How Can We Judge Whether Our Receivers Are Any Good?

[yukon cornelius]

The times that they were open and 10 either didn’t throw to them or threw poorly and exponentially higher than any of those issues.

i wholly disagree......especially when you factor line play into the decision making, the time to throw, etc.......and some of those "poor throws" are a result of receivers running poor routes or not being where they are supposed to........this receiving corps is poor, and i question the effectiveness of the receiving coach as well

 

[Ring 6]

i wholly disagree......especially when you factor line play into the decision making, the time to throw, etc.......and some of those "poor throws" are a result of receivers running poor routes or not being where they are supposed to........this receiving corps is poor, and i question the effectiveness of the receiving coach as well

That’s not what the film shows.

 

[Rob0729]

Pop Douglas has the potential to be good to very good. Bourne is good, but probably a two or three at best. Henry is a good, not great TE. Everyone else is mediocre. We don't need to see anything else to see that. I don't know if we need to see anymore.

I still wonder if Thornton might have turned into something with better coaching. He does have the speed. His fundaments suck though. I have questioned Troy Brown for a while. I just wonder if Thornton just doesn't get it or could he have gotten it with better coaching and a little hand holding.

 

[turkeyneck]

Pop Douglas has the potential to be good to very good. Bourne is good, but probably a two or three at best. Henry is a good, not great TE. Everyone else is mediocre. We don't need to see anything else to see that. I don't know if we need to see anymore.

I still wonder if Thornton might have turned into something with better coaching. He does have the speed. His fundaments suck though. I have questioned Troy Brown for a while. I just wonder if Thornton just doesn't get it or could he have gotten it with better coaching and a little hand holding.

Bourne could really thrive like Hogan or Amendola did if we had a true 1 to take some attention away from him.

Thornton is a huge disappointment. I watched him a lot at Baylor and expected much more from him. Is it scheme, bad QB, bad WR coaching, or is he just thick? There should have been much more impact from him at this stage.

 

[yukon cornelius]

That’s not what the film shows.

so you know the play call and the reads?

 

[Toofy]

Astevenson being injured is a blessing in disguise. Zappe will need to make more throws. We will know which wide receivers and offensive linemen are worth their salt.

We can take some positives if Boutte shines across and gesicki returns to some form . I feel this is a 3 year rebuild and we might be better off signing kirk cousins rather than Caleb or drake maye if available. We should draft Marvin Harrison Jr with our pick .

 

[Ring 6]

so you know the play call and the reads?

You can gather it from watching the plays. It’s not that complicated on all 22 to watch the play develop and understand what the reads were. Routes are designed with purpose they aren’t just random.
After the fact, on film, seeing the entire play, it’s not very difficult to break down what they were trying to do.

 

[Guts]

Bourne could really thrive like Hogan or Amendola did if we had a true 1 to take some attention away from him.

Thornton is a huge disappointment. I watched him a lot at Baylor and expected much more from him. Is it scheme, bad QB, bad WR coaching, or is he just thick? There should have been much more impact from him at this stage.

The WR FA class this offseason is a good one
I'd go after Evans or Higgins and probably draft a WR in the 2nd round after getting a QB in the 1st

 

[Ring 6]

Astevenson being injured is a blessing in disguise. Zappe will need to make more throws. We will know which wide receivers and offensive linemen are worth their salt.

We can take some positives if Boutte shines across and gesicki returns to some form . I feel this is a 3 year rebuild and we might be better off signing kirk cousins rather than Caleb or drake maye if available. We should draft Marvin Harrison Jr with our pick .

Why would it be a 3 year rebuild?
They have 100 million in cap space. That’s 40% of the roster.
You have a very good defense already. You need a qb, who by himself just by not sucking makes this a winning team, and then the rest of 100 mill plus a draft to surround him.

 

[Jangles]

They're not

This is the correct answer

You don’t need to watch film

 

[Toofy]

Why would it be a 3 year rebuild?
They have 100 million in cap space. That’s 40% of the roster.
You have a very good defense already. You need a qb, who by himself just by not sucking makes this a winning team, and then the rest of 100 mill plus a draft to surround him.

Well there is nobody decent who is still on contract outside of judon.
You need 2 offensive tackles, 2 tight ends, 1 pass catching back, replacement for ram who will leave this year and 2 wide receivers and to top that a QB .

Trent brown, hunter Henry, uche, Dugger onwenu , gesicki , bourne are free agents . You need to resign at least 4 of them and good chunk of 100 million will go towards that and you are left with maybe 40 million in change .

No marquee agents are lined up . The good ones are retained by respective teams and we will end up overpaying for likes of Anderson, agholor, jonnu , Riley reiff , sanu etc.

We need to hit the draft outta the park in 2024 , 2025 and draft high potential free agents who still have not showed their potential... someone like Bourne.

2022 draft looks more like 2019 - terrific bust . Those busts are catching up to us big time.

Belichick has pulled the team back miles more than MACs QB ineptitude. If you still believe that bills drafting is not the problem and 100 million of free agency money is peanuts compared to the giant sized hole we have all across offense and potentially defense in 2025 , I dunno what to say.

 

[mgteich]

.Why would it be a 3 year rebuild?

They have 100 million in cap space. That’s 40% of the roster.
You have a very good defense already. You need a qb, who by himself just by not sucking makes this a winning team, and then the rest of 100 mill plus a draft to surround him.

Call me after, we; have 2 QB's and 2 OT's (3 if McDermott or Anderson aren't good enough to be our swing OT)
====================
To be clear, I agree with your position. However, I think it more realistic to look at our situation after we use resources for QB and OT. For example, one option is to sign a midlevel QB and push money forward, giving us a cap hit of say $15M for a starter or backup, depending on when our top drafted QB is ready. I suppose that we could re-sign Brown and Onwenu for $25M AAV, and draft an OT is the 2nd or 3rd.

That leaves us with $60M and draft picks which could be enough for our re-signs or replacements on Defense, plus our additional needs on Offense; 3 TE's, WR, RB
===============================
I think that finding 2 QB's who don't suck plus 3 OT's who don't suck is a tall order. The rest is normal business as usual, with a reasonable cap available.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Still waiting for Harry TT to have his break out game...

 

[yukon cornelius]

You can gather it from watching the plays. It’s not that complicated on all 22 to watch the play develop and understand what the reads were. Routes are designed with purpose they aren’t just random.
After the fact, on film, seeing the entire play, it’s not very difficult to break down what they were trying to do.

so the answer is no, you do not know the calls, correct?

 

[Ring 6]

so the answer is no, you do not know the calls, correct?

Wrong the correct answer is if you understand the game and watch the play it’s pretty obvious.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Wrong the correct answer is if you understand the game and watch the play it’s pretty obvious.

i've read your posts for years, i'm really not sure of your understanding of what you are claiming you watch

our WR play has been horrendous......QB play has not been good, OL has been horrible (LT was a turnrstile Sunday, again)

our receivers (I'm including Gesecki in this) have run horrible routes, they have run the wrong routes, they have given up on routes, they have at times put in less than professional effort (case in point Parker's lack of a downfield block Sunday), they have made poor effort to get to the ball.....and to say anything less is either a result of not knowing what you're seeing, or having an agenda

even Douglas lacks real NFL skill at this point......he has run lousy routes at times, he has made lousy adjustments to the ball, he has made the wrong reads......he at least has dynamic YAC ability, but don't let it overshadow the fact that he was a 6th round pick for a reason, and there's been little development into an NFL quality receiver beyond that dynamic playmaking ability

Pats need better QB play, they need better WRs, they need better Oline play (swing tackle & C especially.......trent brown when in there has been fine, a healthy Strange is fine, the right side seems solidified).....and they need better play design, and I'd argue they need an upgrade at WR coach, as much as I love Troy Brown

 

[Ring 6]

i've read your posts for years, i'm really not sure of your understanding of what you are claiming you watch

our WR play has been horrendous......QB play has not been good, OL has been horrible (LT was a turnrstile Sunday, again)

our receivers (I'm including Gesecki in this) have run horrible routes, they have run the wrong routes, they have given up on routes, they have at times put in less than professional effort (case in point Parker's lack of a downfield block Sunday), they have made poor effort to get to the ball.....and to say anything less is either a result of not knowing what you're seeing, or having an agenda

even Douglas lacks real NFL skill at this point......he has run lousy routes at times, he has made lousy adjustments to the ball, he has made the wrong reads......he at least has dynamic YAC ability, but don't let it overshadow the fact that he was a 6th round pick for a reason, and there's been little development into an NFL quality receiver beyond that dynamic playmaking ability

Pats need better QB play, they need better WRs, they need better Oline play (swing tackle & C especially.......trent brown when in there has been fine, a healthy Strange is fine, the right side seems solidified).....and they need better play design, and I'd argue they need an upgrade at WR coach, as much as I love Troy Brown

If you have been reading my posts for years then you know I understand the game and avoid knee jerk reactions.

I’m sure you can show me some consistent examples of “horrible routes” “wrong routes”, which by the way is an interesting comment coming from someone who just said you can’t know what the routes are, and “poor effort to get to the ball”. I mean if you say it happens a lot there must be many examples.

I watch film and see many plays that are routinely made if the qb makes the right read and delivers on time. It’s all over the film.
This doesn’t mean the receivers are perfect or the protection is outstanding. It means the biggest monkey wrench in the production is the qb. I don’t understand how you could watch the film and not see that, unless you have an agenda.

 

[1960Pats]

We get to judge our WRs when they're released and go to another team.

 

[RIpats88]

Can't believe this post is still even here. How many good QBs are in the league realistically? And so you are telling me no WRs showed out unless they had a good QB?

It's a nonsense take. Mike Evans played for countless QBs and put up 1k yards every year.

If a receiver is good they will show potential early. Why is pop Douglas showing it? And not Thornton in the same environment?

Too many times I've been told whether it's Dobson or Harry or Thornton "just wait they'll break out!". No they are just busts.

 

[p8ryts]

Watch the game film. Everything is so interrelated. Does the QB have time to look at more than one receiver before pressure? Did the QB identify the quick read pre snap? Does the QB look at his favorite receiver before anyone else gets a look? Does the receiver have quick moves or strength to win at the line of scrimmage? Does the receiver rely on speed? Does the QB throw the ball on time? In the Chiefs game, Zappe moved in the pocket to avoid pressure and hit Parker down field, who was closely covered. Thornton was open by three steps on the opposite side. Zappe was pressured and likely looked at Parker first. There is generally at least one receiver open, but does the QB have the time to pick and choose? Watch game film and make up your own mind.