Is Bill Belichick "arrogant"? If so why?

[IllegalContact]

again......back to the OP

not sure if it is because of arrogance, but it appears that he does not work as hard as he once did. relatively speaking, this team just seems unprepared at times

 

[IllegalContact]

Lloyd is hardly ever open. That's not his game. In fact he's more likely to muff a catch or go to ground inexplicably when he's open. His game is beating coverage on contested balls. It's taken Brady some time to even begin to trust that. But he's being coached to and conditioned to by the receiver.

I can buy that......but given the time and the score, it does not sound like good judgement when in the same line of view you have a target who literally has noone around him for 20 yards

this team used to be much more adept at taking whatever the opponent gives them. with the time on the clock and only needing an FG, along with how the previous few drives had gone, would it not be a no-brainer to take the percentage play?

AJ insists they don't call 'throw it deep', but if you look at the film, that is exactly what was on the table for brady......just going through the motions, you could see nothing else was going to be considered.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

again......back to the OP

not sure if it is because of arrogance, but it appears that he does not work as hard as he once did. relatively speaking, this team just seems unprepared at times

I don't think they are ever unprepared so much as the game plan is situationally ill prepared based on the situations they are dealing with personnel wise and the fact that opposing DC's aren't idiots and they are all gunning for us. I think some are scouting us better than we are self scouting ourselves at least early on this season. Also might have been a neat idea to have a QB on the roster last week who could have replicated Wilson better in practice. We are somewhat limited in the looks our scout team is capable of giving. We can replicate a Manning the elder. Not so much the seat of the pants (or as Bedard termed him pop gun) throw on the fly scrambler. Couldn't contain that one in game action and really struggled to get after him too.

 

[JJDChE]

Refusing to kow tow to conventional wisdom is a quick way to be labeled as arrogant, no matter how incorrect the conventional wisdom is. Belichick is not one to follow conventional wisdom which is why he gets branded arrogant by some.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't think they are ever unprepared so much as the game plan is situationally ill prepared based on the situations they are dealing with personnel wise and the fact that opposing DC's aren't idiots and they are all gunning for us. I think some are scouting us better than we are self scouting ourselves at least early on this season. Also might have been a neat idea to have a QB on the roster last week who could have replicated Wilson better in practice. We are somewhat limited in the looks our scout team is capable of giving. We can replicate a Manning the elder. Not so much the seat of the pants (or as Bedard termed him pop gun) throw on the fly scrambler. Couldn't contain that one in game action and really struggled to get after him too.

there are specific instances that tell me otherwise. using a TO late for 12 men on the field, poor clock management.

I don't believe the game was lost on the back of 2 seattle TD's scored late.....manning did that, too.....I think the mental managerial mistakes during the course of the game piled up to provide the seahawks with the opportunity they should not have had. it should have been 26-10,27-10, or 30-10 at the time the seahawks scored their 2 TD's....and you don't need a scenario that has everyhting go right to assume that. any time this team enters the red zone and does not get any point is a HUGE failure in my opinion. having it happen multiple times in one game is on the staff more than the players (you know the first time blame you the second time blame me thing)

I understnad that it is still 6 games into the season and I would bet money on the pats being in the playoffs, but something about this team seems different this year......while the defense seems its usual confused self, the offense seems, for lack of a better term, lazy....maybe uninspired.... which is why they are 0-3 in the close games.....the other team has simple 'out-wanted' the pats (except for the cardinals game, but)

at first I though the lack of a training camp regimen for most of them, but then I see welker who sat around the whole time and is really the most important piece to this puzzle.......

 

[vyrago]

OK...Belichick is arrogant...check...Brady is falling off the cliff at 35...check...Belichick is reverting to his Cleveland days...check...the Patriots have been a soft team since 2006...check....30% of the board tested for severe ADHD comes out 100% afflicted...check..

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few hot button "truths of the week"....this board is like trying to skate on oiled ice sometimes....

Yeah, you forgot "Kraft is cheap." That's one of the more popular whines.

 

[IllegalContact]

Refusing to kow tow to conventional wisdom is a quick way to be labeled as arrogant, no matter how incorrect the conventional wisdom is. Belichick is not one to follow conventional wisdom which is why he gets branded arrogant by some.

which makes him look like a genius when he wins........and provides much more fodder for questioning when it doesn't

 

[MoLewisrocks]

there are specific instances that tell me otherwise. using a TO late for 12 men on the field, poor clock management.

That was a failure in execution on the part of the players and staff. Not poor clock management as the alternative was a penalty. Forced to take the time out, the mistake was finding themselves in that position.

I don't believe the game was lost on the back of 2 seattle TD's scored late.....manning did that, too.....I think the mental managerial mistakes during the course of the game piled up to provide the seahawks with the opportunity they should not have had. it should have been 26-10,27-10, or 30-10 at the time the seahawks scored their 2 TD's....and you don't need a scenario that has everyhting go right to assume that. any time this team enters the red zone and does not get any point is a HUGE failure in my opinion. having it happen multiple times in one game is on the staff more than the players (you know the first time blame you the second time blame me thing)

I agree to a point, because had they simply put points on the board via one of two FG opportunities blown the 2 TD's don't amount to more than garbage time heroics.

I understnad that it is still 6 games into the season and I would bet money on the pats being in the playoffs, but something about this team seems different this year......while the defense seems its usual confused self, the offense seems, for lack of a better term, lazy....maybe uninspired.... which is why they are 0-3 in the close games.....the other team has simple 'out-wanted' the pats (except for the cardinals game, but)

at first I though the lack of a training camp regimen for most of them, but then I see welker who sat around the whole time and is really the most important piece to this puzzle.......

Welker didn't sit around in camp. Mediots keep harping on missed time. It was 24 hours to attend a funeral. Holding him out of much of the pre season had more to do with testing theories. Same deal with Branch. Josh was tweeking the offense via reinventing it. Then when the **** hit the fan it was a scramble to recover. They are lucky Welker is a hell of a scrambler. Been fighting his naysayers his entire life. But the whole offense is playing tight because things haven't turned out as planned out of the gate. Gronk isn't nearly himself due to injury or circumstance or whatever. Hernandez went down early and he was the centerpiece of Josh's reconfigured offense. Along with Edelman...who also went down somehow... And the OL remains a work in progress, in part needlessly although the level at which Mankins has returned isn't something they likely planned on (but should have). And that has likely exacerbated the transition to Solder, who seemed to be teetering on the brink of a sophomore slump out of the gate. They established they can run against teams who let them but still can't commit to being able to run the ball when they want to. Although they will still attempt to run the ball when they need to and paint themselves into a corner when they then fail.

They had a good thing going. All they lacked was a little better talent at RB, a viable outside the #'s WR threat, viable TE depth and a talent infusion in the front 7. They got all that and have somehow managed to overthink it. The players aren't executing consistently in part because their coaches have unnerved them. Particularly on offense.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yeah, you forgot "Kraft is cheap." That's one of the more popular whines.

That's the killer of all whines. Like Kraft has anything much to say about how or how much the support staff in football ops is compensated. That's on Bill. And he is cheap in a way, but it's rooted in his belief that you have to prove you're worth it and earn your way up the ladder. Charlie and RAC weren't being underpaid in relation to the vast majority of coordinators until Snyder went on his binge hiring his resurrected legendary HC a team of coordinating minions who were former HC's being overcompensated to essentially serve as stand alone entities and a support staff for a figurehead HC. And they got raises then in part based on the sudden shift in the market and the work they were doing between 2001 and 2003. But neither was ever a stand alone coordinator for some figurehead HC, either. As they have proven in multiple situations since.

 

[IllegalContact]

Yeah, you forgot "Kraft is cheap." That's one of the more popular whines.

this reasoning is a blind copout

I don't love this team any more now than I did when I was watching plunkett get killed and then having to go down to the stadium or up to new hampshire to watch the game when it was blacked out.

what we have had up until now is beautiful under belichick/kraft. even today.

I can tell you that long time fans have had little patience or opportunity for arrogance with the exception of the team under parcells and under belichick especially if they begin losing even more. aside from them, this organization was always humbled/humiliated

I guess the same blind love that fails to see anything questionable is the same thing that had me going to games in the 70's and 80's actually believing we were going to win every game.

 

[IllegalContact]

That's the killer of all whines. Like Kraft has anything much to say about how or how much the support staff in football ops is compensated. That's on Bill. And he is cheap in a way, but it's rooted in his belief that you have to prove you're worth it and earn your way up the ladder. Charlie and RAC weren't being underpaid in relation to the vast majority of coordinators until Snyder went on his binge hiring his resurrected legendary HC a team of coordinating minions who were former HC's being overcompensated to essentially serve as stand alone entities and a support staff for a figurehead HC. And they got raises then in part based on the sudden shift in the market and the work they were doing between 2001 and 2003. But neither was ever a stand alone coordinator for some figurehead HC, either. As they have proven in multiple situations since.

I don't think that argument was ever legit and never justified it with a response

 

[IllegalContact]

not in that manner, but it is hard to work the other side of the field (lloyd) into the scheme when the other primary piece is missing......he's always in shape, but missing all of training camp does not help and does hurt

the point was more about how few reps most of the starters got in training camp and what we see now could be a lack of preparation habit that has formed. some of the mistakes we saw this week are so far out of character when it comes to describing the attention to detail this team has always been acknowledge to employ

Welker didn't sit around in camp. Mediots keep harping on missed time. It was 24 hours to attend a funeral. Holding him out of much of the pre season had more to do with testing theories. Same deal with Branch. Josh was tweeking the offense via reinventing it. Then when the **** hit the fan it was a scramble to recover. They are lucky Welker is a hell of a scrambler. Been fighting his naysayers his entire life. But the whole offense is playing tight because things haven't turned out as planned out of the gate. Gronk isn't nearly himself due to injury or circumstance or whatever. Hernandez went down early and he was the centerpiece of Josh's reconfigured offense. Along with Edelman...who also went down somehow... And the OL remains a work in progress, in part needlessly although the level at which Mankins has returned isn't something they likely planned on (but should have). And that has likely exacerbated the transition to Solder, who seemed to be teetering on the brink of a sophomore slump out of the gate. They established they can run against teams who let them but still can't commit to being able to run the ball when they want to. Although they will still attempt to run the ball when they need to and paint themselves into a corner when they then fail.

They had a good thing going. All they lacked was a little better talent at RB, a viable outside the #'s WR threat, viable TE depth and a talent infusion in the front 7. They got all that and have somehow managed to overthink it. The players aren't executing consistently in part because their coaches have unnerved them. Particularly on offense.

 

[ralmat55]

Is Bill Belichick arrogant? Of course, he is. You can't be as successful as he's been without having a level of self-confidence that frequently seeps into arrogance. But, arrogance isn't the personailty trait of his that should concern us.

I've been a fan of Belichick's since he was the DC of the Giants. I wanted Kraft to hire him in 1997, and I practically kept a month-long vigil in January 2000 hoping he got out of his Jets contract to coach the Pats. But, while I'm not a psychologist in real life, I don't mind playing one on patsfans.com, it's obvious to me that Belichick is a little bit insecure and a whole lot of a control freak. This is what led to his downfall with the Browns, and it's been a huge hindrance to the Patriots reclaiming the glory of his first 5 years as HC of the NEP.

This is why Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Rob Ryan etc. were replaced by participants in the Bill Belichick Coaching Apprenticeship Program rather than experienced coaches or ones with playing experience. Why Dom Capers and Corwin Brown only lasted a season apiece coaching the much-maligned secondary. Hmmm! If I remember right, 2008 and 2010 were the only seasons of the last eight when dbs actually seemed to grow as players and exceed expectations (and turn their heads around).

So, we shouldn't criticize Josh McDaniels for not calling more run plays or Matt patricia for not calling more blitzes or Josh Boyer for corners playing blind 40 yards downfield because the receiver might cut off their route. The blame rests solely with the guy calling all the shots: Bill Belichick. The man most responsible for the Patriots being in contention every year is also the biggest impediment to them actually winning it all. An irony which is often frustrating for this fan to watch.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

not in that manner, but it is hard to work the other side of the field (lloyd) into the scheme when the other primary piece is missing......he's always in shape, but missing all of training camp does not help and does hurt

the point was more about how few reps most of the starters got in training camp and what we see now could be a lack of preparation habit that has formed. some of the mistakes we saw this week are so far out of character when it comes to describing the attention to detail this team has always been acknowledge to employ

He didn't miss any of training camp. It annoys the piss out of me that both fans and media keep perpetuating that misconception. He didn't do the all off season conditioning program with the team but that's just weights and conditioning for a couple of hours 3 or 4 days a week. Not an issue for that guy. And he couldn't attend until or unless he signed the tender and gave up all leverage. Which he did signing his tender on May 14th, 2 months ahead of the deadline most franchised players adhere to at minimum, and he reported to the first OTA on May 22 and attended all the OTA's and mini camps as well as the full training camp minus one excused absence to attend his uncle's funeral... It was the coaching staff's choice to limit him and Branch in pre season. They likely were testing their plan not to feature either in the reinvented offense.

 

[IllegalContact]

He didn't miss any of training camp. It annoys the piss out of me that both fans and media keep perpetuating that misconception. He didn't do the all off season conditioning program with the team but that's just weights and conditioning for a couple of hours 3 or 4 days a week. Not an issue for that guy. And he couldn't attend until or unless he signed the tender and gave up all leverage. Which he did signing his tender on May 14th, 2 months ahead of the deadline most franchised players adhere to at minimum, and he reported to the first OTA on May 22 and attended all the OTA's and mini camps as well as the full training camp minus one excused absence to attend his uncle's funeral... It was the coaching staff's choice to limit him and Branch in pre season. They likely were testing their plan not to feature either in the reinvented offense.

that's right.....I forgot

still my bigger point was the lack of prep by the starters during the preseason. not saying they should be out there for all of it, but I think there should have been more preseason prep

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Is Bill Belichick arrogant? Of course, he is. You can't be as successful as he's been without having a level of self-confidence that frequently seeps into arrogance. But, arrogance isn't the personailty trait of his that should concern us.

I've been a fan of Belichick's since he was the DC of the Giants. I wanted Kraft to hire him in 1997, and I practically kept a month-long vigil in January 2000 hoping he got out of his Jets contract to coach the Pats. But, while I'm not a psychologist in real life, I don't mind playing one on patsfans.com, it's obvious to me that Belichick is a little bit insecure and a whole lot of a control freak. This is what led to his downfall with the Browns, and it's been a huge hindrance to the Patriots reclaiming the glory of his first 5 years as HC of the NEP.

This is why Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, Rob Ryan etc. were replaced by participants in the Bill Belichick Coaching Apprenticeship Program rather than experienced coaches or ones with playing experience. Why Dom Capers and Corwin Brown only lasted a season apiece coaching the much-maligned secondary. Hmmm! If I remember right, 2008 and 2010 were the only seasons of the last eight when dbs actually seemed to grow as players and exceed expectations (and turn their heads around).

So, we shouldn't criticize Josh McDaniels for not calling more run plays or Matt patricia for not calling more blitzes or Josh Boyer for corners playing blind 40 yards downfield because the receiver might cut off their route. The blame rests solely with the guy calling all the shots: Bill Belichick. The man most responsible for the Patriots being in contention every year is also the biggest impediment to them actually winning it all. An irony which is often frustrating for this fan to watch.

Capers was thrown a lifeline after his multiple failures in Houston and Miami. He had almost no impact on the secondary in his year here much to the chagrin of those who felt he would clearly reconfigure it. Corwin Brown had mental issues that led to his dismissal. Other than that nail on the head. Bill giveth and Bill taketh away. It is what it is, and mostly it's been better than being saddled following any one of 31 alternative options.

 

[SyN65]

Yes, I believe he is arrogant. BUT, it's hard not to be when you've had as much success as him.

 

[BananaRepublican]

I hope that BB stays "arrogant" if that are the results that we can expect.

Arrogant and talented people always succeed at first, and then what happens is that their arrogance (which implies a fatal flaw) catches up to them. History is loaded with examples. Napoleon, John Gotti, Nixon, Mike Tyson, Lyle Alzedo - the most dominating people you could imagine.

Arrogance is not confidence. I really think a lot of football people confuse the two. Confidence doesn't need to mouth off or generate retaliation that will someday be its downfall.

 

[IllegalContact]

Arrogant and talented people always succeed at first, and then what happens is that their arrogance (which implies a fatal flaw) catches up to them. History is loaded with examples. Napoleon, John Gotti, Nixon, Mike Tyson, Lyle Alzedo - the most dominating people you could imagine.

Arrogance is not confidence. I really think a lot of football people confuse the two. Confidence doesn't need to mouth off or generate retaliation that will someday be its downfall.

arrogance runs hand in hand with the loss of appreciation for the work that it took to get there in the first place.

 

[Ring 6]

ignorance? as in somehow coming up with the notion that I said somewhere the play call is 'throw it deep'? you're in idiot, plain and simple

you're living in the past and are blind to the current differences as compared to past seasons. you're just simply ignoring them and deflecting by conjuring up moronic insinuations.

dude.....you don't know anything more than any other typical poster here....but feel free to tell yourself that you do.

brady unswisely took his first option on the pay to lloyd. period. the reasoning for that choice, we will never know, but the possibilities are relatively limited. eiteher

A - he actually thought lloyd was open, which would really put into question his vision and judgement
B - he sensed pressure that was not there

he had woodhead wide open on the same side of the field that was cleared out by lloyd a dump off would have produced 20 yards.

the simple fact that lloyd was double teamed and he still threw it meant that he decided when the ball was snapped. woodhead was in the same field of vision, so it makes it even more conclusive.

in short, brady forced it for no reason

your failure to recognize these things makes you really sound like you do not know what you are talking about

So you agree I am right, since what I was responding to was you saying it was a play calling issue, and you are now saying it was a bad decision by Brady.
Your comment that I objected to:

absolutely......the problem is that the playcalling combined with brady's lack of checking-off is exposing him even more. you have 1:14 to get into position for an FG and your first throw is a 30 yarder down the sideline to Lloyd.....this was never a call made with an ultimately successful team

Perhaps you should pay more attention to what you are saying instead of filling the pages with attempts to insult and attack me.
You may actually have something to say if you can get over the defensive posture that you need to demean people for pointing out flaws in your opinions. Of course, you will probably just choose to toss another insult at me, as if it accomplishes anything other than make you look stupid.