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The ineligible package...


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The play is in the Madden or NCAA video games

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How much of a moron does Harbaugh feel like when he gets home and has the formation explained to him by his kids?
 
Nah. The only trick we need is that one where our guys are ready to roll heads at kickoff, especially after a bye week. If we can get past the AFC Championship game, that bye week before the SB will worry me again. Both previous Superbowls against the Giants, we started off like ****, and yesterday was no different.

I honestly felt more of a relief at the end of yesterday's game. A relief that we didn't lose this game, because we came out playing like crap, not even giving our best for a full 60 minutes. We have to start off better than that. We can't keep wasting the first half of a football game, to get back up to speed. I had faith our guys would wake up, but I just don't want to see that ever again. I loved how Dallas and the Lions started last week. I expect us to be in form next week. And BB has to figure out how to keep our guys ready like that over a bye week.

Agreed, but we did fine with bye weeks in the past. This teams got the horses IMO and if that narrow escape yesterday is the fuel I don't think you're getting anymore sleepwalking starts.

Chemistry is a very strange thing. Sometimes teams with chip on shoulder attitudes and no resume have it, teams with all pro lineups don't.

Scientists should dissect that 2001 team, they had the weirdest bunch of also rans and never wases with just a core of the defense from a coach who abandoned them and a skinny kid with a grudge over being bypassed in school and the draft. Very strange.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vereen could still be used as a runner couldn't he. The option to use him on a reverse for example is still there. It just strikes me that there are so many options out of this formation. I take your point about it being a gimmick but I think it's a gimmick that could work on a game by game basis like other teams use the wildcat. Personally I like it's possibilities more than the wildcat.
I would blitz it
 
when the defense does stuff like this, don't we call it disguising the coverage?
 
Somebody spoon feed me on this point. Vereen actually is ineligible on that play because he's not on the end and he's not lined up off the line, right? The only reason the notifying the ref thing happens is that his number is one of the automatically could be eligible variety, right? And so the only thing that would confuse the defense is that Vereen would typically be eligible, right? If you know the rules of formation, he's not eligible on that play.

Do I have it right?
 
FWIW, it's not the exact same play Alabama ran. They sneaked an eligible TE as an uneligible lineman (not uncommon), but I do not recall a scenario where a WR split wide declared himself as ineligible.

Very true. It's the same play technically, though.
 
I'm not an NFL coach or anything, but if I was confused as to why the ref was screaming that a normally eligible receiver was ineligible, I would probably burn a TO in that case in order to make sure my defense was set correctly, or make substitutions (whatever the case maybe). In all likelihood, that would have taken any "advantage" away from the opposing team and they would likely change back to a more conventional formations. Right?

...... But becasue I'm not an NFL coach, I probably woulda getten burned by it one time. Then would have def. picked up on it the 2nd or 3rd time. An NFL coach wouldn't be as gullible as little ole me though, right?
 
Somebody spoon feed me on this point. Vereen actually is ineligible on that play because he's not on the end and he's not lined up off the line, right? The only reason the notifying the ref thing happens is that his number is one of the automatically could be eligible variety, right? And so the only thing that would confuse the defense is that Vereen would typically be eligible, right? If you know the rules of formation, he's not eligible on that play.

Do I have it right?
Yes
 
I would blitz it

But that's why I think it works with Brady specifically. A. There's a strong chance he'd read the blitz, and B. His quick release gives him a good chance of beating the blitz. I think an A gap blitz works best with the Patriot's struggles with interior pressure.
 
Reading some haters on the net trying to spin this as the Pats weren't good enough to win, and had to resort to trickery and deception.

Based on that theory I guess teams that employ play action passes, zone blitzes, overloading the defense on one side, bunch formations, onside kicks and fake punts don't deserve to win either.


As @BelichickFan noted, the Matt Chatham column is a must-read. Bottom line is that the Baltimore defense did not react in the manner that they should have to something unfamiliar.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/hot-mess-nfl-rulebook-strikes-again

The real problem here was the way the Ravens handled this surprise situation. They focused on the amount of time the officials gave them to figure out who the eligible receivers, but after clocking the multiple plays the Patriots used the concept, the times ranged from 6-8 seconds between the time the ineligibles were announced and the snap of the ball. That's more than enough time...not even close to hurry-up or an unfair advantage of any kind.

What the Ravens should have done is not focus on who they have, but instead check out of any defensive call that requires them to matchup presnap. In other words, when the formation is confusing, check out of man coverage calls immediately into a zone one where it doesn't matter if you fully understand who's eligible.

Every team in the NFL has what we referred to as a "safe" call...a presnap zone check that makes sure there are no mistakes if something bizarre happens because the defense just guards areas and not specific people. Who's eligible at that point doesn't really matter. The Ravens have a rookie middle linebacker, I'm not sure if that contributed to them not checking into a better call. But the players on the field have to put the defense in the best position possible. The NFL isn't college, there's plenty of onfield autonomy to make the necessary changes when the other team is trying to screw with you.

What makes the Ravens reaction so egregious, is the gimmick was used several times on the same drive and they never adjusted or figured it out (below). Once is understandable. Not checking into a safe call cost them that entire series. There are plenty of veteran defensive players on the field for the Ravens. Somebody has to get them into a better call.

If the players on defense weren't smart enough (or well enough coached) to check to a zone as Chatham outlined above, then it is incumbent on Harbaugh to call a timeout and instruct his team on how to handle the situation. His inflexibility and inability to adapt places the loss on his shoulders. Harbaugh is one of the better coaches in the NFL, but he got taken to the woodshed in this game.
 
What do you do as a coach or defensive C when you see a formation that has you baffled?
A) Cry to the refs?
B) Cry after the game it's cheating?
C) Call a timeout?
D) (Harbaugh Specific) Do A & B?

When an offense puts 6 receivers on the field (which includes a primarily blocking TE), regardless of how the formation is, do you?
A) Cry to the refs?
B) Cry after the game it's cheating?
C) Call a timeout
D) Put in personnel, at the time the O package comes in, that matches the lack of a true OL on the field?
E) Do D then, if inadequate, do C?
D) (Harbaugh Specific) Do A & B?

This, from a 'gaining an advantage' perspective, is no different than snapping the ball after the D is slow to substitute, catching them with 12 on the field. It is no different than coaching receivers to push off from a defender using one hand so it won't be called. This is looking at the rules and finding ways to take advantage of them. Teams that don't look at the rules to try to take advantage of them are teams not doing everything they can to win. The Ravens do this but, apparently, they do not like others to. Again, Harbaugh you utter cry baby, call a timeout if it has you baffled and figure it out.
 
Sorry if it's been posted, I didn't see it. I thought many would want to digest it and this is a great article that explains it.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/...-trick-play-that-got-john-harbaugh-mad-ravens

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Vereen is covered by the receiver on his right, thus pretty easy to identify as ineligible. Notice Vereen pulling back on his route to make sure he doesn't get called for the foul.

It also explains the difference between this version, and the one Alabama used to beat LSU in overtime. The difference is we only used 4OL, they still had 5, so BB is even more bad ass for taking that risk.
 
But that's why I think it works with Brady specifically. A. There's a strong chance he'd read the blitz, and B. His quick release gives him a good chance of beating the blitz. I think an A gap blitz works best with the Patriot's struggles with interior pressure.
If you jam all 6 receivers and send 5 against 4 the d will win more than the o IMO
 
Reading some haters on the net trying to spin this as the Pats weren't good enough to win, and had to resort to trickery and deception.

Based on that theory I guess teams that employ play action passes, zone blitzes, overloading the defense on one side, bunch formations, onside kicks and fake punts don't deserve to win either.


As @BelichickFan noted, the Matt Chatham column is a must-read. Bottom line is that the Baltimore defense did not react in the manner that they should have to something unfamiliar.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/hot-mess-nfl-rulebook-strikes-again

The real problem here was the way the Ravens handled this surprise situation. They focused on the amount of time the officials gave them to figure out who the eligible receivers, but after clocking the multiple plays the Patriots used the concept, the times ranged from 6-8 seconds between the time the ineligibles were announced and the snap of the ball. That's more than enough time...not even close to hurry-up or an unfair advantage of any kind.

What the Ravens should have done is not focus on who they have, but instead check out of any defensive call that requires them to matchup presnap. In other words, when the formation is confusing, check out of man coverage calls immediately into a zone one where it doesn't matter if you fully understand who's eligible.

Every team in the NFL has what we referred to as a "safe" call...a presnap zone check that makes sure there are no mistakes if something bizarre happens because the defense just guards areas and not specific people. Who's eligible at that point doesn't really matter. The Ravens have a rookie middle linebacker, I'm not sure if that contributed to them not checking into a better call. But the players on the field have to put the defense in the best position possible. The NFL isn't college, there's plenty of onfield autonomy to make the necessary changes when the other team is trying to screw with you.

What makes the Ravens reaction so egregious, is the gimmick was used several times on the same drive and they never adjusted or figured it out (below). Once is understandable. Not checking into a safe call cost them that entire series. There are plenty of veteran defensive players on the field for the Ravens. Somebody has to get them into a better call.

If the players on defense weren't smart enough (or well enough coached) to check to a zone as Chatham outlined above, then it is incumbent on Harbaugh to call a timeout and instruct his team on how to handle the situation. His inflexibility and inability to adapt places the loss on his shoulders. Harbaugh is one of the better coaches in the NFL, but he got taken to the woodshed in this game.

Yeah, I thought that was telling [besides whining about being deceived, lol] It's the playoffs; if you don't know what's going on, you damn well better take a timeout and figure it out.

How many times did they pull that gimmick, anyone know?
 
Yeah, I thought that was telling [besides whining about being deceived, lol] It's the playoffs; if you don't know what's going on, you damn well better take a timeout and figure it out.

How many times did they pull that gimmick, anyone know?
Three
 
This is the same league where, before they made a rule change, it was common to break the huddle with 12 men and have one of them trot off the field.

This is a whole lot more conventional -- defense, know who is eligible and who is not on a play.
 
You've got to think "The guy they asked me to pass cover has lined up on the line, and he's covered by another end." There should be an "alert" call to get out of that coverage --- you call over "my guy is not eligible!" Figure out who is on the other side.
 
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