined by the scheme being played

I loved that quote

and the FS must decide which corner needs over the top assistance based on coverage schemes. The FS help can be changed if it appears the other corner needs hlep or has not played the correct coverage for the defense called. This is the job of the FS.

The FS's job is not to run to the CB that needs the most help. He plays the deep middle zone. Think about it - each offensive route is created to layer a defense and each try to expose each zone. If a player who covers the deep center zone runs to the sideline, don't you think that people running up the seams will be open every single play? There would be no-one in the deep middle.

If the corner that was to receive deep help is in good position and the other corner appears to have either jumped a route or been duped into thinking he has picked up a key and changed coverage but left himself open to a deep route the FS must play the percentages and move to help the corner in trouble. This is why the FS is generally positioned in the center of the field and deep.

That's sort of right, the FS can be shaded over to one side to help out another DB, but it's not as simple as he puts it to be. He's so vague and confusing i think this is nothing more than basic guesswork.

Hobbs many times was doing his job perfectly with deep help assigned but lost his deep help when the other corner gambled and broke coverage or the defensive scheme called was not followed by the other corner. This resulted in Hobbs being one on one when he should not have been and being beaten deep when he should have had deep help.

This part just puts the nail in his own coffin. Is he seriously suggesting that Asante Samuel was always in need of help? Asante Samuel is 10 times the CB Hobbs could ever be. Samuel is the smartest CB in the NFL, he baits even the best QBs into dangerous throws and can break back to the ball very, very well.

Since we do not flip corners and have a corner cover a specific receiver our cornerbacks absolutely must not break the scheme or they endanger the other cornerbacks coverage and the defense called

That's news to me. I was under the impression that we have left side and right side CBs, as said by the CBs themselves. They are not WR-specific as evident in games such as Indy (Hobbs vs Wayne, Samuel vs a nobody).

We have a very good chance of being dominant at corner by the end of the season. In other words we will be much better at corner by January when it counts than in September. Wheatley will be a star in NFL.

I guarantee that even the coaching staff aren't this positive about the CB position. They realize they have a problem at CB and will do their best to mask it - they won't have their heads so far up their arses that they think Wheatley will become a star and everything is fine.



He's just digging his own grave in terms of credibility now.

 

[TripleOption]

The FS's job is not to run to the CB that needs the most help. He plays the deep middle zone.

In what coverage? If it's Cover 3, then he has the deep middle. If it's Cover One he is a free player and has sideline to sideline.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Samuel is the smartest CB in the NFL

He's just digging his own grave in terms of credibility now.

wow. Talk about losing credibility. Assante is the smartest in the nfl?

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

In what coverage? If it's Cover 3, then he has the deep middle. If it's Cover One he is a free player and has sideline to sideline.

Yes, but how often do the Patriots play cover 1? Even if they did, do they do it regularly enough to validate his [NEInsider] claims?

wow. Talk about losing credibility. Assante is the smartest in the nfl?

It's a matter of opinion. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a CB better at diagnosing plays, general field awareness (and baiting QBs) than Samuel.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Thanx, people always try to make rocket science out of it, I blame Madden......

Thats what this strikes me as, just over complicating the matter. I think we might be getting confused and reading what he says as the FS going to who he thinks needs the help early and possibly leaving the middle open when I read it as just reading and going to the danger, in this case giving help to corners if they need it.

Thats all I read it as anyways.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

It's a matter of opinion. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a CB better at diagnosing plays, general field awareness (and baiting QBs) than Samuel.

That guy we had before him named Law was pretty smart

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

That guy we had before him named Law was pretty smart

true. I prefer Law to Samuel

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

We need more threads that talk about the X's and O's. Techniques, schemes, strategies, responsibilities, in-depth football analysis.

I enjoy these type of talks far more than the usual stuff we get around here these days.

Couldn't agree more, this is 100% what I enjoy most here!

 

[arrellbee]

It's a matter of opinion. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a CB better at diagnosing plays, general field awareness (and baiting QBs) than Samuel.

Champ Bailey ?

 

[JoeSixPat]

As AJ just said, it really isn't.

I felt there was at least some accuracy in the Insider's description - but I think AJ spends a lot more time breaking down our defensive scheme ... and if he says this is an inaccurate description I'd tend to accept his view.

 

[TripleOption]

Yes, but how often do the Patriots play cover 1? Even if they did, do they do it regularly enough to validate his [NEInsider] claims?

It depends. Some years they seem to be a heavy Cover 2/Cover 2 Man team, and sometimes they play a lot of single high Safety looks.

I'm not saying he is right; I'm saying he's describing a form of Cover 1.

You need to understand that there are variants of every coverage.

If I told you that in Cover 2, the Corners can run deep you might not think it was valid but there is a form of Cover 2 when the corners convert to deep players. You can have your Corners read #2 and run with #1. You can also play Cover 2 Man Under.

There are combo coverages, 1/4 1/4 1/2, Corner Over and many other variants not to mention the many adjustments and tweaks.

 

[Ring 6]

I disagree. Much of our offensive and defensive philosopohy entails a read & react component.

As fans we don't know which defense is called or what any one specific player's responsibilities are on each specific play.

The deciding TD in the SB is a prime example. Many fans criticized Hobbs on that play for getting beat when in reality he did exactly what he was supposed to do but another player missed on his assignment.

It's easy to blame a CB when he gets beaten but as the poster was attempting to point out, it's not always the corner's fault.

I think arguing the specifics of where the safeties lines up misses the point he was trying to make. Also keep in mind, BB likes to move players around pre-snap so that the QB thinks the coverage is doing one thing, when in fact they're doing something completely different.

The point is very simply this.
WE DO NOT RUN A DEFENSE where a corner is told he has deep help and a safety can decide whether to give deep help or not.
Either it is the SAFETYS JOB to play over top of that corner, or it is not. Under no circumstances would a corner think he has deep help but a safety think its up to him to give it or go somewhere else.

There are many calls, plays and routes where something along the lines of what is talked about here happens. For example if our safeties are playing deep halves, and the outside receiver runs a fly and the inside reciever a deep post, the safety must choose. The corner knows he COULD have help, but with 2 receivers on his side realizes he won;t.

The big issue with the original post is that it implied our corners are blameless because we tell them to cover as if they have deep help (really deep help means someone else is responsible for the deep route, not them, so they will cover diffferently than if they had responsibility for the deep route) but the safety can choose to not give it.
THERE IS NO DEFENSE RUN BY ANY TEAM AT ANY LEVEL WHERE THAT HAPPENS.

 

[Ring 6]

It depends. Some years they seem to be a heavy Cover 2/Cover 2 Man team, and sometimes they play a lot of single high Safety looks.

I'm not saying he is right; I'm saying he's describing a form of Cover 1.

You need to understand that there are variants of every coverage.

If I told you that in Cover 2, the Corners can run deep you might not think it was valid but there is a form of Cover 2 when the corners convert to deep players. You can have your Corners read #2 and run with #1. You can also play Cover 2 Man Under.

There are combo coverages, 1/4 1/4 1/2, Corner Over and many other variants not to mention the many adjustments and tweaks.

There is no coverage used by any team at any level that has a corner covering with the expectation he has safety help on the deep route, but the safety deciding whether or not to give it or do something else.
We can describe every coverage ever used, and what it is , but there simply is none that does this, which is what the op stated.