Wes Freagin' Welker

[ctpatsfan77]

I don't see what that has to do with the fact that the team was willing to pay big coin for Thomas but, beyond the franchise tag, is refusing to do that for it's best non-Brady offensive player.

My point is that it was far enough in the past that you can't really argue that it was a case of paying someone else while "refusing to" pay Welker.

Heck, you could make an argument that Thomas' spectacular failure is part of the reason the Pats are hesitant to commit to Welker.

 

[mgteich]

A 3-year deal after 2010 would have resulted with Welker getting well-paid for 2011, 2012 and 2013 with the patriots taking the injury risk. The patriots have paid Welker for 2011 and 2012. We can franchise him for 2013 and Welker will have gotten a bit more than a 3-year deal, with the patriots paying a bit of a premium for Welker taking that risk. Welker want over $20M guaranteed after 2011. The patriots chose a one year at a time guarantee.

I don't see what the patriots have lost in 2011, 2012 and 2013.

The "big" issue is 2014 and beyond. The patriots chose to focus on Gronkowski and Hernandez in those out years. Was the front office wrong in making that choice? Perhaps, the patriots will be able to work out a deal with Welker after this season. This sticking point is again likely to be the amount of guaranteed money.

I have no problem with Brady, Welker, Wilfork, Mankins and Mayo being our top cap hits.

They could have given Welker a proper deal after 2010. They could have given him a proper deal after 2011. Long term had nothing to do with it, and a 3 year deal wouldn't have brought about cap issues.

It's embarrassing to see just how many people bow to the company line about all the wrong things around here.

 

[Banjo]

Brady's passing yards will go downhill with Welker. Thus, less points!! Welker is without a doubt the best receiver on the Patriots. There is no replacing him. He deserves a three year deal, at least

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They could have given Welker a proper deal after 2010. They could have given him a proper deal after 2011. Long term had nothing to do with it, and a 3 year deal wouldn't have brought about cap issues.

It's embarrassing to see just how many people bow to the company line about all the wrong things around here.

I won't argue 2011, because I agree with you on that, but between (A) Welker's ACL injury, (B) Welker's disappointing-by-Welker-standards 2010 season, (C) the lockout, and (D) Welker and his agent not wanting to negotiate in season, the chances of a long-term deal getting done between January 2010 and December 2011 were remote at best.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Heck, you could make an argument that Thomas' spectacular failure is part of the reason the Pats are hesitant to commit to Welker.

That doesn't make sense.
Adalius Thomas was signed for big money before he ever played a down for the Patriots.
Wesley Welker has produced like a NFL overall-top-3 receiver every year since 2007, he's a sure thing aside from age.

 

[The Gr8est]

Put the crack pipe down.

Please don't feed the ***clowns!

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That doesn't make sense.
Adalius Thomas was signed for big money before he ever played a down for the Patriots.
Wesley Welker has produced like a NFL overall-top-3 receiver every year since 2007, he's a sure thing aside from age.

Welker will eventually hit a wall; as someone put it, Father Time eventually catches up with everyone.

I think the Patriots are just scared of the possibility that they will hand him a big contract and then have him hit the wall in the first year. The Patriots got lucky with Thomas in that the uncapped year let them dump his contract with the rest of his signing bonus vanishing into the ether; if such a thing happened with Welker, they'd be stuck with whatever guaranteed money they paid him.

As I said at some point in the offseason, though, if I were GM of the Patriots, I'd take the plunge anyways: short of them giving him sick money (e.g., $50M for three years), there is no way they will have overpaid Welker over his entire tenure as a Patriot.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Welker is just absolutely amazing.

After getting completely obliterated he comes back a few plays later.

Sure, he's a slot receiver but his TD yesterday also showed his ability to make difficult deep catches as well.

Four 100 yards games in the six that he's played. The other two, week 1 against Tennessee and week 2 vs. Arizona (when he had 95 yards).

When they were intent on freezing him out in favor of Edelman and Hernandez...

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

That doesn't make sense.
Adalius Thomas was signed for big money before he ever played a down for the Patriots.
Wesley Welker has produced like a NFL overall-top-3 receiver every year since 2007, he's a sure thing aside from age.

And the bolded part above is the key issue. If Welker was 28 instead of 31 I'm sure he'd be playing under a long term deal.

 

[condon84]

When they were intent on freezing him out in favor of Edelman and Hernandez...

Just curious, did you think they (coaches, BB) were freezing Welker out? Or do you believe that Edelman really beat him out?

 

[The Gr8est]

Re: Wes Welker

Someone please teach me the ignore feature. This dumbass shiats up the game threads everyweek.

1) Select “User CP”
2) Under “Settings & Options” select “Edit Ignore List”
3) In the “Add a Member to Your List…” box, enter the name of the user to ignore. Be sure to spell it exactly as it appears.
4) Click “Okay”


And also, please remember that quoting an ***clown like this one shows his drivel to those of us who already have him on ignore.

Don't quote these guys and they'll starve from neglect. Average IQ on this site increases.

Profit


:rocker:

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

WW did what WW does yesterday, but I'm not sure that it has any bearing on the arguments that the contract discussions circled around. I'm also not sure how true the statement "Welker IS that guy, IS that receiver that moves the chains when they need him" is when he was targeted 3 times in the 4th, all on third downs, 0 were converted, and one resulted in an INT. If we used the same metric to measure WW's performance as some do the defense he'd be a bum that can't come up with a big play when it matters...

I'd understand a simple appreciation thread because he had a great game. It's truly awesome to watch him out there, and as you said he was one of the few bright spots for the game. I just don't understand the need to use this performance to stir up the bees nest that is the WW contract discussion.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Just curious, did you think they (coaches, BB) were freezing Welker out? Or do you believe that Edelman really beat him out?

Personally, I don't think they were trying to phase him out, so much as simply not overuse him (in 2007, when he was as effective late in the year as in the beginning, he played about 75% of snaps; last year, when his effectiveness dropped late in the year, he was playing around 90%).

In any case, we won't know for sure until both Edelman and Hernandez are both active.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Welker will eventually hit a wall; as someone put it, Father Time eventually catches up with everyone.

I think the Patriots are just scared of the possibility that they will hand him a big contract and then have him hit the wall in the first year. The Patriots got lucky with Thomas in that the uncapped year let them dump his contract with the rest of his signing bonus vanishing into the ether; if such a thing happened with Welker, they'd be stuck with whatever guaranteed money they paid him.

They should have been as concerned about the deals they inked with Gronkowski, Hernandez and Mankins instead of obcessing about short term deals for a fraction to half the cost or committment involved in retaining Waters through his final contractual season and extending Welker for 3 years. It's making mistakes on long term perception that puts teams in a bind. Short term committments to wildly productive established veterans don't tend to hurt you nearly as much. This team used to be pretty adept at balancing the need to perform in the present with the ideal of being in position to perform long term. Increasingly over the last 4-5 seasons, not so much. First they were unwilling to pay the price in the present to develop the future. Now they seem unwilling to pay the price to succeed in the present in order to facilitate potential future development.

 

[Deus Irae]

My point is that it was far enough in the past that you can't really argue that it was a case of paying someone else while "refusing to" pay Welker.

And my point was that they were doing it. The date is irrelevant.

Heck, you could make an argument that Thomas' spectacular failure is part of the reason the Pats are hesitant to commit to Welker.

No, you can't, because they've given out big paydays since. Also, Welker is a known quantity, while the trades/FAs are not. There's really no excuse for the way the Patriots have treated several of their top players. It's not just Welker, after all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Welker is making $8MM to play football this year. There is nothing improper about that wage!

That's on the franchise tag. It's not on a negotiated deal. The difference should be pretty obvious.

 

[Deus Irae]

I won't argue 2011, because I agree with you on that, but between (A) Welker's ACL injury, (B) Welker's disappointing-by-Welker-standards 2010 season, (C) the lockout, and (D) Welker and his agent not wanting to negotiate in season, the chances of a long-term deal getting done between January 2010 and December 2011 were remote at best.

Deals were done all over the league, and Welker's ACL issue was obviously in the past at that point.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

That's on the franchise tag. It's not on a negotiated deal. The difference should be pretty obvious.

Negotiated or not Wes is getting paid proper money.

 

[Kid~Brady]

Negotiated or not Wes is getting paid proper money.

Yeah but there's no assurance with a franchise tag, yet another reason why Welker wants a deal and deserves a deal. He's taken this franchise to great heights, he should be compensated for this.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Deals were done all over the league, and Welker's ACL issue was obviously in the past at that point.

And how do you think the Patriots would have paid Welker if he agreed to a contract in 2011, based on his performance in 2010, relative to 2009?