Report: surgery for Gronk

[shmessy]

Football players play football. I am in shock by how many people on this board don't get that.

Agree 100%. It's not the players decision.

Why didn't Dion Lewis play in week 8? He's a football player, why didn't he play?

 

[blackglass3]

Agree 100%. It's not the players decision.

Why didn't Dion Lewis play in week 8? He's a football player, why didn't he play?

Not the players desicion? Did I miss the part where Gronk didn't want to play and was forced to?

I don't remember Week 8. Was Lewis back to practicing yet? That is such a freaking straw man argument.

 

[juny]

can anybody provide summary of this clip?

 

[XLIX]

1) There was nothing wrong with the play

Well, it was designed to be a sweep right. When that completely broke down, Blount reversed his field.

2) Brady didn't 'put himself in that situation'

Yes he did. When he saw Blount reverse his field, Brady ran forward as a lead blocker. There was no harm done but I tell ya, next time the same thing happens, I want Brady to just step further into the backfield and say "LGB, I love ya brother, but you're own your own here."

3) It's football. He should not have BEEN put in that situation. He was a sitting duck. He has spent the last 3 years putting thousand of hours of free time, on a rubber leash to help him with lateral movement becuase he knew that lack of movement would destroy his career. Everything he worked on the past 3 years to save his career he could not use in the game last week. Brady on healthy knees would have been able to get out of there quicker.

What are you talking about? Do you even know the play we are discussing? Brady is standing on the 15 yard line watching the play break down on the right side of the o-line. When Blount reverses his field, Brady runs forward to lead the way.

I get what he was doing. It is his instinct to be competitive and do anything to help the team. But next time, I want Tom to stay right on the 15 instead of charging forward as an impromptu lead blocker.

 

[XLIX]

"Brady could have chosen to drift backwards out of the play." Drift backwards????

Knee.

Mobility.

He didn't put himself in the game. That is a coaching decision.

You may agree with that coaching decision and that's fine.

But Brady could not move out of the way as he would a weeks earlier in San Francisco where his mobility in and out of the pocket was far better. He was exceptionally vulnerable and we should all thank Richardson for not ending his career right there.

I think it is clear you are talking about a completely different play than me and Quantum Mechanic, and that is where our miscommunication lies.

 

[shmessy]

Not the players desicion? Did I miss the part where Gronk didn't want to play and was forced to?

.

Oh, what happened to "football players play football"???????

Now you say it is THEIR decision?


Players play. Coaches decide.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

"Brady could have chosen to drift backwards out of the play." Drift backwards????

Knee.

Mobility.

He didn't put himself in the game. That is a coaching decision.

You may agree with that coaching decision and that's fine.

But Brady could not move out of the way as he would a weeks earlier in San Francisco where his mobility in and out of the pocket was far better. He was exceptionally vulnerable and we should all thank Richardson for not ending his career right there.

You are claiming that Brady's knee hurt so much that he couldn't drift backwards a few yards but simultaneously OK enough that he could position himself in front of Blount and run along with the play in front of Blount?!?

The called play was a sweep to the right. Blount took the handoff and went to the right. The NYJ defense closed it off and Blount turned around and went left. As he got near Brady, Brady moved forward to assume a position in front of Blount and then ran along with the play maintaining his position in front of Blount.

That was all affirmative, explicit actions by Brady to be in that situation. To avoid it all he needed to do was stand still (or perhaps take a step or two backwards) as Blount came back near him.

 

[shmessy]

I get what he was doing. It is his instinct to be competitive and do anything to help the team. But next time, I want Tom to stay right on the 15 instead of charging forward as an impromptu lead blocker.

"It is his instinct to be competitive and do anything to help the team"

Which is why there aren't any more player/coaches in the NFL.

Which is why he should not have been in that situation. His base initial instinct was to run ahead and lead block - you can almost see the "Oh ****" look on his face halfway through that when the brain kicked into gear.

THAT right there is why you don't put a 39 year old franchise QB who had been on the shelf until Friday right before the stretch drive against a 3-7 team whom you only need to score 17+ to beat.

Let's face it, people's minds on this are not going to change. Some believe one way and others see it the other way. So be it.

 

[shmessy]

You are claiming that Brady's knee hurt so much that he couldn't drift backwards a few yards but simultaneously OK enough that he could position himself in front of Blount and run along with the play in front of Blount?!?

You lost me at the word "run".

 

[Dorito Dink]

Now THAT makes too much sense. But isn't he really is more of a Develin type than a line blocking TE? Don't think he replaces a Gronk - - but he sure would add a more offensive-type HB to complement Develin.

I think of Reece as more of a Keith Byars than a Develin. Might be a good extra complement.

Also, Sudfeld is out there too and knows the offense.

Yeah, I would put Reece more in line with a Hernandez H-back type which still allows you to utilize the 2 TE set similar to 2010-2013. Bennet's skillset is similar to Gronk's (i.e. just as good of a blocker as a receiver) and Reece can play the Hern role without the off field killing.

I'm sure BB has considered everything in mitigating the impact of Gronk's absence but just my initial thoughts

 

[shmessy]

Yeah, I would put Reece more in line with a Hernandez H-back type which still allows you to utilize the 2 TE set similar to 2010-2013. Bennet's skillset is similar to Gronk's (i.e. just as good of a blocker as a receiver) and Reece can play the Hern role without the off field killing.

I'm sure BB has considered everything in mitigating the impact of Gronk's absence but just my initial thoughts

I see Reece as a much better (and motivated) blocker than Hernandez. I still see him more like Keith Byars.

 

[XLIX]

"It is his instinct to be competitive and do anything to help the team"

Which is why there aren't any more player/coaches in the NFL.

Which is why he should not have been in that situation. His base initial instinct was to run ahead and lead block - you can almost see the "Oh ****" look on his face halfway through that when the brain kicked into gear.

THAT right there is why you don't put a 39 year old franchise QB who had been on the shelf until Friday right before the stretch drive against a 3-7 team whom you only need to score 17+ to beat.

I don't care what the Jets' record is, they always play NE tough in the Meadowlands. NE had a hard enough time beating them with the greatest QB of all time playing. I don't know why you're so sure they would cruise to an easy victory with Garoppolo.

 

[supafly]

Can you please stop with implying that Brady/Playcalling has some kind of blame here ?

Are you seriously claiming that at deep route is more dangerous than inline blocking, wham blocking or his usual seam routes ? If the Jets player landing on his back caused this then there is pretty good chance that this hit was literally merely the straw which broke Gronk's back and there was an overseen/undiagnosed issue with one of the discs. This could have happened on any other play in the game.

Given how thorough the medicals exam were based on the Pats/Gronk letter you can't even blame anyone for rushing him back.

In fact, I'd turn your criticism around and say that the playcalling was already conservative and rather protective of Gronk since he didn't block much and didn't work the middle of the field until the went out. It's ridiculous to claim that the team did anything wrong here.

No one is saying "the team did anything wrong," but there are plenty of people who sure wish Brady would've thought twice about targeting him in that specific fashion.

You can choose to agree/disagree, IDGAF, but this was the second time we've lost Gronk right before the postseason for the year on what basically amounts to a throw away where Brady led him to give up his entire body like a crash dummy on a meaningless, Slater-esque type of downfield heave.

Football is football, but apparently no one learned anything from the last time and that's a shame. Brady should never throw that ridiculous ball and Gronk should start to realize the difference between playing tough and being too reckless. Use him for seam routes and blocking. More Jason Witten and less Tasmanian Devil. There's really no reason to throw that ball (at least to Gronkowski specifically), and there's little reason for him to need to give up his body like a crash test dummy when he's already battling injury and has proven to be succeptable to ruining our postseason. The series of events proved to show poor judgement.

 

[Tony2046]

Really hate this "he shouldn't have been out there" hindsight stuff.

This injury had zero to do with the chest injury. Pats could have held him out until the playoffs and then on the first drive of the playoffs this exact thing could have happened. So what would be the hindsight table pounding then? Should have held him out another week?

Is it hindsight or just another droplet of "evidence" they'll use to support their foresighted doom and gloom predictions?

 

[supafly]

I honestly don't understand how you can think that stretching out on deep balls is more dangerous than any of the blocking or middle of the field stuff Gronk is doing.

Any run play where he was blocking inline I was holding my breath for nobody to fall sideways or from behind into his legs or back. Similarly, on any of the vintage seam routes I was holding my breath for him not to be tackled at knee level.

I'm going to go ahead and throw out the obvious "because he's sprawling out his entire body at full speed in mid air," which increases his chances of breaking bones? I mean, the dude has a bionic arm....I can't believe I'm even having this conversation.

It's like telling your kids to quit jumping off the roof and your neighbor coming over and saying that "kids get injured playing outside all the time." I think it may be time to start trying to use some common sense, that's all. No one is calling for Gronk to play like a wussy.

 

[luuked]

No one is saying "the team did anything wrong," but there are plenty of people who sure wish Brady would've thought twice about targeting him in that specific fashion.

You can choose to agree/disagree, IDGAF, but this was the second time we've lost Gronk right before the postseason for the year on a meaningless throw away where Brady led him to give up his entire body like a crash dummy on a meaningless, Slater-esque type of throw.

Football is football, but apparently no one learned anything from the last time and that's a shame. Brady should never throw that ridiculous ball and Gronk should start to realize the difference between playing tough and being too reckless. Use him for seam routes and blocking. More Jason Witten and less Tasmanian Devil. There's really no reason to throw that ball (at least to Gronkowski specifically), and there's little reason for him to need to give up his body like a crash test dummy when he's already battling injury and has proven to be succeptable to ruining our postseason. The series of events proved to show poor judgement.

??????

You want him to block and run seam routes which both are substantially more dangerous than a deep pass into completely open space ?

What meaningless throwaway are you talking about ? Gronk had 1-2 steps on the trailing DB and Brady missed him by a bit. That was not a throwaway but a normal deep shot that would had us up 7:0 early.

Seriously, in what universe can you even think about blaming Brady on anything here ? We are not talking about a play where he lead him into a hit it was all open space in front of him. At the enda 200lb DB landed on him like on any dime-a-dozen play. If that's something he should avoid then he really should retire because there is no safe play for him anymore.

Are you sure you didn't hit your head against something hard and are concussed ? wtf ?

 

[supafly]

??????

You want him to block and run seam routes which both are substantially more dangerous than a deep pass into completely open space ?

What meaningless throwaway are you talking about ? Gronk had 1-2 steps on the trailing DB and Brady missed him by a bit. That was not a throwaway but a normal deep shot that would had us up 7:0 early.

Seriously, in what universe can you even think about blaming Brady on anything here ? We are not talking about a play where he lead him into a hit it was all open space in front of him. At the enda 200lb DB landed on him like on any dime-a-dozen play. If that's something he should avoid then he really should retire because there is no safe play for him anymore.

Are you sure you didn't hit your head against something hard and are concussed ? wtf ?

We have a difference of opinion here @luuked. Yes, I believe that there was a series of unfortunate events that they probably could've learned from....the last time it happened. I stated my opinion pretty clearly to you in a post above.

No one is at fault and no one is necessarily to blame, but I didn't like those decisions myself. What more is there to say?

 

[shmessy]

I don't care what the Jets' record is, they always play NE tough in the Meadowlands. NE had a hard enough time beating them with the greatest QB of all time playing. I don't know why you're so sure they would cruise to an easy victory with Garoppolo.

Where did I say they would cruise to an easy victory?

I'm thrilled that Brady was able to gut it out and be 60% of the GOAT that he is.

IMHO, JG at 100% ~= TFB at 60%.

And, thank you again, Sheldon Richardson for saving our season.

 

[shmessy]

We have a difference of opinion here @luuked. Yes, I believe that there was a series of unfortunate events that they probably could've learned from....the last time it happened. I stated my opinion pretty clearly to you in a post above.

No one is at fault and no one is necessarily to blame, but I didn't like those decisions myself. What more is there to say?

Well said. And I don't know why @luuked felt the need for the personal insult at you, but good for you for being above it.

 

[luuked]

We have a difference of opinion here @luuked. Yes, I believe that there was a series of unfortunate events that they probably could've learned from....the last time it happened. I stated my opinion pretty clearly to you in a post above.

No one is at fault and no one is necessarily to blame, but I didn't like those decisions myself. What more is there to say?

Explain to me just logically how inline blocking or seam routes are ok but deep shots into open space are somehow dangerous. I just don't understand how you can claim that.

When you block you have from DL over DEs to your own teammates potentially falling into your back or legs at sometime the most absurd angles. I don't think i need to explain why seam routes are maybe the most dangerous route in the entire game. Compare this to an open field deep throw where you have no one in front of you..

Sorry I just don't understand your position on this..