Is Bill Belichick "arrogant"? If so why?

[ausbacker]

I don't think BB is arrogant. I do think he's stubborn and stuck in his ways, but, as you point out, who can really argue with him, with all the success he's had? I wish I knew why his defenses no longer succeed. It seems every year he tries to load up in the secondary and every year (since 2007) we end up with a bunch of jags in the secondary, while other teams end up with studs. McCourty looked like he was going to be a star during his rookie year, and now he's a jag too. Why can't we get a pass rush year after year? Is it talent evaluation? Too many teams going after the same players? Bad assistant coaches? It's very frustrating to be almost at the top, but not quite there for the past 5 years and the clock ticking on Brady. Okay, now I've depressed myself....

When was the last time the Patriots designed an exotic defense to apply pressure to the opposing offense? It seems like the Pats are a straight up this is what we're going to show you, go after it.

 

[Ring 6]

When was the last time the Patriots designed an exotic defense to apply pressure to the opposing offense? It seems like the Pats are a straight up this is what we're going to show you, go after it.

You cant really believe that.

 

[IllegalContact]

This makes no sense.
First of all most play calls involve a deep route as part of the route combination.
No play call is 'throw it deep'. The coverage dictated the throw, and Brady felt it was open.
Secondly, with no time outs left, taking that shot makes a lot of sense. If he hits it they are almost already in FG range, and the clock becomes much less of an issue. To suggest you cannot overcome an incomplete pass and 5 seconds off the clock on first down is ridiculous.

blah blah freaking blah.......lloyd was not open...the coverage did not dictate that throw

how many shots did brady take against the rams in 2001? against the panthers?

the decision to throw deep is also affected by a lack of confidence in finding your check-offs

next time, at least try barking up the right tree if you're going to try to act like you know something

 

[IllegalContact]

When was the last time the Patriots designed an exotic defense to apply pressure to the opposing offense? It seems like the Pats are a straight up this is what we're going to show you, go after it.

I don't think the pats ever resorted to 'exotic' defenses.....the closest thing would be their dime packages with nobody with a hand on the ground, but that's not typical......the 3-4 was straight up with 7 in the box and a zone coverage. they just had guys who really knew their jobs well, and worked together well.

anything else that might be deemd exotic was probably only there to mask weakness

 

[IllegalContact]

You cant really believe that.

LOL......talk about bringing nothing to the table

 

[Tunescribe]

the decision to throw deep is also affected by a lack of confidence in finding your check-offs

 

[ausbacker]

You cant really believe that.

Provide an example of a game plan where the Patriots provided an exotic scheme to defeat the opponent in the past 3 seasons.

 

[ausbacker]

I don't think the pats ever resorted to 'exotic' defenses.....the closest thing would be their dime packages with nobody with a hand on the ground, but that's not typical......the 3-4 was straight up with 7 in the box and a zone coverage. they just had guys who really knew their jobs well, and worked together well.

anything else that might be deemd exotic was probably only there to mask weakness

I'm more concerned with the apparent lack of creativity on D IllegalContact.

 

[JoeSixPat]

That quote is actually Bum Phillips talking about Don Shula.

... And popularized for Patriots fans by Bill Parcells, which I thought was probably slightly more relevant for this board given what appears to be a lack of Bum Phillips fans around here (not to mention Don Shula)

 

[DarrylS]

When I read a post such as this sometimes I think I exist in a parallel universe... BB is arrogant, he has earned the right to be so. One of the most successful coaches in the NFL who has led this team to the superbowl 5 times..

He is also smart enough to know and see that changes will be necessary, or execution will need to improve if we are to get beyond the first round.

Maybe you had to have been there, but there were days in this franchise that instead of arrogance we had a long stretch of utter imcompetence.. there are faux pas, but every time this team takes the field his arrogance makes me believe that they can win that game..

 

[Observer]

I don't know about that... all the commentators are always saying how he is ahead of the curve. Maybe all secondaries will be crap in a few years. Then we can say we beat them to it. Kidding aside, when you compare the state of the offense to that of the defense, it does look like defense has been neglected in terms of innovation and priority.

 

[Ring 6]

... And popularized for Patriots fans by Bill Parcells, which I thought was probably slightly more relevant for this board given what appears to be a lack of Bum Phillips fans around here (not to mention Don Shula)

I think you are misremembering because I don't think Parcells ever uttered words such as your'n and his'n

 

[Ring 6]

blah blah freaking blah.......lloyd was not open...the coverage did not dictate that throw

how many shots did brady take against the rams in 2001? against the panthers?

the decision to throw deep is also affected by a lack of confidence in finding your check-offs

next time, at least try barking up the right tree if you're going to try to act like you know something

Typical ignorant reply to being called out for an ignorant post.
We can agree to disagree, leaving you thinking the play call is 'throw deep to Lloyd' and me being the only one of the 2 of us to recognize a pass play is a series of routes, where the QB reads the coverage and has progressions.

To suggest Brady lacks confidence in finding check downs is not only ignorant to what you should have viewed for the last 11 years of seeing him play, but also indicates that you really know how a pass play works and are just playing dumb to avoid admitting you are wrong.
Epic fail by you.

 

[PatsDeb]

When was the last time the Patriots designed an exotic defense to apply pressure to the opposing offense? It seems like the Pats are a straight up this is what we're going to show you, go after it.

But then they don't have the horses to carry it through. Why don't they have the horses? And why don't we have these exotic defenses any more? Is it because the players can't do it?

 

[Kontradiction]

I can see where some outside influences will think he's arrogant, but I don't. Belichick isn't arrogant. What he is is mistake prone. He's not infallible. This is due to the fact that he's human. Many of us have been saying exactly this over the years only to be met with "IBBWT" or "I trust Belichick more than anyone else". Yeah, I trust Belichick too. His coaching helped my favorite football team win three Super Bowls. But he's not above reproach nor is he above making mistakes.

 

[Jackson 2]

back to the OP

I used to think it was arrogance on the part of both BB and Brady, but I no longer do....at least not with Brady

I think there used to be a time when Brady worked harder on his game than any other QB, but these days I think he merely works at it as hard as the average. I don't blame him with all the other things he now has in his life, but it is what it is....the details and the patience just arent there.....I also think he's hearing voices/footsteps....I saw him duck when tehre was nobody there

I think there used to be a time when Belichick would prepare harder and in greater detail than any other coach in the league. Now, he may try as hard, but I can't see how he can get as much out of the bums he has around him now (scar and pepper notwithstanding) as he did when he had the best supporting cast in the league.

Well, well, well...if it isn't Mr. Coffee from NYYfans.com...busted!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When was the last time the Patriots designed an exotic defense to apply pressure to the opposing offense? It seems like the Pats are a straight up this is what we're going to show you, go after it.

Bill has the courage of his convictions (when it comes to roster selection/management and coaching ability) and can be stubborn to a fault when his teams struggle to deliver on them. His unwillingness to cut and run at the first signs of trouble are what many dub as arrogance. Although it's more often than not coaches who over react to criticism who end up known as former HC's. He's either unable or unwilling to get exotic on defense because of the relative age and inexperience of his roster. He lacks the experienced veteran presences he had to work with through 2008. Had to part with them due to the ever increasing speed of the game. Probably waited too long to and/or failed in some critical areas to select young talent who could develop into speedier replacements. Safety has really been his comeuppance moreso than corner or WR. Just can't find a field general who can do the thinking for the other 3-4 while also playing 50-60 snaps at a high level simultaneously. This team sucked in 2005 with Asante Samuel and Eugene Wilson, superbowl winning DB's starting.

The common denominator with 2012 was lack of a Rodney in the backfield. Now coupled with 2-3 rookies being heavily employed out of the gate. He knows they are talented and he sees them (much like Brady) as potentially better than their legendary predecessors and blossoming over the coming years. Just also is fearful of their lack of experience biting him and them in the ass. He's tried the compromise of plugging more savvy vets into the mix over the last half dozen years to plug gaps or set tone only to have them burn him for one reason or another (injury, knuckleheadedness).

At this juncture he seems determined to ride out the bumps in the road and stick with youth and coaching. The fact that some of the youth (Arrington, McCourty) may ultimately turn out to be high floor low ceiling is exacerbating the bumps.

 

[IllegalContact]

ignorance? as in somehow coming up with the notion that I said somewhere the play call is 'throw it deep'? you're in idiot, plain and simple

you're living in the past and are blind to the current differences as compared to past seasons. you're just simply ignoring them and deflecting by conjuring up moronic insinuations.

dude.....you don't know anything more than any other typical poster here....but feel free to tell yourself that you do.

brady unswisely took his first option on the pay to lloyd. period. the reasoning for that choice, we will never know, but the possibilities are relatively limited. eiteher

A - he actually thought lloyd was open, which would really put into question his vision and judgement
B - he sensed pressure that was not there

he had woodhead wide open on the same side of the field that was cleared out by lloyd a dump off would have produced 20 yards.

the simple fact that lloyd was double teamed and he still threw it meant that he decided when the ball was snapped. woodhead was in the same field of vision, so it makes it even more conclusive.

in short, brady forced it for no reason

your failure to recognize these things makes you really sound like you do not know what you are talking about

Typical ignorant reply to being called out for an ignorant post.
We can agree to disagree, leaving you thinking the play call is 'throw deep to Lloyd' and me being the only one of the 2 of us to recognize a pass play is a series of routes, where the QB reads the coverage and has progressions.

To suggest Brady lacks confidence in finding check downs is not only ignorant to what you should have viewed for the last 11 years of seeing him play, but also indicates that you really know how a pass play works and are just playing dumb to avoid admitting you are wrong.
Epic fail by you.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I can see where some outside influences will think he's arrogant, but I don't. Belichick isn't arrogant. What he is is mistake prone. He's not infallible. This is due to the fact that he's human. Many of us have been saying exactly this over the years only to be met with "IBBWT" or "I trust Belichick more than anyone else". Yeah, I trust Belichick too. His coaching helped my favorite football team win three Super Bowls. But he's not above reproach nor is he above making mistakes.

I don't think he's mistake prone so much as stubbornly determined to do it his way because he assumes if they execute consistently it will work. But they never quite execute perfectly and to assume that they can and will is folly. Have to have plan B and even Plan C ready. I think moreso on offense they really fugged up this offseason. I think they envisioned that unit as a juggernaut even absent WR depth. One a returning fast track genius like Josh could maximize in unique ways... Only his two shiny new TE's have struggled out of the gate. As have all 26 of their third and fourth option alternatives. And his truly secret weapon hasn't had the kind of regular season his off season reportedly led them to believe he would. And his OL has been more inconsistent and more of a work in progress than he anticipated absent the likes of Waters, Light and even Koppen. And his RB unit hasn't quite emerged. He's being forced to rely more heavily on two guys he probably wasn't anticipating being a huge part of any plan. Two guys who are playing in contract years.

It's a lot to deal with in addition to a developing young defense he is reluctant to overload given the fact that his secondary is again struggling to even compete consistently. When he's frustrated like that he does make in game mistakes. As do his minions who are reflections of his mindset.

They are probably going to eviscerate the JETS Sunday due to sheer force of pissed off will. Although if they don't, watch out - they may be in real deep doo doo of the variety you can't scheme out of for once. But whatever happens, this edition of the NEP simply isn't there yet. Over reliance on offense may not be able to carry the day. Because he has failed again to find the correct balance between youthful talent and savvy experience to have the capacity to scheme around any roster limitations or shortcomings. And on some level you do sense for once he got ahead of himself and let a future vision cloud his focus on the present. That's very uncharacteristic and one mistake you could make a case for terming arrogance. He thought he had this season covered one way or the other, and it's looking like he possibly assumed facts not in evidence...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

ignorance? as in somehow coming up with the notion that I said somewhere the play call is 'throw it deep'? you're in idiot, plain and simple

you're living in the past and are blind to the current differences as compared to past seasons. you're just simply ignoring them and deflecting by conjuring up moronic insinuations.

dude.....you don't know anything more than any other typical poster here....but feel free to tell yourself that you do.

brady unswisely took his first option on the pay to lloyd. period. the reasoning for that choice, we will never know, but the possibilities are relatively limited. eiteher

A - he actually thought lloyd was open, which would really put into question his vision and judgement
B - he sensed pressure that was not there

he had woodhead wide open on the same side of the field that was cleared out by lloyd a dump off would have produced 20 yards.

the simple fact that lloyd was double teamed and he still threw it meant that he decided when the ball was snapped. woodhead was in the same field of vision, so it makes it even more conclusive.

in short, brady forced it for no reason

your failure to recognize these things makes you really sound like you do not know what you are talking about

Lloyd is hardly ever open. That's not his game. In fact he's more likely to muff a catch or go to ground inexplicably when he's open. His game is beating coverage on contested balls. It's taken Brady some time to even begin to trust that. But he's being coached to and conditioned to by the receiver.