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What's with the sudden panic over the offense?


going to come up with someone new instead of say kool-aid in every thread? Probably not
 
I don't panic, but i think it's fair to say they'll be looking for a proven WR, or TE/H-Back with with Hernandez gone.
 
Last year's top 5 Patriots receivers:

Welker - 118
Lloyd - 74
Gronk - 55
AH - 51
Woodhead - 40

The simple fact of the matter is that, if Gronk can't play week 1, the Patriots will start their season without their top 5 receivers from last season. Anyone who wants to pretend that they can easily find the missing 338 receptions among the current crop of receivers is welcome to do so. The fact of the matter is, though, that the career best seasons of Amendola/Jenkins/Jones combined get you to 179, which is less than what Gronk/AH/Lloyd had last year in a down season for the two TEs.

You really can't look at it like that. More like - if Brady threw to those guys 500 times, he's going to throw to 5 or 6 targets to make up those 500 attempts, right? So how will the new corps compare in terms of completion rate and YAC? That's the big question.

Also, one of the biggest reasons those guys got so many chances was because there was NOTHING after them. I love Branch but watching from the stands, it was obvious that he could never get open. They were so short in their receiver corps, those guys had to see 500 balls.

They've got a lot more potential depth this year, at least. Losing Welker and Hernandez certainly hurts, but a good QB with a good O line will make his throws, and I really don't think Woodhead or Lloyd were anything special on the other ends of the route - and I also expect Gronk to at leas tmatch last year's production.
 
If I know the Patriots, like I think I do. With all this talk about their downfall and all the crap about the WR/TE..one thing is pretty much for sure, they will be going to the Superbowl this season.

I agree. I just can't see them getting bounced early or even losing to the Texans or the Broncos. The Ravens are the only team that I fear, even though they lost many starters on both sides of the football. This team may have lost a lot in the passing game, but they are too talented on other parts of the team to be written off so fast.

They can still beat the Texans, even though it may be tougher without Hernandez. Hernandez destroyed that defense twice and he exposed the Texans' defenders in man coverage. But still, the Texans will get matchups exploited with Vereen's ability to go out wide, along with Gronkowski's big and athletic frame that the Patriots didn't even have last season and yet still put up 42 and 41 points without. It will be harder to find mismatches without Hernandez, but it doesn't mean it can't be done with other players.

Against the Broncos, the Patriots showed that they can pass and run against that defense, which will keep them on their heels. The Patriots put up 31 and a bunch of yards without Hernandez. Defending Manning and the passing attack, the Patriots improved their interior pass rush by adding Kelly to push the pocket. Also, the Patriots have a pair of big 6'1" CBs in Aqib Talib and Ras-I Dowling who can help blanket the big Bronco receivers in Thomas and Decker. Also, Arrington is best as a slot CB so he'll be getting work on Wes Welker, even though that proves to be a tough task. With those 3 and Devin McCourty roaming center field at FS, the coverage will be solidified and that will allow Belichick to dial up some exotic blitzes with the talented front 7 and apply even more pressure against Peyton Manning.

But, if the Patriots offense can show that they can attack all parts of the football field (short, intermediate, deep, inside the hashes, outside the hashes, whatever), then they won't have as much trouble with the Ravens as they had in the past. The Ravens would make life difficult for Brady by packing multiple defenders in the middle of the field to take away the underneath passing game. However, they dared the Patriots to go vertical by leaving one-on-one coverage on the outside and that's where the Patriots must beat the Ravens.

The RBs do need to step up though, Ridley had a great season in 2012 and is only getting better. I expect Vereen to have Woodhead's receiving production and a lot more rushing yards, as the primary change of pace back. Something special is also with the defense, with all of the continuity, the additions of Adrian Wilson/Tommy Kelly/Armond Armstead and the improvement of the 2nd year players (Hightower, T. Wilson, C. Jones, Dennard), it is making things very promising for the defense.

You also have to factor in the defense's ability to force turnovers and Leon Washington's addition to the return game, which will give Brady and the offense a shorter field to work with.

I can see the Patriots definitely make the Super Bowl again, because they match up well with the other good teams from the AFC and that the other parts of the football team (run game, defense) are talented and getting better and will take less off Brady's shoulders. But winning the super bowl, is a different story. 49ers and Seahawks will be tough matchups for NE if they make it to the Big Apple.
 
Tom Brady completions

2001 - 264 - Super Bowl - lowest total but also partial year.
2002 - 373 -
2003 - 317 - Super Bowl - 3rd lowest
2004 - 288 - Super Bowl - 2nd lowest
2005 - 334
2006 - 319
2007 - 398
2009 - 371
2010 - 324
2011 - 401
2012 - 401

Well if we're going the semi scientific method here then
the imperfect science says less is more and overall team balance is better.

Passing completions not proven as a major factor in winning Super Bowl.
 
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rule changes, Icy...predicate more offensive minded teams...that's one way to explain that

there's just too many variables involved though from year to year to draw any real, definitive conclusion...the Pats COULD throw less and run more and make the Super Bowl this season...and they could just as easily end up 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

I'm betting my entire pitcher of Kool Aid that McDaniels, with BB's approval,puts out an even more spectacular aerial show than 2012. It just feels like that to me, considering EVERYONE outside of Foxboro will be blabbing non stop about exactly what BB and the Pats need to do...and from the looks of it, the consensus is "he has to RUN MORE!! No more of these passing displays!!"....I don't know...I think it's fear of "what if they have success doing business as usual" that drives the majority of the media that has been predicting the decline and waiting for the decline of the Brady/Pats offense since the last second ticked off the clock in February 2008.
 
rule changes, Icy...predicate more offensive minded teams...that's one way to explain that

there's just too many variables involved though from year to year to draw any real, definitive conclusion...the Pats COULD throw less and run more and make the Super Bowl this season...and they could just as easily end up 8-8 and out of the playoffs.

I'm betting my entire pitcher of Kool Aid that McDaniels, with BB's approval,puts out an even more spectacular aerial show than 2012. It just feels like that to me, considering EVERYONE outside of Foxboro will be blabbing non stop about exactly what BB and the Pats need to do...and from the looks of it, the consensus is "he has to RUN MORE!! No more of these passing displays!!"....I don't know...I think it's fear of "what if they have success doing business as usual" that drives the majority of the media that has been predicting the decline and waiting for the decline of the Brady/Pats offense since the last second ticked off the clock in February 2008.

I don't see any conceivable way Tom Brady can perform at peak production given his age. I am sure it's possible but I don't think it's logical to expect it from a planning point of view. The man has only so many fastballs left in that arm and body.

I think they will design the offense around less passing but with a higher receiving yardage per catch for the WR's and I'm expecting more of the short range passes to be caught by the RB core with the team trying to exploit some YAC in that category.

I'm expecting great receiving production from Shane Vereen this year. That kid is a WR in a RB body and everything I saw from him at the games I went to excited me. The WR's we have this year will open up more production from the RB's IMO. Last years crop of receivers did little to keep teams from stacking the box.
 
You really can't look at it like that. More like - if Brady threw to those guys 500 times, he's going to throw to 5 or 6 targets to make up those 500 attempts, right? So how will the new corps compare in terms of completion rate and YAC? That's the big question.

Also, one of the biggest reasons those guys got so many chances was because there was NOTHING after them. I love Branch but watching from the stands, it was obvious that he could never get open. They were so short in their receiver corps, those guys had to see 500 balls.

They've got a lot more potential depth this year, at least. Losing Welker and Hernandez certainly hurts, but a good QB with a good O line will make his throws, and I really don't think Woodhead or Lloyd were anything special on the other ends of the route - and I also expect Gronk to at leas tmatch last year's production.

I'm not sure why people who want to defend the team keep telling me how I can look at things when the data runs against them. Of course I can look at it like that. It's perfectly valid data to look at. Furthermore, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Lloyd had a higher YPC than either Jenkins or Jones last season. And the notion that they have "a lot more potential depth" is absurd.
 
Tom Brady completions

2001 - 264 - Super Bowl - lowest total but also partial year.
2002 - 373 -
2003 - 317 - Super Bowl - 3rd lowest
2004 - 288 - Super Bowl - 2nd lowest
2005 - 334
2006 - 319
2007 - 398
2009 - 371
2010 - 324
2011 - 401
2012 - 401

Well if we're going the semi scientific method here then
the imperfect science says less is more and overall team balance is better.

Passing completions not proven as a major factor in winning Super Bowl.

If the only issue differentiating all those years was completions, or even just the offense in general, you'd have a point. Since that's nowhere near the only difference, though, your argument fails.
 
If the only issue differentiating all those years was completions, or even just the offense in general, you'd have a point. Since that's nowhere near the only difference, though, your argument fails.

Deus you're the one earlier who stated:

Last year's top 5 Patriots receivers:

Welker - 118
Lloyd - 74
Gronk - 55
AH - 51
Woodhead - 40

The simple fact of the matter is that, if Gronk can't play week 1, the Patriots will start their season without their top 5 receivers from last season. Anyone who wants to pretend that they can easily find the missing 338 receptions among the current crop of receivers is welcome to do so. The fact of the matter is, though, that the career best seasons of Amendola/Jenkins/Jones combined get you to 179, which is less than what Gronk/AH/Lloyd had last year in a down season for the two TEs.

I simply pointed out that your argument was not logical in terms of winning a Super Bowl because all those catches have not equated to winning one. There are too many other factors of course. So why are you arguing we need to make up for those 338 receptions then?

You have just disproved your own point of needing 338.
I'm not sure why people who want to defend the team keep telling me how I can look at things when the data runs against them.
The data runs against your 338 point.
 
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I don't see any conceivable way Tom Brady can perform at peak production given his age. I am sure it's possible but I don't think it's logical to expect it from a planning point of view. The man has only so many fastballs left in that arm and body.

I think they will design the offense around less passing but with a higher receiving yardage per catch for the WR's and I'm expecting more of the short range passes to be caught by the RB core with the team trying to exploit some YAC in that category.

I'm expecting great receiving production from Shane Vereen this year. That kid is a WR in a RB body and everything I saw from him at the games I went to excited me. The WR's we have this year will open up more production from the RB's IMO. Last years crop of receivers did little to keep teams from stacking the box.

I saw that first hand in last year's playoff loss...a lot of bad plays by a lot of players and yes, Brady made some real bad plays. I think much along the lines you do....more vertical attempts in the 10 -20 yard range and definitely more Shane Faulk...er...Vereen. It's HIS time.
 
Deus you're the one earlier who stated:



I simply pointed out that your argument was not logical in terms of winning a Super Bowl because all those catches have not equated to winning one. There are too many other factors of course. So why are you arguing we need to make up for those 338 receptions then?

Because the discussion was about problems with the offense, not reasons for failing to win Super Bowls in previous seasons.

You have just disproved your own point of needing 338.

The data runs against your 338 point.

And this is what is meant by naked assertions. Your argument here is patently untrue.
 
Because the discussion was about problems with the offense, not reasons for failing to win Super Bowls in previous seasons.
Unlike you I don't see a potential problem with the offense but you with the who will make up the 338 obviously ... you do.

And this is what is meant by naked assertions. Your argument here is patently untrue.

Oh it's true ... and I'm not worried about the 338 to WR's at all.

You can remain worried but team stats do not show that it will lead to a ring.

Anyone who is taking the panic route has just driven off the road.
 
How dare we think the O will be fine....we will be lucky to win 2 games
 
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I'm not worried. I see opportunities for players to step up and demonstrate their potential.
 
I certainly understand the concern, especially since we'll have lost all 5 of Brady's top targets should Gronk start on PUP. That changeover alone will merit consideration of concern for many.

I am not worried about the change of WR1 or WR2, and the production of the RB passes should be able to be replicated to some degree too. Hell, we actually should be able to improve upon the WR3 and WR4 positions this year who only received 21 and 16 catches respectively.

My main concern would be the ability to utilize our offense as effectively without changing too many aspects, and still being able to run hurry up on 25% of the snaps. That normally meant keeping versatile personnel on the field (the loss of #81 concerns me), while taking advantage of mismatches against the opposing defense.

Belichick will have to decide how/what he feels most comfortable with in the upcoming months, and I'd have to imagine that we'll be beating dead horses with talks of trade for another WR, replacement for the "joker/move" TE, or just switching up the style and scheme altogether more.
 
Like others, I see a tremendous opportunity for Shane Vereen, not just because he'll get Woodhead's snaps, but because he can be the mismatch guy on the offense rather than Hernandez - the guy that defensive coordinators will have to account for.

I'm also quite bullish on George Winn in that I can see him taking on 3rd down back role. Excellent blocker that can catch but I'm also impressed with how decisively he hits a hole and could see him being effective on draw plays. And if the absence of Hernandez means increased use of a FB, then Winn has effectively performed that role too (also Tebow, Tim).

Also, it's been discussed in the draft forum, but people need to be aware of Oregon's Colt Lyerla during the upcoming college season - he might actually be an upgrade on Hernandez should we draft him.
 


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