Where Is The Pats Deep Threat At????

[Ring 6]

As I posted elsewhere, the Pats were inside the Ravens' 35 (which, on a normal day, is well within Gostkowski's FG range) a total of EIGHT times, and FOUR times they were in the red zone.

And all they managed to score was 13 points. Twice they punted inside the Ravens' 35.

The Pats scored TDs on 67.5% of their red zone possessions this year. That comes to an average of 4.7 points per red zone possession, *not counting field goals*. So if the Pats were playing a "normal" game, on those four red zone possessions, they should have put up 19 points (4.7 * 4) on TDs, and add another FG so they should have had between 21-24 points on those red zone trips alone.

That still leaves four other trips where they were between the 21-35 yard line. Figure they try four FGs and Ghost makes 2-3 of them. That's another 6-9 points.

Bottom line, if the Patriots play a "normal" game under normal conditions, they score between 27-33 points. They just had an awful, awful, awful day converting points.

And I think missing Gronk was a HUGE part of that, frankly.

And inside the 25 6 times.
It may not be the exciting deep answer everyone is looking for but the reality is that the offense was in position to make the plays it always does, they were there to be made, and they weren't. It happens.

As a side note, personally I think the root of the problem was we moved in such small chunks that there were way too many cases of where we had to make plays and ultimately we fell short. Usually this offense gets many more big chunks than it did Sunday.

 

[coolguy]

Same contract? Welker. he knows brady like the back of his hand..doesn't have to re learn the O and catches everything weather he's a deep threat or not

(now comes in the people saying he always has big drops )

But welker will be cheaper than jennings and wallace IMO this offseason

Learn the offense? I thought it was the clear the patriots are slowly transitioning back to run first 3 wide receiver set.


Jennings and wallace would be great in the play action passing game.

 

[Ring 6]

Learn the offense? I thought it was the clear the patriots are slowly transitioning back to run first 3 wide receiver set.


Jennings and wallace would be great in the play action passing game.

Thats why they signed 2 TEs for 8 years?

 

[coolguy]

Thats why they signed 2 TEs for 8 years?

Gronk and hernandez are superior versions of Benjamin watson, graham and Fauria.

 

[supafly]

Gronk and hernandez are superior versions of Benjamin watson, graham and Fauria.

Not at that cost they aren't.

Not with the talent that they have, and the personnel problems they impose on defenses. What NE did was set up a blueprint around the NFL for other teams to try and match.

Let's remember that no one had more TD's in the NFL than Gronk over the last 2 1/2 seasons before he went out. This offense is set to exploit the matchup problems that he causes in both the run/pass game.

I think this current and future offense are tailored around what those 2 TE's do in many aspects. They are far different from Fauria, Graham, and even Watson (in my opinion).

 

[supafly]

Learn the offense? I thought it was the clear the patriots are slowly transitioning back to run first 3 wide receiver set.

Is there some kind of proof of this that I am simply not seeing?

"Run first" with Tom Brady? To me, "run first" means...well, run first.

I have not seen anything like that to this point. I see more of a balanced attack, which is needed, but no stats at all that point to a run first attack.

3 WR?? On the majority of the plays? Are you counting Hernandez as a WR here?

I saw a lot of 2/2/1 sets this season, and I think that's what we see moving forward.

 

[LiveShot]

Presently playing in Arizona for a team going nowhere. Bet he'd like a ring.

 

[coolguy]

Is there some kind of proof of this that I am simply not seeing?

"Run first" with Tom Brady? To me, "run first" means...well, run first.

I have not seen anything like that to this point. I see more of a balanced attack, which is needed, but no stats at all that point to a run first attack.

3 WR?? On the majority of the plays? Are you counting Hernandez as a WR here?

I saw a lot of 2/2/1 sets this season, and I think that's what we see moving forward.

Are you counting Hernandez as a WR here? yes

 

[PATRlOT]

Presently playing in Arizona for a team going nowhere. Bet he'd like a ring.

I'd like to hope he'd take a small paycut if the Patriots traded for Fitzgerald. If any of the top WRs would, I think it would be Fitz.

 

[coolguy]

Is there some kind of proof of this that I am simply not seeing?

"Run first" with Tom Brady? To me, "run first" means...well, run first.

I have not seen anything like that to this point. I see more of a balanced attack, which is needed, but no stats at all that point to a run first attack.

3 WR?? On the majority of the plays? Are you counting Hernandez as a WR here?

I saw a lot of 2/2/1 sets this season, and I think that's what we see moving forward.

Patriots running the ball 25+ times and throwing it less is what i was talking about.

 

[ivanvamp]

Presently playing in Arizona for a team going nowhere. Bet he'd like a ring.

Fitzgerald would be the PERFECT fit here in NE. Big, strong, fast, unbelievable hands, good character guy. Perfect.

Except that he's under contract through 2018 for $17 million a year. So in order for the Pats to get him,

(a) They'd have to give up a TON to trade for him, and

(b) they'd have to cut a bunch of guys to fit him under the cap.

UNLESS they let Welker go. And even then, we're still talking about an increase in salary by about $8 million.

But what about a sign-and-trade? Welker + a 2nd round pick in 2013 and a 2nd in 2014 for Fitzgerald?

The Pats then have Fitzgerald and Lloyd on the outside, use Edelman in the slot, Gronk/Hernandez/Ballard from the TE position, and Vereen/Woodhead/Demps out of the backfield.

I'd rather have Fitzgerald, Lloyd, and Edelman than Welker, Lloyd, and Branch. By, like a mile.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Learn the offense? I thought it was the clear the patriots are slowly transitioning back to run first 3 wide receiver set.

So you don't have to learn the O then and know TBs tendency? not every WR can come in here and get it....aka ocho stinko

 

[Deus Irae]

Where Is The Pats Deep Threat At????

He's probably in college, because they've apparently decided not to use Lllllllllloyd much in the middle-deep area.

 

[coolguy]

So you don't have to learn the O then and know TBs tendency? not every WR can come in here and get it....aka ocho stinko

Chad johnson was too old to be utilize the way the patriots wanted him to be used.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Chad johnson was too old to be utilize the way the patriots wanted him to be used.

age had nothing to do with it

 

[supafly]

Patriots running the ball 25+ times and throwing it less is what i was talking about.

I'm not seeing it personally.

Brady had more attempts this season (2012) than in any other year, and the numbers have grown substantially from the offense's record pace set in the 2007 season.

2012---637

2011---611

2010---492

2009---565

2007---578

If anything, the Moss years proved to be the most pass-happy years that we've seen, and those years fail in comparison to his attempts now. That is also taking into acct the use of hurry up, which probably averages at about 10 more plays per game on average usage.

I think the average ratio has been approximately 59/41 pass to run in Brady's years, although this is a number that I remember from a discussion either last year, or the year before.

The ratio this season was 56/44 pass once again, so even though it looks like we're rushing more significantly some of the numbers are skewed due to the fact that there are more actual plays per season due to the hurry up.

Either way, the team showed more balance which was definitely needed. The point is that I'm not necessarily sure that we can definitely take away the premise that they are now moving to a 3 WR, run-first attack though.

New England Patriots 2012 Statistics - Team and Player Stats - ESPN

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

^^ How many min did the O have the ball this year compared to those other years? I am going to say much more due to the great TO ratio

 

[supafly]

So you don't have to learn the O then and know TBs tendency? not every WR can come in here and get it....aka ocho stinko

I will agree that age has less to do with it than many here realize, although we can also assume that a young, fast WR would certainly be speedier than some of the other deep older threats we've had in the past obviously too. In the case of C.Johnson it did not seem to be his age though.

We all saw the video of the workouts with Mike Wallace and Ochocino, and Chad looked damn good in most of the drills, some much better than Wallace.

The failure of many of these WR's certainly has a lot to do with the fact that they simply cannot pick up the read/react timing, route tree system, the audibles, where to line up, the playcalls themselves, and all of the smaller nuances that are practiced again and again and again to perfection in many instances.

Then there's also the fact that they tend to take plays off, they don't block effectively enough on running plays because they aren't used to it on this level, and overall chemistry and reliability failures with Brady and the rest of the offense.

We can all want guys like G.Jennings or M.Wallace, but the truth is that it may work and it may not work.

This is also why I really wanted R.Wayne over Llyod this past year, because I think that overall smarts and reliability are better used in this system than actual breakaway speed is. Finding the right combination of both is not easy to do, but in my opinion Wayne could have still stretched the field for us.

The only answers would either be to part with the house for someone like Fitzgerald etc, or to take another shot in the draft or lower level FA.

Deus Irae recently brought up the question of Titus Young, who has been a malcontent in DET but does have speed and talent. Maybe that kind of exploration (not necessarily him, but someone in that frame) may be the best way to go, I really don't know at this point.

 

[supafly]

^^ How many min did the O have the ball this year compared to those other years? I am going to say much more due to the great TO ratio

Pass to run ratio and number of overall plays are really the best ways to look at it due to the simplicity. It's easy to look at the overall number of offensive plays and say "how many were runs vs how many were passes."

Like I said, I would certainly take into acct the fact that the hurry up averages more plays on offense per game. IIRC, that number was approx. 10 or so earlier in the year. That fact is indeed brought up and compared to the 2007 record setting attack. Like I said, most seasons are usually about 60/40 pass, but there has certainly been a trend to run the ball with better balance and more efficiency, so I agree with that.

As far as TOP this year, the team definitely improved by a couple of minutes if I recall correctly, as compared to last year, which certainly goes hand in hand with the more balanced attack.

I'm certainly not arguing against our attack being more balanced, far from it. It's what they needed and it worked out great. All I am saying is that it's hard to have conclusive evidence that we are "moving to a 3 WR, run-first" attack, which was what the poster said.

 

[fumbrunner]

ugh, this again.

First of all, the offense is predicated on short to medium routes, with lots of rubs and slants, with the occasional post routes by our TEs. It is the nature of the offense and it isn't going to change to a more vertical style.

Second, Brady does not have a good deep ball. Never has. It's just not his strength. And pleas dont point to 2007, because Moss comes around once in a lifetime. How many catches did he make in double and triple coverage? Overthrown, underthrown balls? Tons.

Wether it was bethel johnson, or stallworth, we have had burners on this team and they were marginal contributors.

What the Pats need is a physical, go get em receiver that could make plays in the medium range routes. A Boldin type, for example. Or a dez bryant-type with his head screwed on right. Now that is something that has been missing in the past decade.