Report: surgery for Gronk

[luuked]

Well said. And I don't know why @luuked felt the need for the personal insult at you, but good for you for being above it.

Because it makes no ****ing sense.. if you can't throw deep into open space because of injury concerns then lets pack it up and never play that player ever again. There is almost nothing more safe than that for a TE to do on a football field.. hell even blocking on a PAT is more dangerous

 

[shmessy]

Because it makes no ****ing sense.. if you can't throw deep into open space because of injury concerns then lets pack it up and never play that player ever again. There is almost nothing more safe than that for a TE to do on a football field.. hell even blocking on a PAT is more dangerous

Players heal with time from injury.

That's why they didn't play Dion Lewis 5 weeks ago when he could run great, but they still wanted him at a higher percent for preservation. It's common sense. A few weeks back, did you feel " because of injury concerns then lets pack it up and never play that player ever again" regarding Dion Lewis? Why not?

But thank you for at least not going personal and sticking to the subject in your above post.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[luuked]

Players heal with time from injury.

That's why they didn't play Dion Lewis 5 weeks ago when he could run great, but they still wanted him at a higher percent for preservation. It's common sense. A few weeks back, did you feel " because of injury concerns then lets pack it up and never play that player ever again" regarding Dion Lewis? Why not?

But thank you for at least not going personal and sticking to the subject in your above post.

Let me ask one more time, and maybe for the first time in about ten tries it will not be ignored..

How the **** is a deep shot into open space considered dangerous and inline blocking or seam routes are ok ? Because that's the entire reason for my concussion comment.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe he'll play this Sunday!

 

[Mack Herron]

Maybe he'll play this Sunday!

The "days till IR designation" over/under is 4.

 

[supafly]

Let me ask one more time, and maybe for the first time in about ten tries it will not be ignored..

How the **** is a deep shot into open space considered dangerous and inline blocking or seam routes are ok ? Because that's the entire reason for my concussion comment.

I don't think we want our oft-injured, constantly healing, star offensive player to be the one who is used for sprawling downfield overthrows. I think we have plenty of other much more capable players who are both faster and expendable.

I don't think we've ever seen any success with those types of throws to Gronk, with only a tendency for problems. The simple suggestion was that it may be possible for both QB and TE to change the approach to a slightly more conservative one, that's all. I don't think we see guys like Witten trying to dive to make those plays, and it may behoove them to keep that in mind moving forward.

Realizing that we have a different opinion on the subject and that we've both said our peace, we should probably move ahead. I don't want to get into a situation where we're beating a dead horse.

 

[shmessy]

Maybe he'll play this Sunday!

He still the Gronk, so he'll play.

Sadly, it won't be football.

 

[luuked]

I don't think we want our oft-injured, constantly healing, star offensive player to be the one who is used for sprawling downfield overthrows. I think we have plenty of other much more capable players who are both faster and expendable.

I don't think we've ever seen any success with those types of throws to Gronk, with only a tendency for problems. The simple suggestion was that it may be possible for both QB and TE to change the approach to a slightly more conservative one, that's all. I don't think we see guys like Witten trying to dive to make those plays, and it may behoove them to keep that in mind moving forward.

Realizing that we have a different opinion on the subject and that we've both said our peace, we should probably move forward. I don't want to get into a situation where we're beating a dead horse.

You again dodged the reason which made me answer so over the top a few replies back. Why do you consider seam routes and blocking less dangerous than deep throws into open field ?

That is the confusing part here for me. If you are concerned about Gronk going deep then you should be 5x more concerned everytime you see LGB run towards his back from behind or Brady leading him into a seam route in the middle of the field where he is defenseless against all DBs alike. Because the impacts on those hits are considerably more dangerous than "falling to the floor".

Finally, if you get a favorable matchup you go for it. Especially on safe routes like a "go".

I understand your point about his health and not being 100%. I disagree but get it. What I don't get is what I mentioned above.

 

[shmessy]

Let me ask one more time, and maybe for the first time in about ten tries it will not be ignored..

How the **** is a deep shot into open space considered dangerous and inline blocking or seam routes are ok ? Because that's the entire reason for my concussion comment.

Supafly explains it far better than I do.

You know who else did? Herman Edwards - -from 5:25 to 6:00 of this clip (block out all the other foolishness of this stupid show - the point Edwards makes here is the core of the situation).



Gronk is a different athlete. His style of play is different. He falls like a ton of bricks. He explodes. He is not Antonio Brown or Jerry Rice. He is Marc Bavarro, whose career also cut short due to mismanagement. For all intents and purposes, he was through after 6 seasons. At this point, Gronk should be used as a dominating relief pitcher, not as a 9 inning starter. He's not a marathoner. If they are going to be smarter than the 1980's Giants, they would pick their spots with this guy.

The bigger they are, the harder they fall. What's so hard to understand? Add speed and it is a fall with greater force.

I can't explain it any clearer to you. You're on your own from here on out.

 

[luuked]

Supafly explains it far better than I do.

Gronk is a different athlete. His style of play is different. He falls like a ton of bricks. He explodes. He is not Antonio Brown or Jerry Rice. He is Marc Bavarro, whose career also cut short due to mismanagement. At this point, he should be used as a dominating relief pitcher, not as a 9 inning starter. He's not a marathoner.

So you are saying falling during a go route is more dangerous to him than plays where a group of linemen/RBs/DE potentially can fall into him while blocking or a play where a safety can blow up his knee/legs with full speed ?

 

[shmessy]

So you are saying falling during a go route is more dangerous to him than plays where a group of linemen/RBs/DE potentially can fall into him while blocking or a play where a safety can blow up his knee/legs with full speed ?

Bad things can happen on any play. But the odds are far greater for the "big, clumsy" athlete on a long go-route if he does not know how to fall. Gronk is not twinkle toes Brandon lloyd.

It's simple physics.

Read the entirety of my previous post. It's all right there.

 

[Bradyking12]

Maybe he might actually be able to play in the Super Bowl if we make it, if he's not on IR by the time the limits up

 

[luuked]

Bad things can happen on any play. But the odds are far greater for the "big, clumsy" athlete on a long go-right if he does not know how to fall. Gronk is not twinkle toes.

Read the entirety of my previous post. It's all right there.

Where ? There is not a single word where you talk about blocking or seams at all. Just the same stuff about falling with great force which has nothing to do with what I am saying.

Screw this.. lets just forget about it.. he will end up on IR anyway and lets continue this disagreement next year in the preseason when we have a better idea what the offense around him will look like..

 

[supafly]

You again dodged the reason which made me answer so over the top a few replies back. Why do you consider seam routes and blocking less dangerous than deep throws into open field ?

That is the confusing part here for me. If you are concerned about Gronk going deep then you should be 5x more concerned everytime you see LGB run towards his back from behind or Brady leading him into a seam route in the middle of the field where he is defenseless against all DBs alike. Because the impacts on those hits are considerably more dangerous than "falling to the floor".

Finally, if you get a favorable matchup you go for it. Especially on safe routes like a "go".

I understand your point about his health and not being 100%. I disagree but get it. What I don't get is what I mentioned above.

I think you're reading way too deeply into this.

Some of us don't want to see our QB lead our always injured 270 lb TE on throws where he needs to sprawl out and dive, considering that they've ended our season with Gronk now twice. The point is that it kind of sucks that any number of lesser talented players could've been exposed to those routes/overthrows.

The same could be said for the decision made by Gronkowski to put on his Superman cape, fly through the air with reckless abandon, and give up his entire body on both of those throws. Whether you agree or disagree, it's not nearly as complicated as you're making it out to be. Considering his extensive injury history, it could be time to try and make some smarter decisions or try to break certain habits.

In the end, I would expect us to be both partially right and partially wrong, compared to the opinion of Belichick. I expect 50/50 in regards to "football players play football," and another 50/50 with an eye on being a bit more cautious and attempting to limit his exposure to injury.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't expect that he will be. As long as there's any reasonable chance he can play within 2 months, you leave him on the roster. Why wouldn't you? Even a 10% chance that he can play at 80% in the Super Bowl is more valuable to this team than anything the 53rd guy has to offer. If Gronk's IRed, IMO that means they're pretty much certain he can't recover in time to play in a potential Super Bowl appearance.

I know some people in the media read yesterday's statement as the Pats indicating they'd IR Gronk today. I read it as them cautioning everyone not to read too much into it when they don't IR Gronk. It doesn't mean they expect him back, and it doesn't mean he's some sort of fragile wuss or not-team-player if they make the AFCCG or Super Bowl and he can't play. It means exactly what they said: he probably won't be healthy enough to play at any point this season, but they're going to hold out for the possibility as long as there's any possibility to hold out for, because he's just that important.

Belichick's a smart guy, he knows exactly how this media circus is going to unfold. By not placing Gronk on IR, everyone will assume the Pats expect him back at some point this year. A couple months from now, the Pats host some mediocre team in the divisional round and more likely than not we'll knock them off and advance. All of a sudden, the Pats are in the AFCCG yet again, we're facing a formidable opponent, and Gronk's 7 weeks into what's been billed as an 8 week recovery. Some pants-on-head idiot in the media will dish up the following hot take:
"Ben Roethlisberger always comes back early - if Gronk was really tough and a team player he'd be on the field this Sunday". Friday rolls around, he's ruled out again, and everyone turns on him. Starts questioning if he's a team player, if there's conflict between him and the Patriots staff, if they disagree on whether he's ready to go, etc. etc.

Next, say they win the AFCCG. Now everyone's convinced he's definitely got to play in the Super Bowl. Why not IR him 2 months ago otherwise? The national and local media breathlessly report on Gronk's status, and in the overwhelmingly likely event that he's just not ready to play, he absorbs most of the fallout. People suddenly start questioning his conditioning and his rehab and his desire to help the team. Chris Mortensen invents an 'inside source' claiming that he reinjured his back doing keg stands. Stephen A. Smith claims he's getting a free pass because he's white. Some random Jet/Bill/Raven claims Gronk is a ****y and isn't that good anyway. At some point, Curran/Reiss have to try to inject some sanity into this giant, hysterical circlejerk, and now that's made easier because they can point to a statement two ****ing months ago explaining that nobody expected or even reasonably hoped for him to make it back by February.

That's absolutely what will happen if the Pats make a deep playoff run and Gronk has a standard recovery timeline. And it's really, really unfair to Gronk. So that's what yesterday's statement goes back to: Gronk isn't heading to IR--at least not yet--but that doesn't mean we should get it in our heads that he'll be ready. The chances are slim enough that that's an unfair expectation to place on him. If he was damn near anyone else, the Pats would just IR him today and be done with it. But since it's Gronk they're holding out some faint hope, which should not under any circumstances be confused with expectation.

I'm going to bookmark this post, because if the Pats make the AFCCG and even Super Bowl I'm 100% positive this is how it's going to go down (assuming the Pats haven't already IRed Gronk by then). And when it happens, we'll at least have yesterday's statement to point back to, although we all know that won't be enough to stop the runaway train that is media sensationalism.

 

[goheels22002]

 

[deters]

Hypothetical question for board. If Pats make it to SB and Gronk is able to return and play in the game, if we win, does he decide to retire based on his injury history? He'd still make it to the HOF and would have 2 rings. What more to prove? Plus he's wealthy beyond dreams.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hypothetical question for board. If Pats make it to SB and Gronk is able to return and play in the game, if we win, does he decide to retire based on his injury history? He'd still make it to the HOF and would have 2 rings. What more to prove? Plus he's wealthy beyond dreams.

I think he's too competitive, and will play as long as he can do it at a high level. But none of us can know how much all the surgeries have worn him. I certainly wouldn't be shocked and wouldn't blame him if he did hang them up, Super Bowl or no. That's a call he'll have to make for himself, and whatever choice he makes as fans he really should have our support.

 

[deters]

I think he's too competitive, and will play as long as he can do it at a high level. But none of us can know how much all the surgeries have worn him. I certainly wouldn't be shocked and wouldn't blame him if he did hang them up, Super Bowl or no. That's a call he'll have to make for himself, and whatever choice he makes as fans he really should have our support.

I love Gronk, hell look at my avi, but I hope he hangs them up soon. He might not feel it now, but when he's 40, his body is gonna ache like no other. At this point, i think he needs to think long term health.