The Sky is Not Falling

[manxman2601]

Count me among those who wonder why you'd want to have a thread like this after a good win--particularly one that required so much effort/research on your part. At what point during the game yesterday did your mind go toward insufficiently (in your mind) supportive fans?

There are lots and lots of posters here, and obviously calling the Pats "garbage" is absurd. So what? Let it go.

On the merits of the win, I'll say this. It was very satifying. The Pats have gives us an enormous amount of pleasure over the years, and every season--every game--should be enjoyed.

Having said that, the standards here are high. And they should be. I will extremely disappointed if the Pats don't win a Super Bowl this year. Whether it will make the season a "failure" is maybe a pointless exercise in the semantics of the thing. But the Pats have been crowned by too many people the last couple of Decembers. Remember 45-3?

There's one of these threads after every win. For some, criticising other fans seem to be the most satisfying response to celebrating a win. Personally, I'd rather talk about the team but hey ho!

 

[Dutchmaster617]

This here is the issue. Setting unreasonable expectations. For many everyone of the last 8 seasons are failures, which is ridiculous.

Its unreasonable to finish the usual 8-10 game win streak with say, idk, maybe just 3 playoff wins?

Beating the Giants team most people beat is unreasonable? Why even pay high ticket prices then if we can't expect the team to play how it can.

 

[The Gr8est]

Prefer here doesn't imply like.

For example I prefer your posts to having my nuts crushed with rocks by shrieking women. It's not that I like your posts, it just beats the alternative in this scenario.

Man I HATE it when that happens.

 

[shmessy]

Beating the Giants team most people beat is unreasonable?

Can we get a clearer translation of that one please?

 

[DarrylS]

To really how great this run is, many fans should have lived through the 90's when this franchise was the laughing stock of the league.. we sucked in all areas of the game.

Was just listening to Ordway ranting and raving about how we as fans and lot of the mediots were whining and bytching when the team was 3-3, we should know better and the adage of the season really begins at Thanksgiving is true..

Shame on all of us, we should know better.. this team with BB, his lieutenants, #12 and his supporting cast and Big Vince, Mayo and their posse are not going to suck the whole season.. we have consistently played better and last night we held a very good offense in check.

Weren't we starting 5 rookies on defense at one time this season, and our D backfield totalled less than 5 years experience total...

Be patient all, it is a journey not one game.. we will get to the promised land again, and then the season really begins.. there will be baptisms in the font at Gillette next Sunday Night around 8"30 PM... you have to believe.

 

[lamafist]

Prefer here doesn't imply like.

For example I prefer your posts to having my nuts crushed with rocks by shrieking women. It's not that I like your posts, it just beats the alternative in this scenario.

Lars Von Trier fan, eh?

 

[fnordcircle]

Lars Von Trier fan, eh?

Sorry, is that a rap guy? I don't like rap. Nothing but clicks and whistles.

 

[lamafist]

I just wish that the less sanguine among us could tone down the disproportionate sense of outrage and scorn a bit.

One can be pessimistic about the team's prospects without declaring things "inexcusable" or "unacceptable." You can be disappointed by the team's performance without declaring it "pathetic" and casting aspersions on the team's heart and character (which are never here nor there anyway.)

It's one thing to have criticisms and doubts, but the amount of anger and indignation heaped on a team that's given us an unprecedented decade of consistent excellence is more than a little ridiculous.

For example, since Rodney Harrison, the team has not gotten much return on investment at the safety position, and this has been a big part of the problem for the Pats' defenses in recent years. Merriweather and Chung did not develop as we'd hoped, and our free agent acquisitions have failed to pan out.

That is a fair criticism of the team. It doesn't mean that BB or the front office is incompetent. Player acquisition is always more hit than miss, and on the whole they do a better job of it than any other team. It also doesn't make Merriweather or Chung punks who don't care about football or even just "pathetic" football players -- they may just be better suited for another scheme, and even if not, they're still better than 99.99% of the people who'd want their jobs.

I understand wanting to vent when the Pats lose, it's possible to be angry with being angry at someone. Learning that distinction is generally considered part of developing from adolescence to adulthood, and not too much to expect from each other, isn't it?

 

[lamafist]

Sorry, is that a rap guy? I don't like rap. Nothing but clicks and whistles.

Nope. He's waaaaay to misogynistic for hip hop.

 

[mayoclinic]

I just wish that the less sanguine among us could tone down the disproportionate sense of outrage and scorn a bit.

One can be pessimistic about the team's prospects without declaring things "inexcusable" or "unacceptable." You can be disappointed by the team's performance without declaring it "pathetic" and casting aspersions on the team's heart and character (which are never here nor there anyway.)

It's one thing to have criticisms and doubts, but the amount of anger and indignation heaped on a team that's given us an unprecedented decade of consistent excellence is more than a little ridiculous.

For example, since Rodney Harrison, the team has not gotten much return on investment at the safety position, and this has been a big part of the problem for the Pats' defenses in recent years. Merriweather and Chung did not develop as we'd hoped, and our free agent acquisitions have failed to pan out.

That is a fair criticism of the team. It doesn't mean that BB or the front office is incompetent. Player acquisition is always more hit than miss, and on the whole they do a better job of it than any other team. It also doesn't make Merriweather or Chung punks who don't care about football or even just "pathetic" football players -- they may just be better suited for another scheme, and even if not, they're still better than 99.99% of the people who'd want their jobs.

I understand wanting to vent when the Pats lose, it's possible to be angry with being angry at someone. Learning that distinction is generally considered part of developing from adolescence to adulthood, and not too much to expect from each other, isn't it?

Nicely said.

 

[Deus Irae]

...For example, since Rodney Harrison, the team has not gotten much return on investment at the safety position, and this has been a big part of the problem for the Pats' defenses in recent years. Merriweather and Chung did not develop as we'd hoped, and our free agent acquisitions have failed to pan out.

That is a fair criticism of the team. It doesn't mean that BB or the front office is incompetent...

That's precisely what it means. It's definitional. The Patriots had (I make no judgement on the current set, since it looks promising and deserves time to prove itself) been incompetent when it came to fixing the safety position, post-Rodney.

Also, while I agree that both extremes go too far, I expect it on a message board.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I just wish that the less sanguine among us could tone down the disproportionate sense of outrage and scorn a bit.

I'll do just that once I put the sentence thru the Google translator

 

[mosi]

These are magic time for Patriots fans. We have been serious superbowl contenders for the last 12 years. Frankly, that is amazing. In the 70's I thought it was great if they had a winning season. In the 80's, getting 11 wins was almost unbelievable. The 90's had there moments and we started to get a glimpse of being more than a flash in the pan. The Belichick-Brady era has been more than most Pats fans could have ever hoped. Honest, enjoy the day because the time will come when we will return to tough times. It may not happen in this decade, but it will happen.

So I will say it again. Enjoy these times. Relish every game and every win.

 

[lamafist]

That's precisely what it means. It's definitional. The Patriots had (I make no judgement on the current set, since it looks promising and deserves time to prove itself) been incompetent when it came to fixing the safety position, post-Rodney.

Also, while I agree that both extremes go too far, I expect it on a message board.

The Patriots have been unsuccessful at fixing the safety position, which is not the same thing as being incompetent at it. Incompetence connotes a more generalized lack of qualification or capability.

It's the same difference as between being unable vs. incapable. You can be capable of something in general, yet unable to do it in one instance.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots have been unsuccessful at fixing the safety position, which is not the same thing as being incompetent at it. Incompetence connotes a more generalized lack of qualification or capability.

It's the same difference as between being unable vs. incapable. You can be capable of something in general, yet unable to do it in one instance.

Again, it's definitional:

in·com·pe·tent
[in-kom-pi-tuh nt]
adjective
1.
not competent; lacking qualification or ability; incapable: an incompetent candidate.

Incompetent | Define Incompetent at Dictionary.com

While the position may/may not be fixed now, the team has clearly been incompetent when it comes to fixing the position post-Harrison, and it wasn't just one instance.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

This here is the issue. Setting unreasonable expectations. For many everyone of the last 8 seasons are failures, which is ridiculous.

How many times have you seen some dum dum say "anything less than a super bowl victory is unacceptable" or some such crap?

Hey, I've "accepted" every season in this run, including the 5 SB appearances, 3 victories, and annual playoff appearances (or 11-win seasons that shoulda been playoff appearances.)

Maybe it helps that I've seen this same franchise sucking hind tit for years on end. Who doesn't remember those seasons of "...and if Miami loses and ___ wins and ____ doesn't score 24 or more we're in..." or for that matter, "Eh well. 0-4. At least the Sox are still alive..."

It never drove me to following hockey but it has come close.

THINK, people. There are 32 teams. It's pretty nice to be in the top 10 year after year after year... and usually one of the top 2-4 teams. As in, the majority of the time. Cripes.

I honestly don't want to hear another peep about what's "unacceptable." The only fanboys using that terminology are bandwagon jumpers.

The rest of us have been forced to "accept" what's normal for an NFL fan... at least those with some semblance of franchise loyalty.

Sooner or later, it has to come, and that's what some of the more sanguine posters are afraid of year after year... if not quite so henny-penny or so angry as the newbies. There will come a year when we again are a bad football team. We don't know when... we perceive it as tied inextricably with Brady's prowess, and that perception has a lot to be said for it. He's possibly the best QB of all time. Kind of hard not to have a drop-off at the position when he declines, and it just happens to be the most important position in football.

Brady wants to play until he's 70, which we all appreciate (at least right now.) One day he will turn 40. One day he will turn 45 (in 10 years, to be precise.) One day he will be watching games in a Lazy Boy and Giselle will be fat. It is the way of the world.

But that day is not today And I don't think even that day destroys the franchise. It just makes it much less likely we'll continue to be the perennial team to beat. (And don't even talk to me about the day BB goes.)

So in this perpetual state of fear that today's Tom is merely among the best in the league, not performing at the best-season-of-all-time level, we always look for the signs that it's "the beginning of the end."

Well $%&* that. 3-3 can turn into 7-7 or 13-3. Getting too high or too low before the playoff seedings are final is just plain silly. I thought so then, I think so now (although back then, I thought we'd get in at 10-6 or so.)

Anybody here planning to jump ship after Brady, or after the Pats start losing, if that happens?

If so you might as well be honest with yourself and skip out early. Otherwise stop with the "unacceptable" crap.

If you're a fan you can feel strongly that X, Y, and Z has to happen to right the ship, if in fact your ship needs righting, and if you're dumb enough to think you really know better than the guys at Patriots Place.

But you don't get to say "unacceptable." You get to say "I'm disappointed" or "I'm crushed" or "I'm so p.o.d at BB for that play" or whatever. You don't get to say "unacceptable."

Because truth is, if you're a fan, you accept the best seasons with the worst.

 

[lamafist]

Again, it's definitional:



Incompetent | Define Incompetent at Dictionary.com

While the position may/may not be fixed now, the team has clearly been incompetent when it comes to fixing the position post-Harrison, and it wasn't just one instance.

That's a terribly blunt, imprecise definition, unsurprising considering it's from Dictionary.com. Better dictionaries will give you a more nuanced definition.

Take Merriam-Webster's definition:

Definition of INCOMPETENT
1
: not legally qualified
2
: inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose
3
a : lacking the qualities needed for effective action

b : unable to function properly <incompetent heart valves>
— incompetent noun
— in·com·pe·tent·ly adverb

and The Cambridge Dictionary of American English's:

incompetent
/ɪnˈkɑm·pə·t̬ənt/ adj

Definition
lacking the skills or knowledge to do a job or perform an action correctly or to a satisfactory standard

Clearly, "incompetent" carries a connotation of generalized or intrinsic lack of capacity, and is not correctly used to describe a specific act of failure.

 

[BananaRepublican]

my intention was not to single out you, or to create a divide

fail .....

 

[PatsFanInVa]

fail .....

Every time I see your name I think of the Boomtown Rats song, "Banana Republic"

Boomtown Rats - Banana Republic 1980 - YouTube

And no nothing against anybody in saying that... I just saw your name again and have that song stuck in my head again

 

[RhodyPatriot]

.......
We may lose to SF next week. We may not win the SB this year. We may flame out in our first playoff game. But whatever happens, this team and this organization deserves more respect than it got from us earlier this year, IMHO. It's given better to us than we gave to it. And I'm not talking about constructive criticism, which is always appropriate.

We're the best *****ing team in the NFL, and the best organization in the NFL over the past 12 years. The team comes out and gives its all every week, and every week other teams prepare for us as though it is their Super Bowl. As Brady says, it's not easy to win a game, and any win is a win. But this year we have heard posters argue that this team is "garbage", "lethargic", "pathetic", "mediocre", worthy of being booed. So egregious that it makes even the bottom-feeding teams of the Sullivan days pale in comparison. Not to mention the usual posts that BB has lost his mojo and needs Viagra.
Imagine if we lived in Kansas City.

Oh stop!!
This team gets more respect than any other I can think of and they deserved and earned every bit of criticism they got earlier in the year.