Camp Battle at WR - Kenbrell Thompkins vs Josh Boyce

[Brady6]

It is always possible to keep an additional player at one position at the expense of a roster spot somewhere else.

We all agree that there are question marks in the WR position. We all should understand that if everyone is healthy, that only 4 receivers will get significant reps, and the 4th may not get all that many.

Personally, I would keep the extra player if we had to choose NOW. But that isn't the case. It is very, very likely that we the so-called extra position will resolve itself before the season starts, or in the first 4 weeks. The reason we want an extra is that we haven't a clue which players are our best receivers. The answer to that question is to have camp and preseason competition. The answer is not to carry an extra player.

DI does continue to suggest that we need to keep an extra player because our receivers are so frail and have such a poor injury history. Well, I guess that is a good reason to keep an extra inactive receiver. Perhaps we need a 7th receiver more than a 10th DL or some of the other position. After all, I currently have a base squad of 47. The last 6 could be at almost any position.

What it comes down to is outside of Gronkowski and Hooman do we even have a TE worthy of a roster spot? With Vollmer, Cannon, and Fleming we have the ability to use Nate Solder at TE in blocking situations, so maybe we keep 2 TEs and keep an extra WR because they are the superior player.

 

[patsinthesnow]

IMO, KT is competing with Amendola & Dobson for serious playing time across Edelman, rather than a roster spot. Boyce OTOH, looks like an odd man out if we stay with 5 WRs + Slater. Gallon may be a better option than Boyce as well.

 

[Marqui]

Boyce is a lock on the roster for kick returning alone.

 

[Danger Zone]

I will confess that this years camp battles has me feeling a lot more empathy for Rex Ryan being in the position to have to let Woodhead go.

Between Gallon, Thompkins, Finch or even Boyce there seems like there might be the potential we might be forced to nake a similiar decision/mistake.

 

[Gwedd]

I'll say this much: There are any number of teams out there that would love to have the problems at WR we are discussing. As it stands, we seem to have an embarrassment of riches and that is never a bad thing for a team to have to deal with.

It's going to be one of the most interesting Training Camps this team has had in many years. I suspect it's likely going to stay that way from now up through the year after Brady finally hangs up his cleats here.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Boyce is a lock on the roster for kick returning alone.

Boyce didn't show anything last year to tell us that his kick returning is worthy of a roster spot. Who's to say Gallon isn't a better KR?

 

[Marqui]

Boyce didn't show anything last year to tell us that his kick returning is worthy of a roster spot.

Disagree, looked fast to me.

 

[captain stone]

I'll say this much: There are any number of teams out there that would love to have the problems at WR we are discussing. As it stands, we seem to have an embarrassment of riches and that is never a bad thing for a team to have to deal with...

"An embarrassment of riches" is a phrase I would not have thought to use to describe our situation
at WR. An embarrassment of slot receivers is more like it. When Brandon LaFell is your #1 outside WR, then you haven't done enough to strengthen the position.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Disagree, looked fast to me.

speed is just one (albeit probably the most important) facet of kick returning. Jeremy Gallon also has speed.

 

[mgteich]

7 WRs and 3 QBs ??? I don't believe it. Someone has to go
or put on PUP or IRed.

There are many other ways to free up a roster spot. Getting rid of the 3rd QB isn't the only way of carrying 7 WR's if that is what's needed. For example, we could carry only 9 defensive backs for 4 weeks. Perhaps, we don't really NEED 5 safeties anyway.

If you need a rationalization, consider that we carrying 4 WR's, a KR, a PR and a STer.

 

[Joey007]

I'm not understanding this high praise for Boyce. If I do recall, he only had nine catches last year. While the speed and talent is undeniable, he is yet to prove to be anything more than guys like Tate and Price were. And why is everyone saying he's a lock as a KR? I remember him having one or two nice returns last year, but he's yet to prove he can be a stud at KR either. Just a lot of unproven talent if you ask me, maybe he'll change my mind in the next few months. We'll see.

 

[Se7eN]

With the logjam at WR, does this mean we used a draft pick on Gallon simply for him to go to the practice squad?

 

[patchick]

"An embarrassment of riches" is a phrase I would not have thought to use to describe our situation
at WR. An embarrassment of slot receivers is more like it. When Brandon LaFell is your #1 outside WR, then you haven't done enough to strengthen the position.

I'm not on board with the "embarrassment of riches" either, but I don't see the imbalance quite the way you do. Edelman and Amendola are certainly similar players, but Dobson, LaFell, Boyce and Thompkins bring different skills to the party, and I don't consider any of them slot receivers per se.

To me, the problem with the WR roster is a surfeit of players who look like solid, legitimate #3 receivers...and no legitimate #1. So not so much "an embarrassment of riches" as "a burgeoning middle class."

 

[Joker]

the problem with the WR roster is a surfeit of players who look like solid

a "surfeit" of players? are you deliberately trying to make me look dumb?(ok, I do THAT on my own). Either that or you are a professional in the area of contracts or law. My ex-Superior Court judge grandfather would say surfeit a lot, and when I'd look at him with a quizzical face he'd always say.."you don't have a surplus of brain cells Joey...the world needs ditchdiggers too so you're in luck"..

I definitely agree, the Pats have a surfeit of #3 and #4 types in their receiving corps.

 

[patchick]

I definitely agree, the Pats have a surfeit of #3 and #4 types in their receiving corps.

Heh. Made you say "surfeit"!

(No legal training here, just lack of sleep. When my brain slows down the first thing to go is situational vocabulary awareness. My passive vocabulary starts to run amok, pompous precision trampling the tender shoots of slang and profanity.)

 

[Deus Irae]

a "surfeit" of players? are you deliberately trying to make me look dumb?(ok, I do THAT on my own). Either that or you are a professional in the area of contracts or law. My ex-Superior Court judge grandfather would say surfeit a lot, and when I'd look at him with a quizzical face he'd always say.."you don't have a surplus of brain cells Joey...the world needs ditchdiggers too so you're in luck"..

I definitely agree, the Pats have a surfeit of #3 and #4 types in their receiving corps.

The issue seems to be that they may also have a dearth of true #1 and #2 types.

 

[mayoclinic]

To me, the problem with the WR roster is a surfeit of players who look like solid, legitimate #3 receivers...and no legitimate #1. So not so much "an embarrassment of riches" as "a burgeoning middle class."

1. It's too early to tell whether any of the 2nd year players will develop into more than just "solid, legitimate #3 receivers".

2. Having "no legitimate #1" isn't necessarily a problem. We won 3 SBs without a dominant #1 receiver. New Orleans has had a top 5 offense for 8 years without a dominant #1 receiver (I'm not counting Jimmy Graham, just as I'm not counting Rob Gronkowski; Marques Colston is very good but not a clear #1 WR IMO), as has Green Bay since 2010 (again, a bunch of good WRs, but no dominant #1).

I agree we need more from the WR position than we got in 2013, but I think there's a decent chance that we can get it. It's certainly not a given, but it's too early to pass judgment, IMO.

 

[patchick]

1. It's too early to tell whether any of the 2nd year players will develop into more than just "solid, legitimate #3 receivers".

2. Having "no legitimate #1" isn't necessarily a problem. We won 3 SBs without a dominant #1 receiver.

Oh, I completely agree. I'm not bearish on the receiver corps at all -- it wouldn't surprise me to see Dobson, Amendola or LaFell have a breakout season, and even a solid, workmanlike season from 2 of the 3 should do the trick. I'm just saying that from the imperfect vantage point of June, the lack of established starting wideouts is the glaring question mark. (Can question marks glare?)

 

[Gwedd]

Oh, I completely agree. I'm not bearish on the receiver corps at all -- it wouldn't surprise me to see Dobson, Amendola or LaFell have a breakout season, and even a solid, workmanlike season from 2 of the 3 should do the trick. I'm just saying that from the imperfect vantage point of June, the lack of established starting wideouts is the glaring question mark. (Can question marks glare?)

yes, they can glare..... and haunt your dreams with grammatical haughtiness.

I still think that we have a solid WR core. Our rookies are now sophomores and, I firmly believe, better acquainted with the playbook and Brady's on-field desires for each play. Tell me another team who wouldn't love to have the development potential of Thompkins, Boyce & Dobsen. LaFell, Amendola, Edelman & Slater? Good to go. The thing is, you can't just judge them by their individual talent. You have to use Brady as a force multiplier, plus New England's scheming to use one players skills in certain situations against specific defensive players.

It all comes down to situational football, and I am quite optimistic about this upcoming season. Yeah, I'm a Homer, though I'm not a dyed-in-the-wool, foam-at-the-mouth type like some. But still and all, when looking at the whole offensive package, I can see an awful lot of positive things here, especially if players stay healthy.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:

1. I think people should look at Boyce as being a faster, stronger, and more explosive David Givens. IIRC they are both the same size and had equally nondescript rookie seasons. As Kontra stated, If he makes a 2nd year leap he could prove to be a huge surprise contributor. But the think is, as of this moment he's not a necessary piece. If all goes well this season, Boyce will have time to carve out a big role on ST's and be quality depth at WR

2. I think people are really under rating Thompkins. He came out of nowhere to have the 2nd best year any rookie WR ever had under BB. If he improved his strength this off season, I can see him become a slightly bigger Branch. A guy who will excel against zone D's because he accelerates well out of his breaks. Hopefully his new found strength will help him be better against press coverage this year. I'm pretty sure he'll make the roster, especially if he makes a role for himself on special teams. If he can't that would be the ONLY reason he'd be cut.

3. DA, JE, Dobson and LaFell are the top 4 WR's to start. How they are going to be used and what roles they'll be asked to take, will be of great interest to all of us this TC. IIRC, BB made a point on a couple of occasions last season to point out that Edelman and DA have different skill sets. This despite the fact that most fans and the media continue to lump them together as "slot receivers". Is BB just BSing us, or will they carve out separate roles on this team.

4. Despite the obvious lack of "star quality" at WR. I'm very comfortable with what we have on the roster. 6 deep, its the most talent we've had at the position in several years. Our offense requires good, precise, and dependable WR's. Diva's need not apply.

3.