Welcome to PatsFans.com

Today's post by NEInsider on ESPN board

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by cupofjoe1962, Sep 2, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,641
    Likes Received:
    43
    Ratings:
    +109 / 15 / -9

    A few of us have been following the NEInsider posts on the ESPN message
    board.

    Today he made a post on the cornerbacks....

    http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nfl&id=nwe&tid=3342520&lid=19

    A little note on cornerback play. Hobbs is quite a bit better than most of you realize. CB in our system is defined by the scheme being played and the FS must decide which corner needs over the top assistance based on coverage schemes. The FS help can be changed if it appears the other corner needs hlep or has not played the correct coverage for the defense called. This is the job of the FS.

    If the corner that was to receive deep help is in good position and the other corner appears to have either jumped a route or been duped into thinking he has picked up a key and changed coverage but left himself open to a deep route the FS must play the percentages and move to help the corner in trouble. This is why the FS is generally positioned in the center of the field and deep.

    Hobbs many times was doing his job perfectly with deep help assigned but lost his deep help when the other corner gambled and broke coverage or the defensive scheme called was not followed by the other corner. This resulted in Hobbs being one on one when he should not have been and being beaten deep when he should have had deep help.

    If a corner has deep help he plays inside the receiver forcing the QB to put air under the ball and allow the deep help to move into position and either break up the play or intercept it. If a corner plays inside the receiver when he has no deep help he forces the FS to decide who needs the help the most. Guessing is never good.

    Since we do not flip corners and have a corner cover a specific receiver our cornerbacks absolutely must not break the scheme or they endanger the other cornerbacks coverage and the defense called

    We have a very good chance of being dominant at corner by the end of the season. In other words we will be much better at corner by January when it counts than in September. Wheatley will be a star in NFL.

    The reason Ty Law was the best corner in the NFL for years is simple. He played the defense called perfectly and never guessed when it would affect the other corner despite the fact he was not that fast. He got his interceptions playing the defense correctly.
     
  2. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,261
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Stop giving this fake the credit he needs to continue on. Enough is enough. Stop treating whatever he says as gospel.
     
  3. patsgo

    patsgo Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    at least the insider sounds half way intelligent more than alot of posters here
     
  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Yes, that was a horrible description of our defense, starting with the fact that it has been discussed for years that we do not play a strong safety and free safety but a left safety and right safety.
    It is ludicrous to even beign to suggest that our defense requires a safety to stand in the middle of the field,and watch how both corners are aligned and covering their man before chossing which side to give help on.
    That is simply impossible, because by the time he could make that decision, even assuming he COULD make that decision, the play would have developed so far that he would have no chance of getting to either side of the field.
    Plus, it goes against every concept of defensive football in the world, to suggest that a corner may or may not have deep help, so he has to cover as if he does, but also as if he doesnt in case the safety decides he doesnt need it? How do you decide whether a corner who is expecting deep help needs it or not from the first 5-10 yards of coverage? By definition, the tighter his coverage the more he is expecting it.
    Or a different way to read this is that the safety sits back and decides which corner is deciding to play his own defense instead of the one that is called, implying our corners just do what they want and our defensive calls are chaos.

    This is one of the most obtuse posts I have ever read. The person writing either is goofing with people or can't even understand why what he made up is impossible to be accurate.
     
  5. PYPER

    PYPER Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    You may not like or believe in the legitimacy of the source, but the analysis is completely accurate.

    Good post
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2008
  6. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,261
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    As AJ just said, it really isn't.
     
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Think about that analysis. There is NO WAY that our defense is set up so the corner thinks he is getting help deep but the safety stands in the middle of the field and decides which side he is going to run too after its too late.
     
  8. jeffbiologist

    jeffbiologist Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    That sounds like High school... I am sure who gets doubled has alot more to do with what defense is called, strong side and motion responsibilities.....WAY too simple.
     
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    32,071
    Likes Received:
    862
    Ratings:
    +2,603 / 26 / -7

    One thing I can agree with NEInsider if he is real or fake is that Hobbs does get blamed too often for blown coverages that were not his fault. Fans tend to blame the defender who gets to the receiver first in these blown coverages and Hobbs tends to be first since he plays the deepest. I know there has been several times last year he got blasted for giving up plays when if you look at the replay it was clearly a safety or nickelback.
     
  10. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    23,972
    Likes Received:
    307
    Ratings:
    +836 / 9 / -5

    i dont know how an ínsider'can continue to last under BB. if there was one they would smoke him out ! and that too he goes to ESPN to post for fans ! ?
     
  11. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,323
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +14 / 1 / -0

    Yeah, it's called cover one.
     
  12. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +254 / 3 / -1

    I'll side with the crew that don't like these posts much. Never seen enough of the Pats coverage to know the full ins and outs of what they run, but the explanation given for observations is either (1) careless or (2) clueless, and the whole thing rings false to me as a defensive back.

    Stuff like this. The second sentence is not a definite characteristic of the system the insider is describing. Either he's in a hurry or isn't a football guy. It would be like a car engineer saying "Here at GM we believe in giving America the safest car possible. That's why we put the steering wheel on the left side of the car."

    I've never heard of a FS asked to do anything above (1) play their zone or (2) be the deepest man on the field and break only when the ball's thrown. If BB asks our safeties to be Master of All Zones I have a profound respect for their abilities, its can't be easy reading both the offense and defense scheme sideline to sideline and covering the same, with the speed of the NFL game and the abiilty of NFL passers.

    I'd normally regard this to be unfeasible as described at a high school level. Safeties read and cover half a field, if that.
     
  13. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,500
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I thought that the Pats played zone so the corner releases to the safety to watch for the inside routes. I'm just a novice but am I right ?
     
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Oh, I agree with that.

    There are 2 things that this fan base consistently overreacts to, IMO (and I would say EVERY fan base does also)
    1) Any completed pass means the corner stinks. The only way for a corner to be any good is if no one ever catches a pass on him, and
    2) Every play that doesnt work means the OC stinks. TheOC is expected to call plays that work no matter what the defense does, and our guys not executing or the defense executing well has nothing to do with it.

    We will NEVER have a corner that doesn't get described, like Hobbs did earlier as 'getting burned several times a game' and never have an OC that doesn't get called an idiot more weeks than not.
     
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Not even close.
     
  16. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,279
    Likes Received:
    85
    Ratings:
    +254 / 3 / -1

    Adding a post to ask a question: Has anybody ever seen a Pats deep safety leave the middle of the field before the ball was thrown?

    Naturally I'm not talking about Cover 2 here.
     
  17. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Thats the thing, we play so many different coverages (every team does) that to describe it like this is just way off.
    If we are playing zone, EVERY player has a zone to cover, they do not pick and choose.
    The 'over the top help' comes in when a safety has the deep part of the field and the corner has intermediate. When there is only one reciever in that corners area, he can continue deep with the receiver into the safeties zone. If you have a combo of a go, and an out, the corner leaves the go and takes the out.
    If it is man coverage, you can have a 'free safety'. (You cant in zone because he is ASSIGNED A ZONE) One safety would cover the TE, and if there are only 3 recievers one of the DBs is 'free' with no one to cover. In that case they could roam, or more likely are assigned a receiver or a part of the field to focus on. The idea that they stay in the middle of the field, and watch how coverage is going then guess where to run is inane.
     
  18. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,323
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +14 / 1 / -0

    That's pretty much what you described, it certainly isn't a black zero....
     
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    23,383
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +1,069 / 20 / -21

    Cover one is not close to what I described, what I described doesnt exist.
    What is your definition of a cover 1 scheme?
     
  20. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Wow, that coverage sounds like a great idea. if I were to run it, I would call it...Cover One!! I could also call it "Man Free"...What a football genius I am, to come up with such a scheme...

    Funny how some people will say something is impossible, and it is run from Youth up through the NFL.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>