How Can We Judge Whether Our Receivers Are Any Good?

[mgteich]

Watch the film.

I'm not an expert, and I don't know the assignments and possible changes allowed to the QB and WR.

What I do see is that Jones is a bust for us, but may be able to be a backup elsewhere.
===============================
Are you really suggesting that postesr here as skilled as NFL coaching staffs to be able to understand just how good or bad the WR's can be if the had an average NFL QB?

 

[patsinthesnow]

parker & juju are two of the worst starting wrs in the nfl, thornton is a bust & douglas has potential.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Stats are almost worthless when our QB's are so bad. BOB cannot even restrict his criticism to the privacy of team meetings and team discussions. The TV shots of the Kraft's in Germany was all telling. We have ZERO QB's who should be on the 53-man squad in 2023, unless Jones is the #4 until other teams decide whether to traded anything for him. I do see us keeing him unitl after the draft and then trading him. MAYBE, Zappe could still be worthy of a Practice Squad spot.
========
Seriously, how can we judge that the receivers are terrible or whether they any good at all. Can Thornton possibly be as bad as he looks? The vets can't be as bad as they look. A GM and coaches, perhaps different ones, will need to judge whether our current receivers should be in camp for the 2024 season. Only Douglas is a sure thing for 2024.

And, perhaps, Brown isn't all that terrible as acoach. Many, many folks have pointed out that there have been times when receivers have been wide open. Our QB's can't complete passes, and Mac's floaters are truly horrible and not worthy of an NFL QB.

Seeing how many times they make the wrong reads, run the wrong routes, and run just sloppy routes in general....yeah, they are what they show

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not an expert, and I don't know the assignments and possible changes allowed to the QB and WR.

What I do see is that Jones is a bust for us, but may be able to be a backup elsewhere.
===============================
Are you really suggesting that postesr here as skilled as NFL coaching staffs to be able to understand just how good or bad the WR's can be if the had an average NFL QB?

Well I would assume that someone making assessments like that would be able to understand the tape.
Otherwise it’s just a case of being unhappy and choosing who you want to blame without knowledge or facts

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The lack of a reliable 3rd down back in the passing game has killed the Pats in the last few years. Think about all those game winning drives, Redmon, Faulk, Vereen, White, Dion Lewis, and Rex Burkhead to name most of them. Redmon, Vereen and White, the Pats don't win those SBs without them.

Now, nothing, no 3rd down back, nobody that can block and leak out and pick up that critical 3rd down.

Now no slot receiver, Brown, Welker, Edelman, now nothing!

The Pats have never been an outside WR offense, only Branch and Moss stand out during that time.

Now the Pats find themselves without a QB too. I am not sold on either Williams or Maye. I say take the top 3 pick and draft Harrison JR. Lets see what having a elite WR does for this offense. Adding Williams or Maye to this talentless team with an iffy O-line will not bring the Pats out of the malaise they find themselves in.

Pick a Jimmy G in the off season, trade Mac for a bag of magic beans, and then spend the rest of the draft on offensive lineman and actual LBs (not Div 4 hybrid guys).

 

[mgteich]

Seeing how many times they make the wrong reads, run the wrong routes, and run just sloppy routes in general....yeah, they are what they show

I 100% agree.

And how do you know what theIr assignments are and whether they run the wrong routes?
================================
Personally, I think that Parker could catch lots of 50-50 balls from a QB the quality of the Giants third stringer.

I'm fine with signing a top WR.

New WR, Bourne, Douglas, Parker, Shuster, Boutte, a late draftee, or low-level free agent is fine for camp.

 

[Ivan]

Stats are almost worthless when our QB's are so bad. BOB cannot even restrict his criticism to the privacy of team meetings and team discussions. The TV shots of the Kraft's in Germany was all telling. We have ZERO QB's who should be on the 53-man squad in 2023, unless Jones is the #4 until other teams decide whether to traded anything for him. I do see us keeing him unitl after the draft and then trading him. MAYBE, Zappe could still be worthy of a Practice Squad spot.
========
Seriously, how can we judge that the receivers are terrible or whether they any good at all. Can Thornton possibly be as bad as he looks? The vets can't be as bad as they look. A GM and coaches, perhaps different ones, will need to judge whether our current receivers should be in camp for the 2024 season. Only Douglas is a sure thing for 2024.

And, perhaps, Brown isn't all that terrible as acoach. Many, many folks have pointed out that there have been times when receivers have been wide open. Our QB's can't complete passes, and Mac's floaters are truly horrible and not worthy of an NFL QB.

I don’t think it’s a great unit by any means, but some of them are never available ( Parker/Smith-Schuster) so they need to go. And I would get rid of Boutte as well, as I think he will always be a problem. But they can’t go WR early in this draft because QB and LT need to be priorities. However, if they go QB with the first pick, and there is a WR that is clearly a better player than any LT on the board then I would be fine with taking them first. I generally believe in taking the best player, but when it comes to your first pick and a desperate need I can see addressing the need first.

 

[Ivan]

I 100% agree.

And how do you know what theIr assignments are and whether they run the wrong routes?
================================
Personally, I think that Parker could catch lots of 50-50 balls from a QB the quality of the Giants third stringer.

I'm fine with signing a top WR.

New WR, Bourne, Douglas, Parker, Shuster, Boutte, a late draftee, or low-level free agent is fine for camp.

With the exception of a few really knowledgeable posters I think the people talking about running wrong routes and missing assignments are talking out of their asses.

Likewise I think the people talking about Groh and Wolf, and who advised what on any player are just making **** up. We have no idea whose input is being followed, and who said what about anyone.

 

[Real fan 02]

BELICHICK THOUGHT THAT
1) we had a reliable QB in Jones.
2) Thornton would be our starting outside receiver by now, with Parker as the backup. The extension was an insurance policy against the failure of Thornton to develop.
3) Juju was healthy and would be a top contributor in our offense led by top 15 QB Jones.
=================================
If Jones was a backup quality NFL QB, I think that we would be arguing about the need for a TOP WR, as we have done since we passed on Terrell and draft Seymour. Perhaps some coach will pay $25M a year for a top QB, but that is unlikely to happen unless the Kraft's sell the team.

The Giants 3rd stringer would probably make all our receivers look better.

Bourne was benched last year. Patricia and Belichick didn't want him to play, never mind get an extension. I suspect that any extension offer would have been a lowball one. Bourne was essentially asked to prove himself in 2023. He did. Given Bourne's 2022 stats, it was right for Bourne to bet on himself and hope for a better offer this coming off-season.

Well put! Mac was playing not to make a mistakes rather to make a play. Therefore... he's throwing INTS. So the ship has sailed, and where are where are. 2-9.. an expansion team roster. There few guys that are core peices on defense. I'm curious to see if Parker and juju suddenly remember how to play WR with zap the rest of the way.

 

[Ring 6]

parker & juju are two of the worst starting wrs in the nfl, thornton is a bust & douglas has potential.

This is not what you think it is. This is separation based upon TARGETS. The primary problem with our pass offense is 10 doesn’t throw to the right guy.
Of course Parker is low on “separation” because the only balls that are thrown to him and 5-7 yard slants.

 

[Ivan]

The free agent market for WR’s this coming year sucks. There is going to be a bidding war for tee Higgins, and the rest are either old or really mediocre.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Parker, Shuster and Boutte may not be very "good", but they would likely be serviceable #3's for one of the AFC playoff QB's and perhaps even others.

Some may go so far as to believe that of Thornton. I think that is a major leap; it seems he is simply a bust.

I sound like a broken record, but JuJu was the WR1 for the SB winning team last year.

 

[Ring 6]

Seeing how many times they make the wrong reads, run the wrong routes, and run just sloppy routes in general....yeah, they are what they show

The times that they were open and 10 either didn’t throw to them or threw poorly and exponentially higher than any of those issues.

 

[Jim Beankie]

This is not what you think it is. This is separation based upon TARGETS. The primary problem with our pass offense is 10 doesn’t throw to the right guy.
Of course Parker is low on “separation” because the only balls that are thrown to him and 5-7 yard slants.

I read an excellent article years ago stating that separation is partially a QB stat, and to your point, I agree with it. The problem with someone like Parker is that he's been in last place for 4 straight years in separation (well... he just bumped up to 3rd to last after the last game) on 2 different teams with more than 2 QBs. At that point, it's gotta be the player.

 

[lancerman]

I sound like a broken record, but JuJu was the WR1 for the SB winning team last year.

Kelce was the number 1 pass catcher. Juju was a glorified #2

 

[Ring 6]

Parker, Shuster and Boutte may not be very "good", but they would likely be serviceable #3's for one of the AFC playoff QB's and perhaps even others.

Some may go so far as to believe that of Thornton. I think that is a major leap; it seems he is simply a bust.

If you admit you aren’t capable of evaluating WRs hoe can you then evaluate WRs?

 

[Ring 6]

I read an excellent article years ago stating that separation is partially a QB stat, and to your point, I agree with it. The problem with someone like Parker is that he's been in last place for 4 straight years in separation (well... he just bumped up to 3rd to last after the last game) on 2 different teams with more than 2 QBs. At that point, it's gotta be the player.

Parker is absolutely going to rank low in that category because of the routes he runs and the targets he gets. You aren’t getting a lot of separation on a 6 yard slant against man.

 

[Ring 6]

Kelce was the number 1 pass catcher. Juju was a glorified #2

Explain “glorified” and explain how this negates the fact tag he was WR1 on a SB champ

 

[RIpats88]

The same question applies to the OL.

Good QBs identify whats coming and adjust the play call or maneuver in the pocket to execute. I have have real doubts if Jones can read NFL defenses.

Not everything is an either or proposition. Lowe can be horrible whether or not Jones is bad.

Same with our receivers. Jones being replaced with Zappe isn't going to make Thornton be an elite receiver or guys like lowe elite OL.

It's like half this board never watched a single NFL game except for the Brady Patriots sometimes.

 

[RIpats88]

Explain “glorified” and explain how this negates the fact tag he was WR1 on a SB champ

This is the dumbest argument I keep seeing..

No one rationally beleives Juju is the same as say AJ Brown. Because both were technically #1 "wide" receivers on their team.

because people understand Kelce was the #1 option on that team and Juju got open off of that. Kelce was the one taking double coverages and the best defensive coverage.

just like the "OmG Brady NeVeR had EliTe ReCeIVers" when trying to downplay the position when he arguably has the greatest mismatch of all time in Gronkowski

people trying to make this argument like Juju is some elite #1 receiver akin to DK Metcalf and AJ brown. Just because his title was wide receiver